M&P VTAC II

[Sig Shooter]

If you could pick one up for the right price what are everyones thoughts on using this in 3 gun? Add a comp and it should be ready to go and at 6.28 pounds it is light.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product4_750001_750051_802551_-1_757785_757784_757784_ProductDisplayErrorView_Y

Features & Benefits

•Mid-Length System

- Results in lower recoil and better accuracy providing higher 2nd shot hit probability

•16” Barrel

- 1 in 8” twist

- 4150 CMV Steel

- 5R Rifling

- Melonite® Finish

•Chromed-Lined Bolt Carrier and Gas Key

•VTAC®/Troy™ 13” Extreme TRX Hand Guard

- Two 2” Adjustable Picatinny-Style Rails

- Improved shooting ergonomics

- Reduced heat transfer and quicker target acquisition with this free-floating rail

- Extremely light weight and rigid allowing quicker target-to-target transitions

•Patent-Pending, Smith & Wesson Enhanced Flash Hider

- Reduces flash signature significantly

- Directs gases and sound forward and away from the shooters

- Eliminates secondary flash/streak

•Geissele® Super V Trigger

- Quick reset

- Light trigger

- No set screws to come loose when cleaning or firing

•VTAC® Wide, Padded 2-Point Tactical Sling

•VLTOR™ IMod 6-Position, Collapsible Stock

•VTAC® Light Mount

•VTAC® LPSM Low Profile Sling Mount

•30 Round PMAG® Magazine

[glock34shooter]

Are you looking for a dedicated game gun? If so it will work but probably not the best choice. It has a light weight barrel which is not the best choice for a game gun IMHO. If you do buy one for a game gun then you would want to find a different muzzle device.

Matt

[Marv Z]

For that kind of money, go with a JP-15 I've seen them for around $1500. Much better rifle.

Edited September 2, 2012 by Marv Z

[Sleepswithdogs]

Reads like a good rifle, but as Marv Z has said, the JP is a known product, quality every single piece. I think (jmho) you could get the Smith and have a very good gun, and if it rocks your boat, pick one up. But do check out the JP, Colt, Stag, and give Thunderbird and Loki a look see too. People like Thunderbird, JP, Loki, are making some really class equipment, none of it made in a hurry and all of it made to be top 3 gun stuff.

Tar

[Dan Sierpina]

Reads like a good rifle, but as Marv Z has said, the JP is a known product, quality every single piece. I think (jmho) you could get the Smith and have a very good gun, and if it rocks your boat, pick one up. But do check out the JP, Colt, Stag, and give Thunderbird and Loki a look see too. People like Thunderbird, JP, Loki, are making some really class equipment, none of it made in a hurry and all of it made to be top 3 gun stuff.

Tar

Do you mean Firebird?

[landshark45]

Reads like a good rifle, but as Marv Z has said, the JP is a known product, quality every single piece. I think (jmho) you could get the Smith and have a very good gun, and if it rocks your boat, pick one up. But do check out the JP, Colt, Stag, and give Thunderbird and Loki a look see too. People like Thunderbird, JP, Loki, are making some really class equipment, none of it made in a hurry and all of it made to be top 3 gun stuff.

Tar

Do you mean Firebird?

He really meant rooster chicken.

[Sleepswithdogs]

Yes, watching "Into The West." Meant the clan of the flaming chicken (Firebird)

Edited September 3, 2012 by Sleepswithdogs

[Sig Shooter]

Reads like a good rifle, but as Marv Z has said, the JP is a known product, quality every single piece. I think (jmho) you could get the Smith and have a very good gun, and if it rocks your boat, pick one up. But do check out the JP, Colt, Stag, and give Thunderbird and Loki a look see too. People like Thunderbird, JP, Loki, are making some really class equipment, none of it made in a hurry and all of it made to be top 3 gun stuff.

Tar

I can pick one up for around $1300.00 on a buddy deal, I think I might give one a try and throw a TAC 30 on it. I love my Sig 556 but it is a little heavy and I think it slows me down driving from one target to the next.

Edited September 3, 2012 by Sig Shooter

[carbon9]

Maybe everybody is trying to be polite and guide you subtly with their suggestions. To be blunt the M&P isn't going to shoot even close to what a JP, Firebird or Loki will even if they were configured the same. I am not talking accuracy but the way the whole firearm feels and functions. There is a difference in solidity and unity the top tier builds have. There are some small builders who can achieve the same thing but JP, Firebird, Loki and I'm sure some of the others mentioned achieve this oneness on a regular basis with resale value to boot. Until you fire one you will not grasp what everybody is telling you. Hence the reason I believe you asked for opinions. Getting a good deal is only nice if it is exactly what you want. I hate using the wrong tool for the job even if it cost me less.

[Marv Z]

For that amount, you can get a Stag 3g or DPMS 3G-1. either one is better configured than that M&P. Don't ask for advice if your mind is already made up. I have a M&P carbine like that, and it's not set up for this type of competition.

[Sig Shooter]

For that amount, you can get a Stag 3g or DPMS 3G-1. either one is better configured than that M&P. Don't ask for advice if your mind is already made up. I have a M&P carbine like that, and it's not set up for this type of competition.

Other than not having a comp (which from what I have read needs to be replaced on the Stag 3g) how are they configured different? I know the Stag and DPMS us a rifle length gas system vs a mid length system on the VTAC II but it should have less felt recoil than a carbine. Plus I could have it this week and most others have been on back order for a few months unless you want to pay the scalper price on Gun Brokers.

Maybe I am missing something but they seem very close as far as the configuration goes.

[mjohn]

What makes the VTAC II different from the original VTAC? When was the original VTAC discontinued?

[Marv Z]

18" barrel on the Stag and DPMS. Will stabilize heavier bullets for long range shooting. A lot of 3 gun matches will shoot out to 300-500 yds now. Good luck with your purchase. A quick check of Gunbroker shows 5-6 DPMS's available with pricing as low as $1099 with no CCfees and $25 shipping. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=304378135#PIC

Edited September 3, 2012 by Marv Z

[Sleepswithdogs]

Sig Shooter, of course the other side of that coin is, if you like it, if you want it, buy it. Lot to be said for having faith in your equipment. You're getting it at such a good price you can always sell it, probably make a few bucks if you decide you'd rather have something else later on down the road.

As far as the comp/brake goes, many 3gun people have a drawer full of them, and have tried nearly every one on the market and are still waiting for the new, shorter, lighter ones to come out so they can give those a try. So changing out one to something you like better is just par for the course.

Have fun, try something different if you have a mind to, it's not like this is the only 3gun rifle your every going to get to buy.

Tar

Edited September 3, 2012 by Sleepswithdogs

[DocMedic]

While the Big "brand" name may seem enticing for a first time rifle buyer, its really not all that is cracked up to be. In reality there's no real advantage of choosing one rifle over another, it really depends on what your style is. But heres are a couple of concerns for this rifle at least for me.

5R rifling is just a fancy way to say 5 groove, most match barrels I know of specially from Wilson are 6 groove. 5 groove barrels supposedly provide better accuracy because it has less contact on the bullet, is it true? I haven't seen it, but you're paying more money for it.

Last VTAC S&W had a PINNED flash hider. While I don't see anything that says the VTAC-II is pinned, I wouldn't put it past them.

Meloniting, I have one barrel that is melonited, and several that are SS. Whats the differences? I can't tell, but you're paying for it.

16 inch barrel, Some people get bent out of shape on this non-issue. I'm noticing even in my short 3gun career that a lot of matches are bringing targets back in from 500+yards down to 200-300yards. You don't lose any accuracy in going to a shorter barrel (in fact you gain accuracy) but what you do lose is velocity (and recoil impulse is different, but that's way over my head). I own a 16.5, 18, and 20inch barrel, I prefer my 18inch just because it balance real nice, and offers the best compromise of weight and swing speed for most matches I attend. Last year at a local tact rifle match we had a LaRue set up at 300yards, Unless you hit the top 1/3 of the target with the 16inch barrel loaded with 55gr bullets, it didn't knock down the strike plate, It was a none issue with the same load out of my 18 inch gun. Last year I know there was at least one major match that lost of "umph" had impact on RO's calling hit on Long range targets. Most matches require a flag to flash in order to call a hit, hitting the target isn't always enough.

Another thing that has bothered me is S&W has kinda went south on sponsoring any matches the last couple of years. Maybe it just were I'm located at but when I first started, you saw S&W sponsoring everything it didn't matter what the event was they did some type of sponsoring. This year? I haven't seen one thing sponsored by S&W, again it's just probably me but I would rather go buy a product of similar or better quality from a company that is active in our sport. This might not be your opinion but it influences on what I buy.

That just my 2 cents.

Edited September 3, 2012 by DocMedic

[Sgtsvi]

I think the difference between the VTAC and the VTAC II is the trigger. The first ones came with JP triggers and the new ones have the geisselle triggers. If I were going to drop $1200 on a rifle for 3 gun I would buy the Stag or DPMS. All of my rifles are JP's and I know they are more expensive but the quality is there along with resale value if you ever decided to move it.

[Sig Shooter]

Sig Shooter, of course the other side of that coin is, if you like it, if you want it, buy it. Lot to be said for having faith in your equipment. You're getting it at such a good price you can always sell it, probably make a few bucks if you decide you'd rather have something else later on down the road.

As far as the comp/brake goes, many 3gun people have a drawer full of them, and have tried nearly every one on the market and are still waiting for the new, shorter, lighter ones to come out so they can give those a try. So changing out one to something you like better is just par for the course.

Have fun, try something different if you have a mind to, it's not like this is the only 3gun rifle your every going to get to buy.

Tar

Thanks for the input, I think I will pick one up tomorrow and put the Miculek comp on it that I tried on my Sig 556 (I ended up keeping a Titan comp on the 556). I am wanting to lose some weight and the Vtac II is almost 1.5 pounds lighter than the DPMS. Plus the 1 in 8 twist should work well with the 69 grain bullets I load. Like you said at that price if it does not work well for me I could add it to the collection or sell it and get my money back.

[caspian guy]

I think the first gen Vtac rifles had carbine length gas, I think the new ones are mid-length. I didn't like the particular geisselle trigger in the one I handled as well as the JP triggers in the older Vtac rifles, but that's personal preference. I didn't notice if the flashhider was pinned on (if it was that'd be a deal breaker for me). All in all it seemed like a solid workable rifle

and I doubt it would hold you back. What matters is do you like it? If so buy it, shoot the crap out of it, and tell us what you think.

[1911vm]

I tried s&w vtac and jp vtac side by side. I now have a JP Vtac . Actually a got a JP vtac upper. Very happy

Edited September 4, 2012 by 1911vm

[Sig Shooter]

I went ahead and picked one up and put a Tac 30 on it and headed to the range after a little cleaning and inspection. Zero play betweeen the upper and lower, much better fit than the Bushmaster and RRA Elite I have had in the past. With the optics mounted it is very light and well balanced. It came with some nice quick release sling mounts, padded Vtac sling, a lightweight flashlight mount and some P Mags (no window).

Range time, trigger = WOW, by far the best trigger I have had a chance to use in an AR. There is no takeup with ,it has zero creep and is very smooth.

Accuracy = after about 25 rounds I had it grouping 3/4 inch at 50 yards from a rest with Aguila 55 grain ammo . I has knocking around golf balls at 50 yards with no problem then shot some 8 inch Shoot n Sees at 100 and 200 yards offhand. 5 shots in each was no problem.

I used the regular Vtac sling on my last 3 gun rifle and did not know what I was missing untill I tried the padded one that came with the Vtac. Overall I am happy with the rifle and I think after adding a comp it should be more than competative.

[Sleepswithdogs]

Sounds like you found a winner! Congratulations.

Best to'ya,

Tar