goat68 Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 This is sounding like the 30-06 and 7mm mag discussions at hunting camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmc1974 Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 ..... If I was to get it done is there anything else I should do to help that mod work better? ..... Thank you Some travellers come to a village, carrying nothing more than an empty cooking pot. Upon their arrival, the villagers are unwilling to share any of their food stores with the hungry travellers. Then the travellers go to a stream and fill the pot with water, drop a large stone in it, and place it over a fire. One of the villagers becomes curious and asks what they are doing. The travellers answer that they are making "stone soup", which tastes wonderful, although it still needs a little bit of garnish to improve the flavour, which they are missing. The villager does not mind parting with a few carrots to help them out, so that gets added to the soup. Another villager walks by, inquiring about the pot, and the travellers again mention their stone soup which has not reached its full potential yet. The villager hands them a little bit of seasoning to help them out. More and more villagers walk by, each adding another ingredient. Finally, a delicious and nourishing pot of soup is enjoyed by all. [edit] put down the national geographic, and slowly step away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 Let's see read what it should do in a book or use common sense, logic and the word from several shooters after fireing both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Springer Posted April 16, 2012 Share Posted April 16, 2012 (edited) This is a job for Mythbusters. They dig gun Myths but I don't know if this one is big enough. Maybe if we all slam thier site they'll do it. Edited April 16, 2012 by Don Springer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted April 18, 2012 Share Posted April 18, 2012 This is sounding like the 30-06 and 7mm mag discussions at hunting camp. Good observation! There are many parallels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWF Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 DAMN, i always believed that Benny Hill was the MAN on this. so i guess i wasted a $100 on the lighten bolt! i guess if i learned how read i could buy a book and be smart. anyway i do know that Benny is correct on AR LMAS bolt and buffer.so why would the thing not work on a shotgun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 DAMN, i always believed that Benny Hill was the MAN on this. so i guess i wasted a $100 on the lighten bolt! i guess if i learned how read i could buy a book and be smart. anyway i do know that Benny is correct on AR LMAS bolt and buffer.so why would the thing not work on a shotgun? No-one ever said you wasted $100, and you don't need to go read a book. If you read, non-emotional and without getting defensive, what is written within this thread, that is all you need...provided you understand basic HS physics. Some people do (or would) feel a more appealing recoil impulse with a lightened bolt in an M2, others do (or would) not. It is really pretty basic stuff. Still want to see the energy calcs Benny did that are contrary to the laws of physics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 (edited) Energy calcs? Physics? All BS. Benny, my 930 bolt will be inbound for a little lightening soon. Edited April 20, 2012 by outerlimits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spd522 Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 I have a lightened bolt in my M2. I don't know that I can really tell much difference in felt recoil. I can tell it cycles quicker. However, I have noticed it much more forgiving when running my favored Walmart bulk ammo through it. I used to get the occasional FTF into the chamber with the stock bolt. That issue seemed to have gone away with the lighter bolt. Yes I realize it was actually an issue of me using junk ammo as I didn't have the same problem with the good stuff. But cost wise, the lighter bolt will have paid for itself in ammo cost in a season or so. Just my observation as a self-sponsored shooter trying to have fun on a budget. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWF Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 DAMN, i always believed that Benny Hill was the MAN on this. so i guess i wasted a $100 on the lighten bolt! i guess if i learned how read i could buy a book and be smart. anyway i do know that Benny is correct on AR LMAS bolt and buffer.so why would the thing not work on a shotgun? No-one ever said you wasted $100, and you don't need to go read a book. If you read, non-emotional and without getting defensive, what is written within this thread, that is all you need...provided you understand basic HS physics. Some people do (or would) feel a more appealing recoil impulse with a lightened bolt in an M2, others do (or would) not. It is really pretty basic stuff. Still want to see the energy calcs Benny did that are contrary to the laws of physics. i just trying to some fun, because it was getting so serious, to me i had the shotgun bolt done for the looks, you know, so any one checking out my gear would think i know what i am doing, that is until they see me shoot! but i do know done correctly and with a adjustable gas system the action lighten does reduce the recoil on the AR platform. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 RWF, the AR low mass systems are a benefit. But, you don't need adjustable gas if the gas port in the barrel and the gas tube length are balanced, most are not. Cheers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
two shoes Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Without multi-axis accelerometer testing, the felt recoil/impulse is a perceived/interpreted notion. If I paid money to have a "thing" done on my gun, my expectation is that it would be "better", thus justifying it. Cycling improvement can be determined by visual/mechanical verification, the speed at which it happens can be measured as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry weeks Posted April 20, 2012 Share Posted April 20, 2012 Just to add more confusion, I thought the lightened bolt was to let the inertia operated Benelli cycle reliably with light ammo, like trap loads and reduced recoil slugs. Biggest thing you can do to minimize felt recoil is to make the stock fit correctly. I've shortened mine, beyond what you can do with Benelli pads and more than doubled the cast spacer along with giving the steel shim plate a bit more thickness on one side to maintain the cast setting when you tighten the nut. Hits where it should (after bending it against a telephone poll) and doesn't kick me too badly. Two rounds of trap every Wednesday evening and I come home with no bruises or pain. A girl from the office used my M2 instead of her 20 ga 870 one evening and didn't want to give it back. She's my height and the pull, drop and cast worked perfectly for her. Score went up, pain went down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWF Posted April 21, 2012 Share Posted April 21, 2012 (edited) oh so its confusion, we are looking for try this out. this all first hand by me. well i am sure most of know that the M2 with a pistol grip does not like light loads. tryed one a few years ago had issues. before with the comfort tech stock it would run about anything. i called Mr. Benny and he more or less said put the comfort tech stock back on or send him the gun with a pile of money and he could make it run. well now the arthritis is now bad enough that i can not shoot but a few rounds before i have to stop with a standard stock. so went back to the pistol grip stock talked with surecycle and they sold me a "buffer" for light loads. okay here is the confusion when i got it it was/is very heavy, damn they sent me the wrong part, this thing is about 2 ozs heavier than what was in the M2. BE DAMN IT FIXED THE PISTOL GRIP AND LIGHT LOADS! WHY? Now i am thinking if i go back to factory bolt it will once again shoot anything! I know i am still confused. what i am calling a light load with pistol grip is 2.75 dram with 1 1/8oz load comfort tech 2.75 with 1 oz load Edited April 21, 2012 by RWF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamesinnan2002 Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 So if less mass on a bolt is faster, does this mean that if i lighten the bolt on my Benelli Nova it will be easier/faster to pump? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 So if less mass on a bolt is faster, does this mean that if i lighten the bolt on my Benelli Nova it will be easier/faster to pump? Nope-you must take weight off your weak side bicep for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Well I hate to say it but all you fancy yahoos are missing something kinda important in this here deal. First Markco is right in the fact that recoil will be slightly more due to less weight, pure and simple....a couple of ounces worth. Second Benny is absolutely right in the fact that the lighter mass slows down faster...how can this be??? Now hang in there with me cause the laws of physics still apply to all of this!! First the recoil is generated by the bang and the XX amount of shot being accelerated out the barrel...can't change that for sure. BUT form here it gets a bit different because as the gun recoils AROUND the bolt and bolt carrier(which due to it's mass, tends to remain at rest) the INERTIA SPRING is compressed, and this is what "THROWS" the bolt and carrier back and ONLY this. A lighter bolt and carrier compress the inertia spring a bit less, and is "thrown back" at the same speed due to less weight. Now we have a mass being decelerated by a spring and that is all that is happening. Given the same spring rate in the stock, the lighter mass slows faster and hits the back of receiverever LIGHTER....what I like to call the "secondary recoil" of the inertia system. It is this second hit which is lighter and tends to cause less muzzle rise as the bolt is above the center line of the stock a bit when it hits. BUT it does accelerate forward faster as the spring in the stock now has a lighter weight to push forward, which speeds up cycling. BUT IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RUNNING LIGHTER LOADS! you would need a heavier carrier for that to happen to enhance inertia spring compression from less energy from recoil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 It is all voodoo magic. As long as it goes bang, feels good, and knocks down the steel or busts the clay that is all I care about. Much like law and sausage, sometimes it is better to not know. I have found that my shotgun recoils much harder if I drink too much beer the night before I use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I also shake a few chicken bones and say some mombo jumbo after I'm through so as to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Well I hate to say it but all you fancy yahoos are missing something kinda important in this here deal. First Markco is right in the fact that recoil will be slightly more due to less weight, pure and simple....a couple of ounces worth. Second Benny is absolutely right in the fact that the lighter mass slows down faster...how can this be??? Now hang in there with me cause the laws of physics still apply to all of this!! First the recoil is generated by the bang and the XX amount of shot being accelerated out the barrel...can't change that for sure. BUT form here it gets a bit different because as the gun recoils AROUND the bolt and bolt carrier(which due to it's mass, tends to remain at rest) the INERTIA SPRING is compressed, and this is what "THROWS" the bolt and carrier back and ONLY this. A lighter bolt and carrier compress the inertia spring a bit less, and is "thrown back" at the same speed due to less weight. Now we have a mass being decelerated by a spring and that is all that is happening. Given the same spring rate in the stock, the lighter mass slows faster and hits the back of receiverever LIGHTER....what I like to call the "secondary recoil" of the inertia system. It is this second hit which is lighter and tends to cause less muzzle rise as the bolt is above the center line of the stock a bit when it hits. BUT it does accelerate forward faster as the spring in the stock now has a lighter weight to push forward, which speeds up cycling. BUT IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH RUNNING LIGHTER LOADS! you would need a heavier carrier for that to happen to enhance inertia spring compression from less energy from recoil. Great explanation Kurt! I gotta save this info as I get confused easily!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmiller Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 New Benelli shooter question here, when the gun recoils the bolt and carrier collapse together unlocking the bolt? And residual pressure drives bolt and carrier backward? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunCat Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 New Benelli shooter question here, when the gun recoils the bolt and carrier collapse together unlocking the bolt? And residual pressure drives bolt and carrier backward? Thanks The gun, bolt carrier and bolt all move backwards (due to recoil) when the gun is fired. When your shoulder stops the gun from moving the bolt carrier tends to keep moving backwards due to inertia and as the carrier moves backwards it causes the bolt to turn and unlock from battery and thereby extracting the fired shell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted May 26, 2012 Share Posted May 26, 2012 There is a nice video showing the system in action. Here us a link but I can't tell if the video plays here or not because I'm on mobile. http://m.benelliusa.com/innovations/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 No, no, and no!, the bolt carrier remains stationary while the gun recoil. This compresses the inertia spring which throws the bolt back. The big old spring in the bolt does all this AFTER initial recoil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunCat Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 I thought I had it figured out...but I will defer to kurtm’s explanation above. (And I am starting to put more faith in Benny’s chicken bone voodoo hex as an added measure, never hurts to have a backup plan!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now