BoyGlock Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Hello, Have 2 glock 17s in Open set up: KKM barrel, SJC 11-port comp, Carver Mount, 165 IPSC Maj 9mm load, etc. Last count on red dots gone: 2 sts, 2 micros, 1 slideride. Time = 8.5 months of low volume shooting (200-400 rnds/week) Last Sunday the slide ride went off and on in the middle of a long 32rnd cof in a match. Next stage, I had the other G17 reserve w/ a brand new Micro direct from Aimpoint Sweden. I posted somewhere in this forum Aimpoint replaced my Micro that went pffft w/ a new one and its this one. 2 shots after the draw, dot went out! Round count is less than 50 including zeroing the dot. Next stage I went w/ the sliderided Glock, again the dot went off and on. Finished the match at the bottom. But what bothers me is how these types of red dot sights failing at an unreasonably fast rate. Is it the plastic framed gun or is it the sight? Are there similar situations out there but chose to suffer in silence? After the numbers, I dont think its luck or coincidence. I've had a number of posts here regarding red dots not lasting long enough. Do you think they were unreasonable now? Hope to hear and solve this mistery from knowledgable Open guys here. Tia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLM Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 I know of a shooter with a Trijicon RMR melted into the slide on a custom SV 9mm open gun. So far in just over a year he has had SIX die. I'd think the C-More on the frame mount would be the most durable. They usually last 10's if not 100's of thousands of rounds mounted that way. What mount do you have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Braxton1 Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 There is a LOT of g forces at play here, especially on the "slide ride" guns. Back in the 80s, we used to build "softball" guns for Bullseye shooters that had a relatively heavy extended eye relief scope mounted on a Weaver base that was drilled-and-tapped into the slide. It worked WELL. There were a few things that helped it work: light 185 grain 45 loads, a big heavy slide, a big heavy scope, light recoil springs, and the fact that we really didn't give a darn about how the gun "felt" in recoil. Being able to crank off shot #2 in 0.18 seconds was not a consideration.... These guns (and their optics) lasted forever! With "slide-ride" IPSC guns, we have super-light optics with little to no weight added for the mounting system, riding on a slide that has effectively been lightened by the huge cuts made in it for the mount, hot ammo, and sprung "lighter than it should be" to control how it feels during recoil. All of those things equal "low inertia" and very high slide speeds. The slide starts, stops, and changes directions instantly!!! All of this adds up to major g-loading on the optics. Odds of them lasting are certainly against them.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyGlock Posted September 18, 2012 Author Share Posted September 18, 2012 All those optics were on Carver frame mount as stated in the OP. Recoil spring 13-15# Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyGlock Posted September 18, 2012 Author Share Posted September 18, 2012 (edited) The slideride mentioned refers to CMore slideride model mounted on a carver frame mount. Edited September 18, 2012 by BoyGlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hi-Power Jack Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Tia, I have over 20,000 rounds on each of my STI TruBors which have the standard C-More and standard upright mounts, and they're both in fine shape (they were yesterday, anyway). No problem in five years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glockman1000 Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Wow, that sucks BoyGlock. I have no idea what might be going on but I do hope you find some kind of resolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noximus03 Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Have you emailed Bobby Carver about this? That would be my 1st suggestion. I'm certain he can offer some answers and get this resolved for you. I've never heard of a mounted sight going out with this kind of frequency. I've got over 20k through my Carver and my sight is still spot on at 20 yds. Hope you get this ironed out, bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glockman1000 Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 BoyGlock, is there any telltale signs on the bottom of the mount? Possibly the slide making contact with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyGlock Posted September 18, 2012 Author Share Posted September 18, 2012 (edited) Thanks for all your inputs. I have not thought of talking to Bobby about it as I dont have any reason to suspect the Carver mount causing the problem. Theres nothing under the rail of the mount that evidenced the slide banging on it. But for his extensive knowledge and for other possibilities, I think should. It never crossed my mind until your posts. While the STS's and the Micros were on a competiton model, the slideride is on a hunter model of the Carver w/c is higher from the slide. At this point I wanted to think the recoil of a glock is more than the optics could handle. 98% of my ammo is IPSC Major. I shoot minor only when I develop a new load recipe. But I havent heard or read something like this or similar happened w/ the Glock recoil as possible culprit. On the other hand, even if this so, the new Micro should last more than just 50 rounds w/c also made the Micro suspect. The first one lasted about just a few thousand rounds, about 2-3k or less. My second STS w/c I bought after the first one went out lasted only about 1,000+ rnds iirc. I have not yet used the new replacement unit (3rd one) aside from zeroing it on the reserve gun. When the new Micro arrived, I mounted it in place of my STS#3. But as a reserve gun, I very seldom use it live firing. W/ the new Micro, I use it extensively in dry fire. The main gun I use in live fire has the CMore slideride. Eta: so of all these optics, the slideride has the most mileage. About 4k. Edited September 18, 2012 by BoyGlock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Which bullet & which powder are your shooting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyGlock Posted September 18, 2012 Author Share Posted September 18, 2012 Which bullet & which powder are your shooting? 125gr bullets, n350, 3n37 powders. Vv powder is the only option for comped guns here in my place. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glockman1000 Posted September 18, 2012 Share Posted September 18, 2012 Hopefully Bobby Carver can help, I've spoken to him over the phone when I was asking a few questions about his products & he was very patient with all my questions. Great guy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyGlock Posted September 18, 2012 Author Share Posted September 18, 2012 Hopefully Bobby Carver can help, I've spoken to him over the phone when I was asking a few questions about his products & he was very patient with all my questions. Great guy! Agree. I've communicated w/ him thru emails several times in the past and I never felt I was left hanging out w/ a problem. He was always willing to help even if it were not his products anymore that were the solution to my problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atmar Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 sir what if you switched to a slower burning powder like 3n38.....just a suggestion andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBore56 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I am setting up my new Glock 34 with a Carter Competition mount, and putting a Trijicon RMR on it. Time will tell how it stands up, but I figured the RMR would not take the beating on the frame mount verses bolting it to the slide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyGlock Posted September 19, 2012 Author Share Posted September 19, 2012 sir what if you switched to a slower burning powder like 3n38.....just a suggestion andrew I dunno if that would make a compressed load. As much as possible Im avoiding compressing powders in the shell. 3n37 is almost at 7.3gr. Thanks kabayan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetback Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 The problem with slide mounted micro (red) dots DOCTER,FAST FIRE,STS,RTS,RMR,etc,etc,etc is : All have mechanical switches (on/off) that the manufactures use that are not sturdy enough for the the abuse we put them through. Switces are not BULLET PROOFED enough to stand up to the G forces we submit them too, no matter what the manufacturers say. With a solid state electronics package like LEUPOLD DELTAPOINT uses with no moving parts to shake loose, and progammamble auto brightness technology they could stand up to the G forces. Even when AIMPOINT and TASCO come out with there red DOT tubes back in the day they were breaking a lot of switches. A shooter in the west cost named DOCTER DOT made a good business out of BULLET PROOFING Aimpoints. This is a learning curve for MICRO RED DOT developement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
synergy Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 The problem with slide mounted micro (red) dots DOCTER,FAST FIRE,STS,RTS,RMR,etc,etc,etc is : All have mechanical switches (on/off) that the manufactures use that are not sturdy enough for the the abuse we put them through. Switces are not BULLET PROOFED enough to stand up to the G forces we submit them too, no matter what the manufacturers say. With a solid state electronics package like LEUPOLD DELTAPOINT uses with no moving parts to shake loose, and progammamble auto brightness technology they could stand up to the G forces. Even when AIMPOINT and TASCO come out with there red DOT tubes back in the day they were breaking a lot of switches. A shooter in the west cost named DOCTER DOT made a good business out of BULLET PROOFING Aimpoints. This is a learning curve for MICRO RED DOT developement. The RM02 doesn't have an on/off switch... it functions like the Deltapoint. Are guys still breaking the 02's on open guns? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyGlock Posted September 21, 2012 Author Share Posted September 21, 2012 Update: On my CMore Slideride, I repeatedly inspected it for the nth time w/ magnifying glass w/o disassembling its main body. I saw very tiny corrosion on the battery connections, sanded and cleaned them, noticed the plating was easily removed. Tested it yesterday for 100rnds and the dot stayed on. If it was only the problem I wish CMore would have a better plating on these parts. This sight is not cheap, it deserved better than just any type of plating. And save us a lot of headache! On the Aimpoint Micro, in my frustration I gave it a strong whack w/ my palm and the dot went on! But after some shots it went off again. After some trial and error, I found that if I turn the battery cover extra, extra tight, the dot stays on. At least in the 200+ rnds I shot w/ it yesterday. My other micro did not have this peculiarity. The rubber pieces attached to the batt cover are all intact. I also noticed that its battery contact points are plated in what looked like gold W/c I think resists corrosion best. A + factor for Aimpoint. I decided to make this pistol my main gun to test its long term reliability. And hope for the best. Thanks for all your inputs. But Im far from having enough confidence on them yet, too early to tell. Been bitten lots of times... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glockman1000 Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 Glad you got them working! Hopefully they will stand up to the job with some of the tweaks you did! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kyojin Posted September 23, 2012 Share Posted September 23, 2012 I had a Leupold Deltapoint on my G17 mounted on an SJC microdot mount. It worked great and did not get beat up. Looks basically brand new. That was shooing 9 major with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoyGlock Posted September 28, 2012 Author Share Posted September 28, 2012 My Micro dotted shooting is shorlived. After 900+ 9maj rnds the dot dissappeared again and looked like wont be coming back. Back to wondering again if its the gun or them red dots? Im w/ CMore slideride again and hoping for the best. I never expected shooting open is this stressful... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EkuJustice Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Never seen frame mounted dots die near as much as your getting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sb3 Posted October 3, 2012 Share Posted October 3, 2012 I have a slide mounted deltapoint on an open glock 17 with approximately 7000 rounds on it with 0 issues. I have run the deltapoints on 12ga shotguns as well. Very happy with the product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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