Kory Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 I have been involved in steel shooting for about two years now, my skills have progressed quite a bit. I shoot a stock CZ-75B that had a trigger job and target sights added (boy that sure helped a lot). I keep getting told by better shooters that my gear is limiting me from progressing. I also hear the opposite from some shooters, that it's all about the shooter, and that the gear doesn't play a very big role. How much does one's pistol choice limit their shooting? I like the fit of my gun, the only complaint is the mag release is a tad too far to hit with my strong thumb without minor adjustement to my grip during reloads. I don't know much about getting a gun set up to shoot flat, or anything about load development, as I shoot factory 9mm loads currently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Hey Kory!!! No, your gun is not holding you back. Buy Steve Anderson's book, Brian's book, a timer, and Matt Burkett's DVDs and go from there. The only time to change equipment is when it's broken (and in that instance it may be to a duplicate gun) or YOU feel like trying something new, not when someone else tells you you should. BTW, welcome to the forum! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 Forgot one thing: you should have enough gear from Madness, so come out to Jojo's match and try some USPSA shootin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 I don't think your gun could be holding you back unless it isn't reliable, is just a bad "fit" to you, or isn't accurate enough to do the job. I'm hoping that those folks who think everyone should use what they like will eventually die off and quit hurting the sport. Usually those who follow the "It's the Indian, not the arrow" doctrine are people you want to listen to. Ignore the rest of them. Maybe they can entertain themselves by telling wheelgun shooters they don't belong in USPSA or some other such crapola. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gun Geek Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 I'm with the general attitude posted - most of the speed come from the shooter, not the gun. Having said that, the gun must be reliable, reasonably accurate and fit/be comfortable for you. It also has to have a good trigger (which it sounds like you have) and decent competition sights. The comfort thing is subjective (as in very). Try a few other guns and see if you like them better. If not, you've got the right gun. In the interest of finding a new nugget, ask the guys who don't like your gear why they think it is limiting you. Heck, they could be right! Don't discount them because you don't like their philosophy. ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS listen to the dissenting voice. You don't have to follow it, but listen. That's where the breakthroughs come from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Sweeney Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 The only thing I would add is to check the actual accuracy you're getting. Some guns can be picky, and if you're using factory ammo your gun doesn't like you could be shooting large groups. If the groups are good, don't worry about the gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kory Posted June 23, 2004 Author Share Posted June 23, 2004 The gun does fit me well, so far as it feels good in the hand, better than any other pistols I have shot. Perhaps that is familiarity as much as it is a fitment issue. Groups size: At the indoor range, if I slow fire freestyle without using a rest, I get baseball sized 20 round groups at 50 feet. The gun has never once malfuctioned during a match. I did get one stovepipe once while shooting unsupported weak hand, probubly my fault. So what's the advantage of the multi-thousand dollar setups vs. the $400 gun I have been using? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted June 23, 2004 Share Posted June 23, 2004 None. You are good to go. For Steel Challenge, you may have an instance or two where the first shot being double-action might bother you some...but, the guys that I know, they don't let themselves worry about that much. They just pick one and practice...then start beating the guys with the multi-thousand dollar setups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcoliver Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Is my gun limiting my progress? If you think it is, it will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 I'm hoping that those folks who think everyone should use what they like will eventually die off and quit hurting the sport. That's confusing. Kory: It ain't the Indian it's the arrow. It's not the song it's the singer. Pick one and practice. Sure that's good advice, but gear does play an important part in shooting. Frankly, I don't know many shooters who could get as far with a Moonie built mil-spec 1911 as they would with a BCG Pro Limited gun. I have a CZ75B and I like the gun a lot. I shoot it in Production Division and I do OK. Look at Angus Hobdell, he's a CZ toting Grand Master. I don't know how well you shoot, but I doubt that either of us have reached our potential with a CZ. However, if you want to try a better gun, go for it. You might find you prefer a different platform. There is nothing wrong with shooting a pistol you like no matter what the price tag and that goes both ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Is my gun limiting my progress? If you think it is, it will be. I agree with what mcoliver just said. & "Half this game is 90% mental" If you feel the gun is substandard - you can't shoot up to your potential. If a $500.00 gun is as good as a $2000.00 one - there are certainly a lot of people spending too much money in this sport. Ask everone who has told you "its not the indian its the arrow" what THEY are shooting. I figure about 85-90 % shoot a high zoot gun. There will be exceptions - but not many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brazos Custom Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 I hope all the indians shooting against me use crappy arrows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Bob, Are you saying his gun is crappy? He says: - feels good - has good sights and trigger - groups well - hits where he points it - never malfunctions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kory Posted June 24, 2004 Author Share Posted June 24, 2004 Thanks fellas. I just wanted to be sure everybody didn't say that I was wasting my time with this platform, and changing to a full race 1911 is an absolute necessity to be competetive. I like the platform, it works, I have confidence in it, and do pretty well with it. But I still get told very frequently that I "need to step up in equipment" I am glad most of you disagree, it's much cheaper to stick with what I allready have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 There's no doubt, a 1911 is a better tool for Limited division. Is it holding back your progress? There are a couple different measurements of progress as I see it. One progression is the process of learning the skills necessary attain your full potential, the other is performing those skills at your full potential when compared to other shooters of the same skill level. Your current gun won't prohibit you from learning how to save time, shoot more accurately or shoot mistake free, but once you've mastered your game, it may be limiting your application of your learned skills. Another thing is for sure, it’s extremely fun to beat $2000 1911s with your less than popular gun type! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dv8 Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 I shot CZ 85 for a while, and at some point decided that I need to try another gun. I am shooting a G35 now and it is a good gun too. What I learned is that changing guns once in a while gives you another perspective at a whole bunch of stuff. I found some ad/disadvantages in both guns, and I think I will be a better shooter when I learn to deal with disadvantages and use advantages of whatever gun I might be shooting. The decisive point for me to change CZ to Glock was Matt Mink's story (somewhere on this forum) about how he evolved as a shooter. He said that every time he'd come back to his Glock after shooting some other gun he would find himself a better shooter. I am sure I will go back and forth to my other guns (most of which are CZs BTW) , and I expect this to reveal whatever defficiences I have and help me work them out. As for CZ 75 B, it is a good gun with great ergonomics, very accurate, and it runs well too - most of them anyway. I agree that it is the shooter, not gear... though getting my hands on new gear is always so exciting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck D Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 I never bought into the theory that you have to "keep up with the Jones" when it came to buying "competitive equipment". Find a particular gun you like, tweek it (if necessary) to meet your needs and shoot it 'till the grips fall off. If shooters didn't "like" other guns and take the time to "shoot" other guns...we'd see only 1911's. Glock's, Sig's, Beretta's, S&W's, Tanfoglio's and CZ's are by-products of a different way of thinking by people willing to try something different that suits their own tastes. Celebrate IPSC Diversity ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dv8 Posted June 24, 2004 Share Posted June 24, 2004 Celebrate IPSC Diversity ! Amen!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Bagnato Posted June 25, 2004 Share Posted June 25, 2004 When I started shooting USPSA their were two divisions Open & Limited. I started with an H&K USP 9mm Compact thumb break holster and no mag pouches for the three ten round magazines. I moved up to a Colt Gold Cup 1911 shot 8-10 round magazines in Limited did well also. I became frustrated about competing with the 19 round guys and joined the race. The USPSA recognized this and added the divisions production, L-10 etc. The point of the story here is you are shooting against yourself in your own division. The only limiting factor after the equipment functioning is YOU! Once you have Mastered the fundementals of shooting the equipment is merly the tool. If you like your CZ stick with it. Rob Leatham has won many a Tuesday night steel with a Springfield XD 10 round magazines etc. There were plenty of guys shooting open as well. I can also remember him placing second at a local USPSA match above quite a few open shooters. I don't think his equipment was limiting him either. How about you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clyde Posted July 15, 2004 Share Posted July 15, 2004 Good Sights, Trigger & Faith Sounds like you have what you need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DogmaDog Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 I can see 2 things about your pistol that could be limiting: 1. It's a 9mm and can't score major. Only an issue if you shoot something other than production div. 2. If you shoot production div, and there aren't many other shooters, it's possible that the higher level of competition in limited or open division could push you to develop faster (assuming those divisions have a larger number of competitors in higher classes than in production). Other than that, it's possible you could get tighter groups from a $2k gun, or that you could shoot faster splits if you had a heavier gun, or that you could reload faster with a huge magwell, or whatever. The thing is that the RATE at which your skills in each area improve will be totally unaffected by the choice of gun...that is still dictated solely by the effort you put into it. A new gun might get you a one-time 10% boost to your classifiers, but it won't speed your improvement appreciably. DogmaDog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdj Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 2. If you shoot production div, and there aren't many other shooters, it's possible that the higher level of competition in limited or open division could push you to develop faster (assuming those divisions have a larger number of competitors in higher classes than in production). Of course, if you look at the "unofficial" overall scores, then competing against Open shooters with your current equipment could give you an even bigger push to improve even if you are the only Production shooter Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted July 16, 2004 Share Posted July 16, 2004 Kory, Just practice with what you have and tune it to your liking and make it better. After all, that French guy who won the Nationals last year is using a CZ/EAA/Tangfolio. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew_Mink Posted July 18, 2004 Share Posted July 18, 2004 I would have to say this, if for some odd reason I couldn't shoot a Glock anymore, I wouldn't hesitate to pick up a CZ and run with it. After shooting Angus's, I realized that the CZ is an awesome performer. Your gun isn't holding you back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eye Cutter Posted July 23, 2004 Share Posted July 23, 2004 agree! the CZ's are dark horses. a very nicely set-up CZ will give a 1911 a run for the money. in Prod Division, it is one of the most widely used pistols here in the Philippines. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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