gl Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 Chime in so the rest of us stiffs who could not attend can vicariously live through you! Guy Hawkins Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 what a marathon...multigun stages caused delays, as suspected. stage 6 (the airplane) was taking 9 mins per shooter. friday start at 0700 and finished by 1415. saturday started at 1330 and shot a rifle stage at 2056! long day. have to say the stages were mostly fun, not difficult, but extremely technical and challenging. the last stage we were supposed to shoot today got tossed before we could shoot it. results? dunno. split early as lack of sleep was getting to us. did see matt burkett tear up the long range rifle on "port trouble". some army team guy had a suppressor and got bumped to open...hahahaha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted June 27, 2004 Share Posted June 27, 2004 What's the difference between "difficult" and "extremely technical and challenging"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Rhino - It depends on your point of view. From the C&D class - it's difficult. For the A&B shooter -Challenging From GM & M - Extreemly Technical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dminor Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 The results are posted on the USPSA members' page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Good match, good stages and a GREAT crew! The multi-gun stages did not cause the delay it was a combination of A multi-gun stage that wasn't run "correctly" to clear the rifle and allow for faster stage resetting. This was corrected on Day 2. Unfortunately as a result of the Day 1 difficulties with this stage it caused a minor backup on Day 2. Friday AM, all the stages (except maybe Bay 5) were on schedule or in our case an hour ahead of schedule. Friday PM, was a little rough. Saturday AM, again, less the catch up on Bay 5, we were either on or ahead of schedule. Saturday PM, we got everyone except one squad caught up through Bay 5 and the match (actually left on time/30 minutes early) and only rolled one squad over per their request and approval by the CRO and RM. Sunday went off without too many problems. We were done right on schedule. Normally for EVERY squad we were done in 30-35 minutes but one of our last squads necessitated RM intervention that was resolved. As a competitor, I'd say the stages were tough. They were technical and required that shooters know their equipment and know to handle their equipment (hence the number of DQ's). Far too many "pistol shooters" showed up to this match and didn't think about what happens to a rifle/shotgun/pistol when you place it hot or cold on a table. Most of the DQ's were for unsafe gun handling (i.e. leaving a loaded gun down) and that is not a stage design issue (see SMM3G and RM3G, etc.). That is a shooter issue. I would say that the multi-gun system works well for USPSA. I believe without it, the match would have had a minimum of 50 fewer shooters (myself included and I certainly wouldn't have RO'ed). Too, with the addition of Tactical division, it shows that the organization is going in the right direction. My biggest issues were that the stages, for the masses (politician hat on) maybe were a little too hard. While I practice weak hand rifle shooting, I think it is safe to say that most don't. Other stage issues were the A-zone only targets, and rifle steel that when you did the factoring, wasn't worth shooting unless you nailed them fast. Both of these are an EZWinScore issue and again, not a function of stage design. One idea for scoring is to use time plus. My only "concern" is that it doesn't acknowledge power. However this can be done by simply adjusting the amount of time added (+ 1 second for major, + 2 seconds for minor, e.g.). That being said, EZWinScore appears to be the biggest problem with USPSA and multi-gun. The two best parts about going time plus is A) Now it becomes spectator friendly; Competitors can more easily keep track of where one another is in the field; and C) it takes about 30 minutes and Microsoft Excel to set up the program to do the scoring. Overall, the match was good. The competitor's were civil and I got to meet a lot of folks from the boards (Bear1142, Kurt Miller, Benny Hill, Mig, Rod and Cheryl Current, just to name a few). Watching the super squads were great and reinforced a lot of the training that I'm doing. The weather was a little harsh for some folks, but wager that more folks showed up due to the venue than didn't (i.e. access to night life, ease of travel to and from, etc.). If USPSA decides to go back to single gun stages (didn't the match in Vegas have multi-gun stages?) I'd consider going but feel many 3-gun shooters won't. Monte Leveaux, the Match Director and Carl Schmidt, the Rangemaster deserve unending levels of praise and gratitude for putting this match on. The folks at WNPL in Reno worked their tails off and without them, R & R Racing, folks like Adam Carlson and George (BE board name), all the sponsors, Dave Thomas, this match would not have happened. They went into the match with some of the 'old guard' doubting and questioning their competence and ability to put the match on and did so with flying colors. Great job everyone! Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve223 Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 SO who won? Im at work and dont have a copy of front sight here. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bberkley Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Pistol_match 2004 USPSA 3-Gun Nationals Limited TARAN BUTLER Open MICHAEL VOIGT Rifle_match 2004 USPSA 3-Gun Nationals Open JERRY MICULEK JR Standard BENNIE W. COOLEY JR Tactical TARAN BUTLER Shotgun_match 2004 USPSA 3-Gun Nationals Open MICHAEL VOIGT Standard TARAN BUTLER Looks like Bennie Cooley was Limited Aggregate winner, and Michael Voigt was Open Aggregate winner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn jones Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 damn too slow on the results posting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMC Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 This match was one of thoes where while you are shooting it your thinking "what am I doing here, I could be home on the couch" but when it was over I though "yeah, it was tough but still great fun". Like Rich says, huge thanks to Monte and the crew for putting the on match. It was big, 15 stages thank you, spread out over a huge area and big courses of fire. I know when I was done shooting for the day I was beat but I got to leave, they stayed to make sure things were ready to go the next day. Hats off to them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 LIMITED 1 BENNIE W. COOLEY 100.00% 2 KURT MILLER 95.43% 3 TRAVIS TOMASIE 86.53% OPEN 1 MICHAEL VOIGT 100.00% 2 MATT BURKETT 97.60% 3 JERRY MICULEK JR 91.26% Tactical ? I can't tell...no aggregate results. Had to be Taran...as he won all the individual parts. What happened with Travis' pistol? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rboudrie Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 It looks like the score transfer file generated by EzWinScore does not include an aggregate for Tactical (something t hat will have ot be corrected). I have emailed Dave Thomas about this asking for the EzWinScore datbase so I can post Tactical Aggregate results manually, so they should be up in the not too distant future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 tough stage 14 (i think). pistol/rifle deal...pistol targets only had a zones under new multigun rules. rifle targets from 75 out to around 236 yds or so. 2 shooting ports (both prone and in the corner of wall with walls on each side) so, you HAD to shoot thru each port at each rifle target...as bigdawg pointed out, that meant left and right handed!!! then there was a wild run thru the desert shotgun maze requiring some long shots at a number of US poppers...there was a run at walmart that evening for high base 6's.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted June 28, 2004 Share Posted June 28, 2004 Hmmm - I would really really like to see Tactical aggregate as that where my buds are! So someone tell me how Kelly and Erik Lund did I noticed Erk in 3rd on the finals when the showed him, and of course, Kelly was second, again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 (edited) Following Taran in Tactical were kellyn and Bear1142, or so I'm told. kurtm is a god among men reloading the shotgun. Honestly he is faster than all but the best Open shooters with Tec-Loaders. He was probably the one shooter most disadvantaged by the multigun stages, which required fewer shotgun reloads. Edited June 29, 2004 by Erik Warren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 Erik, I couldn't find you - did you end up not shooting? And thanks for the results! I'm so proud of *our* b.e. boyz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMC Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 Chris on this board finished 6th in tactial. Looks like Jerry finished 3rd in Open, I guess he was behind me in the prize line because he wasn't paying attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 Erik Lund should have won Stage 8 - Rifle Stage 3. Benny had two mikes. I don't know if it just wasn't entered correctly or what? That one mistake may potentially shuffle a couple of people's overall placement. Furthermore, while looking at the initial posted results, I overheard a shooter say that the score for him on one stage was wrong. This was my first major match. This is one of the lessons I will take with me to the next major match: audit/check your scores! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Religious Shooter Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 Oh, on at least one of the DQ's I heard about was with the practice of dumping the rounds at the last target or at the berm to empty the gun. I personally don't unload the gun on the berm or last target (but I will begin to ). But I believe some people just aim and shoot until the gun gives the recoil feel of an empty gun (slide/action doesn't go forward) and then table the gun. Well apparently, at least one shooter did this and as soon as he felt that empty recoil feel he tabled the gun. But it turned out that the gun had jammed. The shell was stuck in the chamber or whatever and there were still round(s) in the carrier or tube. DQ time. So another lesson learned -- when doing this type of unloading, be sure to look and confirm the chamber is empty and don't just go by feel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 TMC, Jerry was probably picking up Kay's prize. I knew your "I beat Jerry Miculek" was as bogus as a 2.95 El Prez. Whaddayamean Chris finished 6th? The results say 19th. But then the results confuse the hell out of me. I was surprised at how few people burned the guns empty on the stage I RO'ed with BDH (3 guns, Bay 5, with the battering ram). Most everybody dropped the mag then racked the slide before tabling the pistol, but then it required a couple steps to reach the table. The people who had shotshells left mostly burned them into the berm but many people were racking them. One guy in one of the last squads thought his shotgun was empty when it locked open on his last engagement and tabled it with a round in the mag. I caught it and had BDH stop him and we DQ'ed him. On a stage that takes a full minute for a good run in Limited or Tactical, you can afford a moment to look for the follower while grounding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMC Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 Whaddayamean Chris finished 6th? The results say 19th. But then the results confuse the hell out of me. The nice lady with the results sheet showed him 6th and they called him 6th to the prize table. As none of us have looked at those sheets since we may never know. As for me, the sheet at the match had me 15th but the aggregate score on the USPSA website has me 14th. I'm as confused as you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 Did you hear what happened to Buff? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TMC Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 Why no, tell me, what did happed to Buff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 Whaddayamean Chris finished 6th? The results say 19th. But then the results confuse the hell out of me. Yea whats up with that? The results on Sunday showed me as 1st B and 7th overall in Tactical. Does this mean I don't get my first place B plaque? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 Yeah I talked to Buffy this morning. He accepts his mistake and doesn't blame the RO for saying "Hammer down" while he had his bolt back and a magazine in the rifle. The RM shut down my stage (and any others running but I think we were the only one) about 9:15 Saturday night when I asked my CRO for a flashlight so I could see the rifle chambers and shotgun followers in the dark. As it was, I had to lower my glasses to see empty chambers, which was scary, as somebody had blown up a rifle while unloading early in the match. I'm not willing to risk a finger checking by feel. Maybe I should use a feeler tool. Maybe we shouldn't shoot in the f'ing dark! Some poor soul had his 1100 magazine/carrier tied up with a round and couldn't unload it. When you can't unload a gun on a 3 gun stage, you can't continue to use the next gun(s). When the ROs were shooting stages, another poor soul had his 20 ga 1100 jam and he used his knife to clear it. Using a tool to clear a jam results in a zero for the stage under the shotgun rulebook. But does that apply in a multigun match when the stage is not designated as a shotgun stage, but as a pistol stage? Because both the 14th-2001 and proposed 2004 rulebooks prohibit tools for handguns, but a handgun is not a shotgun or a rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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