Butterseviltwin Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 (edited) Hi! I have been having some issues with getting my shots off as quickly as I should be. There are two issues that I have found while dry firing, which occur during the draw. Both are during the part where {a} the pistol meets the hands at the chest to {b} the point where the gun is fully extended with proper sight alignment. The first issue is that my weak/secondary hand is not always getting a constant grip on the gun quickly, often causing a sort of struggle to catch up during the outward movement of the gun. I put my support hand palm on my chest, on the pectoral muscle, with the fingers extending out to receive the gun. If anyone has any suggestions to get a constant grip with the secondary hand during a draw, that would be great. Secondly, it takes too long to get a proper sight picture after the gun is extended out, during the draw. Therefore, I am looking for any tips or techniques for increasing the aiming speed, with a pistol. Basically I want to set myself up so that I only need to make small adjustments, with the front sight, after the gun is extended. I have been looking into the subject and have not found much, besides some brief mentioning about finding your of Natural Point of Aim. Also in case your are wondering, while I have shot in a competition once (with horrible results), I am not a competition shooter. Thanks Edited August 3, 2012 by Butterseviltwin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgood Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 The shortest distance between two points is a straight line. You're bringing the gun up to chest level and then straight out. Try putting your support hand on your belly and meeting the gun there. That will give you more time to establish the grip with the weak hand and also allow the gun to take a more diagonal path to the shooting position. Bring it up to the line of sight about 3-6 inches short of where it'll be when you shoot, then punch it straight out the last 3-6 in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MTSCMike Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Secondly, it takes too long to get a proper sight picture after the gun is extended out, during the draw. Therefore, I am looking for any tips or techniques for increasing the aiming speed, with a pistol. Basically I want to set myself up so that I only need to make small adjustments, with the front sight, after the gun is extended. I have been looking into the subject and have not found much, besides some brief mentioning about finding your of Natural Point of Aim. Also in case your are wondering, while I have shot in a competition once (with horrible results), I am not a competition shooter. Thanks You are probably focusing on the target and looking for the sights after you are extended (hunting for the gun). Focus on the target until you start to present your pistol but as soon as the pistol comes close to eye level (as you are pushing out) switch your focus to the front sight...you already know where the target is. Also, take whatever time it takes to acquire a proper grip when your hands meet. It does no good to attempt to extend and shoot while trying to adjust your grip. Practice your draw stroke very slowly and precisely in front of a mirror. Build your muscle memory first and then speed up. Third, establish your natural point of aim. Stick a target on the mirror and assume your normal posture for drawing. See the target, close your eyes, draw and point to where you think the target is. Open your eyes and see where you are pointed. Adjust your feet so you will be pointing at the target the next time. Repeat and adjust until you consistently are pointing at the target when you open your eyes. Now look at your feet and memorize that position. Are you square to the target, 15 degrees, half the length of one foot? Whatever mental picture it takes to remember that position. Whenever you can, assume that position with relationship to the first target you are going to shoot. You may not always be allowed to do so but when you are you should be faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Chasing the gun with the weak hand while trying to establish your grip is a big loser. Get it on the gun as early as you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Refinement and Repetition, Drill 1. And that's just the beginning. You want the gun to be an extension of your body... It takes, uh... Refinement and Repetition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Refinement and Repetition, Drill 1. And that's just the beginning. You want the gun to be an extension of your body... It takes, uh... Refinement, Repetition, and Dedication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimitz Posted August 3, 2012 Share Posted August 3, 2012 Get Mike Seeklander's training videos (vol1) where he shows how to use index points for the draw, extend, prep and press so you can build a consistent grip every time ... Addresses and solves your exact issue ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexOsensei Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 I am son Of the Refinement and Repetition, Drill + Dedication After 5 mounths I can draw in .98 at 12 mt in alpha zone. work work and work... and when u have finish...mmm... work..ehehe.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Please, please, please, when doing draw only drills with a par time, DO NOT pull the trigger as part of the drill. We want to speed up the acceptable sight picture, not the first trigger pull. It's too easy to beat the par time with a trigger pull... SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Please, please, please, when doing draw only drills with a par time, DO NOT pull the trigger as part of the drill. We want to speed up the acceptable sight picture, not the first trigger pull. It's too easy to beat the par time with a trigger pull... SA Hmmm. I wondered why you drills separate the trigger pull in some drills. Why not work on getting the trigger pull upon acceptable sight picture? So they happen together- the trigger breaks when the sight picture is what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleL Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 I'd be guessing, but it seems like it's the form and movement of the draw that you want to time and improve upon. Seems like squeezing the trigger would be step one of shooting, not step 4 of the draw. Once the sights are aligned, then all the other drills should pick up where the draw leaves off. Makes sense in a weird kind of way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgood Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 That makes sense, kinda. I always pull the trigger on draw drills. It sort of completes it. I'm not just trying to get the click before the beep, although the click does help me define whether or not I finished before the beep. When the trigger breaks, I evaluate whether or not I was actually on target. "Yeah, got that." or "Nope, that sucked." or "Mmmm, that was kinda questionable." If I was not ON the target when the shot broke, then I DID NOT beat the par time. I'm gonna try it Steve's way without pulling the trigger and see what happens. I just got his book the other day and haven't started it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CocoBolo Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 (edited) Nobody says much about target size. I use a paster on the wall, a smaller target makes you get it right. I also will not just have one like to have 3 or more, transition thru all three and back to #1 then drop the hammer. The point in transition thru and back is to break or prevent any habbit of dropping the gun down. Variation of that is to have two virtual shoot boxes on each end of the room. Recently I read a post on draw that claimed improvement by concentrating on the weak hand, I tried it, it smoothed things out. If you have to look to reholster the gun your muscle ain't go a clue where the gun is on the draw, you need lot more reps. Edited August 5, 2012 by CocoBolo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xander Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Refinement and Repetition, Drill 1. And that's just the beginning. You want the gun to be an extension of your body... It takes, uh... Refinement, Repetition, and Dedication. +1k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
torrpd Posted August 5, 2012 Share Posted August 5, 2012 Refinement and Repetition, Drill 1. And that's just the beginning. You want the gun to be an extension of your body... It takes, uh... Refinement, Repetition, and Dedication. +1k I completely agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 I really don't care if people agree with me, but I do care if they waste their time and become sloppy shooters... Which skill would you rather have: Pulling the trigger in .70 after a draw. Drawing to an acceptable sight picture in .60. There are doozens of drills that press the trigger, just not this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 I really don't care if people agree with me, but I do care if they waste their time and become sloppy shooters... Which skill would you rather have: Pulling the trigger in .70 after a draw. Drawing to an acceptable sight picture in .60. There are doozens of drills that press the trigger, just not this one. I'm glad you care. Part of the "process" is trying to learn and understand... that's why I asked. I don't disagree that getting an acceptable sight picture is invaluable... it's just that prepping the trigger as part of that process has always been something I've been trained to do. To answer your question I'd rather have an acceptable sight picture while breaking the shot at .6 secs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 Prep it all you want! That's good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daves_not_here Posted August 6, 2012 Share Posted August 6, 2012 VISUAL PATIENCE Is what I think I'm improving with the sight picture drills. From Brian's book: Visual Patience "Practical Shooting" p.80 Enos 1990 DNH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimM Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Please, please, please, when doing draw only drills with a par time, DO NOT pull the trigger as part of the drill. We want to speed up the acceptable sight picture, not the first trigger pull. It's too easy to beat the par time with a trigger pull... SA Thank you for that reminder. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not-So-Mad Matt Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 Nobody says much about target size. I use a paster on the wall, a smaller target makes you get it right. I've found that different-size targets -- or targets at different distances -- emphasize different skills. Especially small targets -- particularly when I was a new shooter -- meant that I drew and then spent half a second trying to line up the shot adequately. An important skill, just not the one I'd use at seven yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted November 4, 2012 Share Posted November 4, 2012 Particularly with iron sights, it's a great idea to use different size targets in the same drill or excercise. One of the biggest issues I see in newer shooters is the tendency to use the same focus for every target. This can result in very good accuracy, provided that they are seeing more than they need to as opposed to less. But it will be slow. I have a shooter now that used to use a hard type 5 focus for every shot, called every shot, and then looked for the holes in the target to confirm all of the above. s-l-o-w. It was a big breakthrough to get him to let go of all that extra information... See what you need to see. No more, no less. SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NicVerAZ Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 I practice half of my dry fires pushing from the chest away towards the target. Repeat until I have done it about 20 times in a row flawlessly, aligning the sights and activating my laserlyte trainer with the double action, hitting a 1-inch square most of the time at 10-yards (yes, I have that space in my house) or if I miss it, not by much, and at least hit the A/0 zone all the time. Then the other half from the holster and my hands meet in front of the chest and again I push away towards the target and the sights align almost magically. Pull trigger, click, red dot on the 1-inch square, or pretty darn close to it. I then do the same walking around the house and picking up targets at random, of course never a human or a pet, and of course with the 4 rules in mind (because I am only 99.999% sure I only have a laserlyte and not a live round) and either shoot while walking or standing and pushing gun away, there again hitting the target with the laserlyte. Target can be the logo on the refrigerator door, a light switch, you get the idea. Ok, this is starting to sound like an ad for the laserlyte. If it does, I swear I am not getting a check for this. As for one-handed exercises: same thing. Away from the chest, align the sights, pull the trigger, again all double action. If I can do it smoothly double action, I will be able to do it single action. And yes, I shoot production, the first shot is DA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 Please, please, please, when doing draw only drills with a par time, DO NOT pull the trigger as part of the drill. We want to speed up the acceptable sight picture, not the first trigger pull. It's too easy to beat the par time with a trigger pull... SA I read that in your book. Since I shoot production, I still feel it is important to do *some* trigger pull practice, and since I often only have time to do 3-4 drills in a practice session, I typically do it first with no trigger pull, gradually decreasing the par time (just like the book suggests), and then back off the par time a few tenths and do 4-5 more repetitions with a trigger pull, trying to get exactly the same sort of sight picture. Fwiw, even after a month or two of fairly inconsistent practice, your techniques have resulted in significant improvement. For the OP, one of the things I found was that bringing the gun up to my chest resulted in 2 separate movements, which is slow. So I changed my draw so the gun now takes a much straighter line from hoster to target. My support hand meets the gun in a slightly different place, more towards my strong side, but I cut a couple tenths off my draw with that change in a few minutes of practice. The strategy in steve's book, starting fairly slowly and focusing on good technique, and speeding up a tenth each set up reps until you're really pushing it, is very effective at improving your speed while maintaining good technique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhugz Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Steve, on the drills which you state not to pull the trigger, should I still be prepping the trigger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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