ericm Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 ....the title is just there to grab your attention.... ISSUE #1: ABANDONMENT: ALL MATCH DIRECTORS should follow the abandonment procedures and materials of the ROCKY MOUNTAIN 3 GUN MATCH. PERIOD. I have had enough of sharp top edged barrels, sloping barrels, one barrel for 2 long guns, pistol "mail slots" lined with melty nylon carpet, pistol v-shaped wood wedge "trays" with 1" tall sides, etc. The RM3G materials and methods are there for ALL TO FOLLOW!!!!!! DO IT!!!!! ISSUE #2: INTIMACY: Aside from the rare times the CRO needs to hold A SINGLE long gun for a shooter while the shooter makes ready his pistol, I AM TIRED of stage setups where assistants feel or have been told they need to fondle EVERY SHOOTER'S FIREARMS in some way: holding a rifle while the shooter just stands there, clearing pistols and locking slides back before the shooter comes to retrieve it, puuullling long guns out of barrels, staging competitors guns, moving every gun on a pre-load table "down a space" as shooters cycle through, etc. MATCH DIRECTORS: THINK THIS THROUGH!!!! I don't want the chance of someone else breaking, bending, scratching or otherwise f%ing up MY firearms. LET ME DO THAT!!! Match directors are incurring a huge s$%%storm of accriminations and liability should anything happen to a shooters gun THAT HE DID NOT DO HIMSELF. It does not make a properly designed stage move any faster when the RO's take over the handling of shooters guns and only leads to bad feelings. Shooters have enough to worry about in a stage without feeling anxious about someone else handling their firearms. Those are my issues......Tell me if I need therapy or not.... ericm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1chota Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 ....the title is just there to grab your attention.... ISSUE #1: ABANDONMENT: ALL MATCH DIRECTORS should follow the abandonment procedures and materials of the ROCKY MOUNTAIN 3 GUN MATCH. PERIOD. I have had enough of sharp top edged barrels, sloping barrels, one barrel for 2 long guns, pistol "mail slots" lined with melty nylon carpet, pistol v-shaped wood wedge "trays" with 1" tall sides, etc. The RM3G materials and methods are there for ALL TO FOLLOW!!!!!! DO IT!!!!! ISSUE #2: INTIMACY: Aside from the rare times the CRO needs to hold A SINGLE long gun for a shooter while the shooter makes ready his pistol, I AM TIRED of stage setups where assistants feel or have been told they need to fondle EVERY SHOOTER'S FIREARMS in some way: holding a rifle while the shooter just stands there, clearing pistols and locking slides back before the shooter comes to retrieve it, puuullling long guns out of barrels, staging competitors guns, moving every gun on a pre-load table "down a space" as shooters cycle through, etc. MATCH DIRECTORS: THINK THIS THROUGH!!!! I don't want the chance of someone else breaking, bending, scratching or otherwise f%ing up MY firearms. LET ME DO THAT!!! Match directors are incurring a huge s$%%storm of accriminations and liability should anything happen to a shooters gun THAT HE DID NOT DO HIMSELF. It does not make a properly designed stage move any faster when the RO's take over the handling of shooters guns and only leads to bad feelings. Shooters have enough to worry about in a stage without feeling anxious about someone else handling their firearms. Those are my issues......Tell me if I need therapy or not.... ericm Hurrah! for you. amen, even. you do not need therapy, although i will gladly buy you a beer if you drop by the Sierra cabin at Raton. you hit the nail on the head. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 (edited) For most matches, yes you will need therapy. There was one at the last match where I cleared my M&P because the pistol dump was SO stupid! I don't really like ROs clearing my guns either, but I have never seen nor heard of any damage occurring to the guns. Edited May 23, 2012 by MarkCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Yes, you have issues - GET THERAPY!!! On abandonment: RM3G does it pretty well, but not perfectly IMHO. The trash cans/bins are precarious with some of the longer guns, and there is a risk the gun will break the 180. For pistols, they need to be buried - wanna come to Rio Salado and dig the holes for us ? At SMM3G we use 55 gallon barrels and trash bins with ramps to ensure the gun points down and downrange regardless of how it moves after abandonment. We try to trim our barrels so they aren't sharp, and the design has evolved over time, but I guess some folks have more sensitive skin than others. I know our solution is not perfect either, and it is OK for some folks to prefer the trash can approach, but we find what we do to be workable in our situation. On intimacy: Sometimes the layout on multi-gun stages dictates that one gun is abandoned a considerable distance from the finish location - SMM3G 2012 Stage 5 was a good example of this. After finishing, you may be surprised to hear that competitors are not always in a hurry to run back up the hill or whatever to clear their first gun. Delays in clearing the range translate into looooong stage reset times, squad overruns and ultimately late finishes. You may not be thrilled with an RO clearing your rifle, but would you prefer less interesting stages (less multi-gun stages, all guns clustered in the same location) or shooting your last stages of the day in the dark? Running multi-gun stages is really hard on the RO crew, and there is only so much the RM can do even if he packs the crew with extra staff... those guys asses are always dragging by the end of the day. At least fondling your guns gives them a little thrill in their otherwise mundane and miserable existence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Dump boxes. I've seen good and I've seen remarkably bad. Including ones that melted and one that tried to come with me as I went down range. I haven't been to RM3G in a few years and really can't remember what they had so I'll take your word for it. As far as intimacy issues with RO's handling your guns...get over it. At least that's my answer wearing the MD hat. I don't own any guns I use for 3 Gun that are pretty enough I care about. If they get scratched dented or dinged I don't care because I probably did it myself already. I would much rather have another RO clearing my gear and getting the stage reset than have to water down stages so I can drag my lazy butt back however far to clear all the guns I littered across the landscape. The only concern comes about when the safety is not engaged. Easy fix though from the staff perspective. If you can't tell leave it alone. Let the shooter look. If it's on, and you can easily tell with most guns, clear it and get moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyZip Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 Dump boxes. I've seen good and I've seen remarkably bad. Including ones that melted and one that tried to come with me as I went down range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFH Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 (edited) I know you haven't attended yet, but feel free not to attend the BRM3G. Andy BTW, I am already considering returning the entry fees of a couple of shooters who are not happy with any match they attend and complain about things continuously. I don't need the stress of dealing with chronically unhappy shooters and/or folks who cause hate and discontent just for the sake of doing so. Edited May 22, 2012 by AFH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 We all need therapy Kid Or is it " we all have it coming kid" Dropping the hammer for me is just a bit over the top , But I got over it seconds later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted May 22, 2012 Share Posted May 22, 2012 on staging guns before I shoot, I agree with Eric. on getting them out of the way for the next shooter to stage thier guns and provide quick and prompt stage reset.....If there is a better way other than letting range staff do it, I haven't seen it. I have seen guns dropped by range staff, sights phucked up by barrels, and guns not placed ready for use when placed by range staff. On the last one, if I place the gun and its wrong then its on me, if its done by staff then it "should" be grounds for a reshoot. IMHO!!! If I phuck up my gun during the stage due to my mishandling then no one is to blame but me, and the money I spent getting to the match is lost due to me. If the damage is due to staff mishandling, then I become very upset. Perhaps just as we have shooter delegates to verify scoring, we should have delegates to clear guns after the stage to ensure proper handling by a handler authorized by the shooter and not a tired, weary, hard working staff member only trying to do their very best under the conditions. trapr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Right now I think that there are more pressing issues that need to be addressed. I can only dream of when the biggest challenge facing our sport are the issues that spawned this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benelli Chick Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I HATE having people touch my guns other than me. It makes me feel...icky...and yes, we all know I need therapy. But, as and MD, though I try to avoid it like the plague, sometimes, I just really want this here and that there, and there's no way to clear the stage efficiently. BUT, I try to avoid it like the plague. One thing we do, that it seems some other matches have concern about is...if the abandoning positions are far from the end, we don't go clear guns until AFTER the stage is reset. Then the shooter can breath for a bit (the RO, too). The setters follow along behind and reset, and as they ALL walk back, the RO and the shooter stop and clear the gun and OFTEN, the next shooter is there waiting to stage their gun. That way the RO would've had to stop there anyway, and now he just does it once! Everybody has to walk back to the start anyway. If you wait until after the stage is reset, then you only have to do it once! I've been swept with my own gun by an RO who cleared it for me! Does make me grumpy! But, sometimes, it's just gotta happen. We try so hard to avoid, but... Again, just my $.02. I think I'm up to about $500 worth! Denise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericm Posted May 23, 2012 Author Share Posted May 23, 2012 I know you haven't attended yet, but feel free not to attend the BRM3G. Andy BTW, I am already considering returning the entry fees of a couple of shooters who are not happy with any match they attend and complain about things continuously. I don't need the stress of dealing with chronically unhappy shooters and/or folks who cause hate and discontent just for the sake of doing so. Wow....persecution issues ericm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericm Posted May 23, 2012 Author Share Posted May 23, 2012 .....and, in general, the abandonment and extraneous handling concerns answered by the "I don't give a s#$% about my equipment, so no one else should care about theirs either..." response is not a very good debating tactic. ericm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 I know you haven't attended yet, but feel free not to attend the BRM3G. Andy BTW, I am already considering returning the entry fees of a couple of shooters who are not happy with any match they attend and complain about things continuously. I don't need the stress of dealing with chronically unhappy shooters and/or folks who cause hate and discontent just for the sake of doing so. Wow....persecution issues ericm MD much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericm Posted May 23, 2012 Author Share Posted May 23, 2012 I know you haven't attended yet, but feel free not to attend the BRM3G. Andy BTW, I am already considering returning the entry fees of a couple of shooters who are not happy with any match they attend and complain about things continuously. I don't need the stress of dealing with chronically unhappy shooters and/or folks who cause hate and discontent just for the sake of doing so. Wow....persecution issues ericm MD much? .....if you have to ask, you don't know me..... ericm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atomicferret Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 When match rules state that you can not go downrange of a gun (regardless of its' condition), waiting for the shooter come clear it delays the match needlessly. If you, as the shooter, don't trust an RO to pick up the gun and carry it back to the beginning of the stage then designate a trustee in your squad to do it for you. Most RO's i have worked with* wouldn't have a problem with this. I have never seen an RO damage a competitor's gun, or move the sights, or drop a gun. I am not saying it has never happened; i suspect it is, however, very uncommon. Or maybe I am just lucky. I do agree with you on one point. There should be no need to move competitors guns before they shoot a stage. I also agree with Andy; if you don't like how a MD runs a match, then choose to shoot a different match. MD's already put up with enough Sh**. *I have worked as an RO in many major matches during the last 6 years, as well as many local matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 (edited) I think I know enough already... Edited May 23, 2012 by Chills1994 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericm Posted May 23, 2012 Author Share Posted May 23, 2012 ....and another excellent debating technique.... ericm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 yyyyyyaaaaaawwwwwwwwnnnnnnn.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericm Posted May 23, 2012 Author Share Posted May 23, 2012 You could always try contributing to this thread in a meaningful way if you're bored.... ericm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 It's late. I'm tired. I'm going to bed. In my opinion... accusing another MD of a major match of having persecution issues wasn't exactly contributing to this thread either. Additionally, I am thinking you didn't really come here to debate anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Come on guys we are all friends here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 And I think we're done. If anyone has anything constructive to add, please pm a moderator. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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