The elusive flying target

[Atlgentlegiant]

You are going to hit where your eyes are looking, same as in pistol or rifle target transitions. The choke will help but the real key is keeping your body moving along with your eyes on the follow through. This was the first thing I had to learn shooting trap in college and within a month I was hitting 24 of 25 routinely at matches with a school provided 1100. Someone else mentioned it above, the shotgun gets pointed by you whole body following where your eyes are looking. If your eyes stop so does the gun. Best way I found to do it was to thinking about anything other than hitting the clay and let my body do it automatically (trying to get back in that mindset for my pistol shooting).

As for practice I disagree with some of the others here. You have to work out the mechanics first. I would suggest loading the gun, having the bolt closed and at low ready. Then see if you can have the thrower set to load in the same position for a series of shots (5-10) before it changes angle. Get the sight picture down. Try to take a freeze frame in your mind of the picture you have when you make a solid "Dust" hit. Keep it simple and go forward from there adding differing angles, delay, etc. Get the muscle memory down and everything else will take care of itself.

[clemson0211]

You are going to hit where your eyes are looking, same as in pistol or rifle target transitions. The choke will help but the real key is keeping your body moving along with your eyes on the follow through. This was the first thing I had to learn shooting trap in college and within a month I was hitting 24 of 25 routinely at matches with a school provided 1100. Someone else mentioned it above, the shotgun gets pointed by you whole body following where your eyes are looking. If your eyes stop so does the gun. Best way I found to do it was to thinking about anything other than hitting the clay and let my body do it automatically (trying to get back in that mindset for my pistol shooting).

As for practice I disagree with some of the others here. You have to work out the mechanics first. I would suggest loading the gun, having the bolt closed and at low ready. Then see if you can have the thrower set to load in the same position for a series of shots (5-10) before it changes angle. Get the sight picture down. Try to take a freeze frame in your mind of the picture you have when you make a solid "Dust" hit. Keep it simple and go forward from there adding differing angles, delay, etc. Get the muscle memory down and everything else will take care of itself.

This a very good point to note. Keep it simple as possible until you start to get comfortable. Each time the skeet is changing speed/ direction/ climb etc... will require a different hold, or lead.

[MarkCO]

There is some good advice on this thread for 3 gunners, and some good advice for those that shoot Clay sports...maybe mutually exclusive.

Clay sports have no time pressure, repeatable targets, common presentations and the same shots multiple times. Even in Sporting Clays, you get to see the same shot at least 5 times. It might take a round or two to get it, but I usually hit the last 3 pairs on a station. 70/100 gave me a false sense of accomplishment when it came to 3Gun.

3Gun, you get a few looks, but usually one presentation when you are on the gun. The emphasis has to be on hitting one unique presentation the first time, every time, in like 3/10ths of a second! Since all the MDs are different, you might see that one presentation once in 20 matches. Sorry, but shooting Trap and Skeet impaired my ability to hit the "aerial" shotgun targets in 3Gun. Sporting Clays I think helped some, but not enough.

Setting up the more common arrays: flipper behind a popper, stars, hand tossed birds, etc. gave me more improvement per shot fired than shooting Trap or Skeet ever could. Not saying those clay sports won't help, just not as much benefit, and I needed a LOT of benefit since I don't get to spend nearly as much time on the range as I would like.

The one thing I now do everytime I shoot a box or two of shotgun shells in practice is what I got from Bennie Cooley. He told us to toss empty hulls and shoot those. I can always find 2 or three empties to start with. I started off at about 15% and I am now close to 60% hits tossing singles, doubles and tripples with a variety of different tosses. For me, it has been the best improvement per round fired for aerials in 3 Gun. Thanks Bennie!

[SinistralRifleman]

For me it doesn't matter what sight system is on the shotgun; bead, ghost rings, rifle sights, or an aimpoint. I shoot flying clays with both eyes open point the shotgun at the target with whatever aiming reference point I have super imposed in my vision and pull the trigger. I'm successful at hitting clays unless I miscalculated where the second one was going to go and I activated 2 pigeon flippers at the same time. I find the most useful practice for 3 gun is having a friend hand throw clays at odd angles and in unexpected directions. YMMV

[ClutchUSMC]

I got some practice in on flying birds today. Luckily I have access to a trap range. I got some strange looks from the regular trap crowd but my girlfriends parents own the place so I have some freedom. I would shoot 120 round strings. Starting with 10 on the gun, port arms. My girlfriend hits the button and randomly sends up clays, I shot 1 at each and returned to port arms. After the guns empty, reload and move to a different position. I got to where I could hit 80% and now have a pretty solid understanding of what I need to see to get hits. Oh and I used a full choke, I was trying to make it hard. I think the trap guys said the mostly like IM.

My previous clay bird experience was limited to playing in a buddies back yard a few times in high school. At cmmg I got 6 of the fliers, got both at the benelli shotgun match. I hear there are 10 at the pro-am.

I hope to get another couple of practice sessions in before the pro-am, if anyone else has drills or ideas I'd love to hear them.

[EkuJustice]

You typicall will have to cover a trap target up with a gun not setup to shoot high. The target is moving up so you need verticle lead. the high shooting dedicated trap gun has that built in by shooting high

[ClutchUSMC]

That's exactly what I noticed on birds going straight away, I got more breaks when I couldn't see the bird or put it right ontop of the bead. On ones going left and right I noticed that if it was just inside the rib, visible to the left or right, I had enough lead on all put the most drastic angles or longer shots.

Still trying to figure out these birds with my gun, it's a 24" m2 that shoots point of aim. I also found that on the ones going away that if I wait till they start to drop I can get more reliable hits, when it's covered up completely it's hard to tell if I'm 100% on target. When they are dropping I can shoot with it just above the bead an let them fall into the pattern. But if you try to shoot it while it's climbing it's a crap shoot as to if you are aiming high enough.

[assaulter]

The one thing I now do everytime I shoot a box or two of shotgun shells in practice is what I got from Bennie Cooley. He told us to toss empty hulls and shoot those. I can always find 2 or three empties to start with. I started off at about 15% and I am now close to 60% hits tossing singles, doubles and tripples with a variety of different tosses. For me, it has been the best improvement per round fired for aerials in 3 Gun. Thanks Bennie!

Great tip! I tried this Friday. There is no doubt when you get a good hit on one because it goes zinging! Cheap and challenging, I like it.

[ClutchUSMC]

Mark and James told me about throwing hulls at midwest and I have done it a few times now in practice. It seems to be the only way to practice flippers without buying one.

[assaulter]

You can get one at brownells pretty cheap if you get the discount.

[LSnSC]

I came to 3 gun from the shotgun sports. I am an avid skeet and sporting clays shooter and an NSCA instructor.

The biggest problem I see with 3 gunners shotgun shooting, is they are shooting it like a rifle. Your gun needs to be set up so it points where you look. If it is you dont need any sights whatsoever. It is to be pointed not aimed. Your muzzle follows your eyes.

Second is the platforms you are shooting. They are marginal at best for shooting moving targets. Flat shooting guns with short barrels make it harder than it needs to be, ESPECIALLY on a trap field.

I would suggest borrowing or renting a gun suited to shooting clays, getting a couple of hours instruction, so that you actually have a foundation for success. Then apply what you have learned to the platform you shoot 3 gun with. Othewise you are burning ammo without accomplishing much at all.

I havent seen alot of flying tartgets on 3 gun courses, but from what I have seem you would be much better of practicing with a few rounds of 5 stand. You'll see more springing and crossing targets at short to medium range. I havent seen anything that remotely resembles the shots encountered on a trap field. Trap is mainly for old fat guys with obscenely expensive single shot shotguns that dont like to walk much....

[barrysuperhawk]

You typicall will have to cover a trap target up with a gun not setup to shoot high. The target is moving up so you need verticle lead. the high shooting dedicated trap gun has that built in by shooting high

This is hard to visualize...

[Matt Griffin]

You typicall will have to cover a trap target up with a gun not setup to shoot high. The target is moving up so you need verticle lead. the high shooting dedicated trap gun has that built in by shooting high

This is hard to visualize...

Picture a beach ball out there at the target, this is your shot pattern. On a rifle the sights line up directly at the middle of the ball. On a shotgun, the ball instead appears to be balanced on top of your sights, or maybe 2/3 high, but not centered. Like this:

[pjb45]

LSnNC you are right on the money.

Trap is about a specialized gun on targets going away and usually rising.

Personally, I enjoy skeet and a modified 5 stand we shoot at our range. In fact, I am taking my Benelli 3Gun to the skeet range after tomorrow's USPSA match.

As much as y'all may hate it, you should really do what Pat Miles said. Would you take your pistol or rifle to a match without knowing where it was shooting? Seriously! You are not even going to be in the same park if you don't know where your gun is actually shooting. You could be 40/60, 50/50, or 65/35 on your pattern. You have no hope of hitting anything without knowing your POI.

Make sure you don't over choke your gun.

Go to the skeet range to learn your leads on fliers and crossers. Sporting clays for rabbits and everything else. Anything is better than the trap range.

Check out Todd Bender on YouTube.

[barrysuperhawk]

You typicall will have to cover a trap target up with a gun not setup to shoot high. The target is moving up so you need verticle lead. the high shooting dedicated trap gun has that built in by shooting high

This is hard to visualize...

Picture a beach ball out there at the target, this is your shot pattern. On a rifle the sights line up directly at the middle of the ball. On a shotgun, the ball instead appears to be balanced on top of your sights, or maybe 2/3 high, but not centered. Like this:

So, is the second picture what my [hunting/tactical] gun is supposed to look like, or what a "properly set up trap gun" is supposed to look like?

[LSnSC]

The picture on the right is similar to what the sight picture on a shotgun set up for trap shooting would look like. Some trapshooters want the clay to "float' just above the rib. If you are shooting a shotgun correctly you dont see any sight picture. You have hard focus on the clay. Gun fit and muscle memory will do the rest.