Batou Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 (edited) Administrator note: Don't talk tactics and legalities, etc. Stick with the reloading info. I'm looking for a good self defense 9mm load, something that has a low flash and more speed than the manuals would list, something between a max load in a manual and a +P load. Maybe I could work it up to a +P load. I have a large stock of 115 and 124gr Hornady XTP bullets. Thanks guys. Edited February 27, 2012 by Flexmoney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted February 26, 2012 Share Posted February 26, 2012 Not a good idea. You should (almost) never use handloads for personal defense loads. Buy a well respected brand and type that is geared toward defense shooting. There are a ton of reasons to not use handloads so I'll just say, just say no It's also a good idea to use the loads that either your local LEOs are using or look at the FBI and large departments and see what they use. They do a ton of research and testing to find what works best so leverage that and follow them. Welcome to the forum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 your manuals will list +p data. Assuming your gun is +p rated. Most modern ones are. Powders on the faster end of the scale will generate less muzzle flash than slower powders. Lots and lots of different powders will do what you want. Watch your OAL and stay in published ranges and you'll be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batou Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 I just found out that Ramshot Sihlouette was formerly known as Winchester Action Pistol. I've heard that it has a low flash signature. My manuals have WAP loads, so I'll get some Silhouette and go with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidnal Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I woluldnt' make self-defensive rounds b/c it give them one more thing to use against you in a court of law. My favorite are the Corbon DPX. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redbulladdikt Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 +1 on not reloading defense or carry ammo...its widely considered a no-no talk to local LEOs and check FBI ballistics as to what will cause the most damage--I prefer Speer Gold Dot HPs in my 9mm but carry Hornady HTP in a my .40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydiver Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I just found out that Ramshot Sihlouette was formerly known as Winchester Action Pistol. I've heard that it has a low flash signature. My manuals have WAP loads, so I'll get some Silhouette and go with that. In .40, I've noticed it has low flash if loaded for Major PF out of both my EAA Witness Match and Limited. When I was loading it for Minor, there was a brighter flash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HotLoad Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Using handloads for defensive rounds could open you up to scrutiny if a shooting case was ever to go to court. Best to stick with whatever your local police or sheriffs department is using. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MGMorden Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 While I honestly can't say I see the value in making any specific point to use what local LEO use, I'll throw in another vote against using handloads for self-defense. I don't buy into a lot of hype on gel tests and the current super-loads. Just pick one of the hollow-point defensive loads by any of the big manufacturers (I tend to use Hornady, but any of them will do). Shoot it enough in your gun to make sure it functions fine and that the point of impact is where you'd expect it. After that run a mag or so of whatever you chose through the gun once every few months to make sure all is still well and you're good to go (assuming you're practicing with target loads are fairly regular intervals in between). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al503 Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I know there are some well respected authorities that recommend not using handloads for SD but I've never understood the rationale behind it. Let's say for argument's sake that the shooting was justified. In regards to the state/District Attorney, what is the basis for your arrest? What law/statute is allegedly being broken? (I don't know of any state where such a law exists.) If there is no law/statute forbidding handloads for SD purposes, the prosecutor has nothing to charge you with. For giggles, lets say that you are being charged with a crime for using handloads. DA: 'You shot Mr. XYZ with a handload that has __% more muzzle energy the average factory 9mm SD round.' You: 'I did. However, Mr. XYZ is lucky I wasn't carrying my 454 Casull/500 S&W (or whatever) that day. Factory 454 rounds have _x_% more muzzle energy than my 9mm handloads. Honestly, If I had a Romulin Disrupter from Star Trek, I would have used that to make sure me and my family didn't come to any harm. Besides, you won't be able to find any manufacturer that will guarantee that they have never sold a defective bullet. I, on the other hand, can visually check each bullet I make for primer compound and anvil, that the brass has a flashhole, there is a powder in the case, etc.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRider8 Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 If it is justified, you can kill someone with a rock, it can be large or small. It only becomes a problem when it not justified. Same thing with ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acekc Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Massad Ayoob (author of In The Gravest Extreme) says handloads for self-defense are a bad idea, and that's good enough for me. Here's a link that sheds light on why: http://www.gunatics.com/forums/general-gun-talk/5514-cases-where-handloads-caused-problems-court-mas-ayoob.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batou Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 Thanks for the advice about using handloads for self defense. I have Corbon +P's as my go to SD round. I'd still like to learn to reload +P 9mm so I can practice with the extra recoil. I have a lot of 115 and 124gr Hornady XTPs on hand and some AA7 powder. I feel like the first step is to use a near max load by the manual and increase the OAL, then check to see if that cycles reliably. Then I could slightly increase the load from there. How do reloaders determine how much to increase the OAL? I could also try a new powder and/or bullet. Like maybe Speer Gold dot. I'm sure a lot of people have tried to replicate the Speer Gold Dot +P. If you have, please share your results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I have never tried as I have never felt threatened by cardboard targets. This is a shooting sports forum - not a tactical or self defense discussion. .02 from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPatterson Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 I know there are some well respected authorities that recommend not using handloads for SD but I've never understood the rationale behind it. Let's say for argument's sake that the shooting was justified. In regards to the state/District Attorney, what is the basis for your arrest? What law/statute is allegedly being broken? (I don't know of any state where such a law exists.) If there is no law/statute forbidding handloads for SD purposes, the prosecutor has nothing to charge you with. For giggles, lets say that you are being charged with a crime for using handloads. DA: 'You shot Mr. XYZ with a handload that has __% more muzzle energy the average factory 9mm SD round.' You: 'I did. However, Mr. XYZ is lucky I wasn't carrying my 454 Casull/500 S&W (or whatever) that day. Factory 454 rounds have _x_% more muzzle energy than my 9mm handloads. Honestly, If I had a Romulin Disrupter from Star Trek, I would have used that to make sure me and my family didn't come to any harm. Besides, you won't be able to find any manufacturer that will guarantee that they have never sold a defective bullet. I, on the other hand, can visually check each bullet I make for primer compound and anvil, that the brass has a flashhole, there is a powder in the case, etc.' Smart ass answers on the witness stand are a good way to turn off a jury. Remember the only attorney who won't take advantage of your answers is the one you hired. Limit answers to yes/no unless he asks if you have stopped beating your wife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 FOLKS...answer the reloading questions...or don't. But, please stop the debate/advice on tactics/leagality/etc...else I have to close the thread. Per the forum rules: Intent This Forum is for firearm, technique, and conceptual discussions pertaining to training and competition. (And various unrelated topics.) While the occasional defensive shooting post is not prohibited, in general, defensive shooting discussions or debates are discouraged. And please, no hunting or "killing animals" (of any kind) threads. - Admin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al503 Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) Deleted...see above. -Admin. Edited February 27, 2012 by Flexmoney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al503 Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 FOLKS...answer the reloading questions...or don't. But, please stop the debate/advice on tactics/leagality/etc...else I have to close the thread. - Admin. My last was typed at the same time as this. I'll delete, if you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lee blackman Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 Personally I like the Winchest Ranger 127gr +P+, when I can't seem to get hold of it I usually order Buffalo Bore or Double Tap in 147gr JHP. Just for reference, I'm not one to carry a handload for a defensive load unless its all I've got. But I did end up with about 10 boxes of 90gr XTP bullets, and couldn't seem to find anyone who wanted them, so I found load data in a hornady load manual. I ended up working up to 5.8gr (max according to load manual) of AA#2 powder. It was chronographing around 1380fps, and grouped amazing. There weren't any reliablility or feeding issues, and I couldnt get over how accurate the load was. Also it was noticeably louder and had low low recoil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twodownzero Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) deleted: see above (also see the link that concerns your deleted material) - Admin. Power pistol works really well for me. And for the record, I carry factory ammo, but there's still a sound basis for loading a bunch of XTPs up to make sure your gun runs with them, so that when you buy a box of TAP (for your carry rounds), you can count on them running. I'm not independently wealthy, so my "testing" with my carry ammo has to use handloaded ammo with the same bullet. What that means is that I generally carry Gold Dots or TAP, because they are available to handloaders. Edited February 27, 2012 by Flexmoney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Batou Posted February 27, 2012 Author Share Posted February 27, 2012 I didn't know this site was for competition reloading only. I've been asking around about handloading +P 9mm on a lot of different forums. I haven't found much. This is the only forum I've seen that has a lot of reloaders with extensive 9mm experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 this is not a political forum, . The OP wants suggestions on low flash higher velocity +p level 9mm loads. What he is or isnt gonna do with them isnt anyone's business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 this is not a political forum, . The OP wants suggestions on low flash higher velocity +p level 9mm loads. What he is or isnt gonna do with them isnt anyone's business. If thats the case, then the title needs to be adjusted accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) In 40, I find that n320 is much more comfortable to shoot than power pistol or many commercial loads. I happen to use zero jhp's when I load major just to tell them apart from the minor loads. I think in general, using the fastest powder you can safely use will keep the recoil and flash to a minimum, because the powder will mostly burn up while the bullet is still in the barrel. You might give up a smidgen of velocity, but it should still go fast enough to leave a mark. for some reason, VV doesn't list a load for 124 gr xtp, but they have 115 and 147 gr xtp's, and several other 124 gr bullets. I personally haven't tried n340, but that might be a good choice if it turns out to be low flash. Edited February 27, 2012 by motosapiens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 27, 2012 Share Posted February 27, 2012 this is not a political forum, . The OP wants suggestions on low flash higher velocity +p level 9mm loads. What he is or isnt gonna do with them isnt anyone's business. If thats the case, then the title needs to be adjusted accordingly. Done. Now, lets get on topic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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