Do you memorize every stage?

[DRamsey]

I've watched Kert Gaskill, Max Michel, and Chris Tilley shoot. You can see them mentally run a stage before they shoot it.

Do you memorize every stage or are there degrees. I know there's not much to memorize on an El Prez, but what about filed courses? Simply "block" the footwork or memorzie each target and the shooting position?

[dajarrel]

I find it useful at times (not every course) to close my eyes and visualize the shooting of a COF. It particularly helps with timing of mag changes for me and helps me to visualize the path I will follow.

Of course that is for a perfect shoot. As soon as I come across a piece of steel that kicks my behind, I have to start thinking on the go again. But I think that is the fun part.

Who was it that said " No plan of battle ever survives the first shot" ? (rough paraphrase)

FWIW

dj

[Sam]

I try to D, but then I forget some seemingly insignificant detail......like STEP ON THE ACTIVATOR!

Hey, that's why the young guys kick my butt. It's isn't physical shape at all. They can actually remember. I'm going to quit working out and just start taking ginko.

OK, serious mode on: On the walk through, I establish which type of sight focus I'll be using on a particular target and the pace that I plan to be moving when I take the shot. The harder the sight focus, the slower I move. Just like other kinds of racing, plan where to shift gears, where you have to ease up, and where you can really nail it.

[Yardbird]

I usually do memorize them. Well enough to run them in my head without looking at the stage.

[Nik Habicht]

I establish which type of sight focus I'll be using on a particular target and the pace that I plan to be moving when I take the shot.

Sam,

that's priceless. There's so much stuff I program during the walkthrough --- but I never even considered thinking about this.....

[Nik Habicht]

It usually comes down to figuring out what I can see from where. If I'm approaching a port will I see one target much earlier than the others? Will I see one longer as I'm leaving the port? Is there a flowing order that suggests itself? My favorite ports are the ones where you can shoot something on the approach and something on departure, so you really never have to stop moving....

Sometimes as a production shooter it comes down to eliminating a few rounds from the end of a stage ---- because to do otherwise would require a static reload. Eliminating rounds might mean taking a longer shot earlier in the stage....

[shred]

I find I do best if I can visualize every target, and each sight picture on each target before I shoot. It doesn't always happen, but the more programming you can give your subconscious, the better off you'll be.

Some people are more footwork and movement focused-- they'll visualize each and every step through the COF as well. I usually let my feet do what they want unless there's something critical involved.

Somewhere around here Brian posted remembering exactly really-well shot stages long after the actual fact.

[Guest Larry Cazes]

I've only been into this sport for a year or so but lately on long field courses I've been trying to remember just the reload points and locations of entry into each array or position. I was taught when I first started, to remember and visualize as much of the stage details as possible and I found it to be limiting. Today we shot a 41 round field stage and I mostly shot it freestyle. Keeping things simple like this has helped me to progress quite a bit in the last few months.

[Steve Anderson]

I could draw every stage from the Buckeye Blast right now from memory and will be able to do so for a long time. I'm a big propent of visualization.

I also learned this weekend that once I can visualize the stage from memory, I don't need to (and should not) keep doing it endlessly.

SA

[TDean]

It depends on the stage complexity. If there are just open targets, then you really only have to remember a couple things, which one am I shooting first? which one am I shooting last? where am I reloading? On more complex stages like where targets are hidden around corners, you need to be able to close your eyes and imagine yourself turning every corner and acquiring every target.

After the walkthrough and before I shoot, I can tell you where every target is.

I don't worry too much about footwork unless there's trick to the stage.

IF you've got your basic footwork down (in and out of boxes, shooting on the move), it’s good to just let your subconscious take over so you don’t over-think the little things.

A day or two after the match, I doubt I could tell you where all the targets were, but knowing exactly where they are as you step to the line is paramount

[vluc]

I establish which type of sight focus I'll be using on a particular target and the pace that I plan to be moving when I take the shot.

Sam,

that's priceless. There's so much stuff I program during the walkthrough --- but I never even considered thinking about this.....

More than priceless...what a simple revelation....it highlights what I stopped doing a few weeks ago.

I could not put my finger on why some aspects of my shooting declined...saw it in a few spots at the Buckeye as well.

Wow...Thanks!!

[uscbigdawg]

D,

When I get to a stage, the first thing is to read the course description, completely and find the number of rounds on the stage. Then I'll walk through the stage and just verify the number of shots on the stage.

On the second pass, I'll start blocking out which shots are where, which shots will be static and which ones will be on the move.

Lastly, I'll go through the stage and note (and index) every target/steel in the stage and where any hazards are to where I can draw the stages from memory.

I played tennis in college (2-Div. 1 National titles) and one year on the ATP tour. We constantly trained visualizing our matches, our opponents and how we would engage the same. There have been tons of studies showing that with complete and proper visualization that the brain cannot distinguish between the visual image of something and it actually seeing it/doing it.

I remember that I was at dinner after a decent match with a known GM and he asked me to break down ever stage that we shot, and describe not only target position (i.e. upside down, right side up, angled, etc.) as well as locations of hard cover and no-shoots. On the stages that I did well, I could describe every target, box, barricade, etc. On the stages that I either crashed and burned on or finished marginally, I could get somewhere from 50-80% correct. Conclusion: If you can see it in your brain, you can execute much more cleanly under the clock.

Larry and I shot the same match that he describes above. One stage in particular that I won I was 3 seconds faster than the next shooter and it was simply because I saw and shot all the targets, before I got out of the chair and retrieved my gun.

Read, BE's book, as well as, "With Winning In Mind". Golf (in particular) and tennis mental training books are great too. Look for authors referring to Butch Harmon, etc.

Rich

[kdj]

I seem to have a different approach to the majority (That will surprize no one who knows me ).

I'll walk a stage and see what seems to be the "obvious" thing to do at each point, to shoot it. This is then my baseline. Then I'll explore all other possibilities including all the wierd and strange possibilities and see if any of them give an advantage over the obvious way. [in the last 3 matches, I've had stage designers add rules, faultlines, barricades, etc. after my asking if what I proposed to do was legal. Maybe I should just stop asking, do it and then see which rule it is they think I would have broken ]

Once I've explored all the possibilities and decided on the optimal strategy, I then look to see where it differs from the base line and "memorize" the change points. I don't have to memorize the "obvious" stuff since that's what I'd do by default if I was shooting the stage cold.

In my visualization, I run the whle stage using the "unnatural" points as the triggers/markers.

Works well for me since I have a very limited memory capacity and I get "stack overflow" when trying to memorize *everything* and end up losing targets

Kevin

[Guest Larry Cazes]

Rich, I just find that on a 30 to 40 round stage, there is just too much going on to remember the details of every shot. It is not only difficult to do but it is somewhat distracting from the goal of enjoying shooting the stage well.

[shred]

Rich, I just find that on a 30 to 40 round stage, there is just too much going on to remember the details of every shot.  It is not only difficult to do but it is somewhat distracting from the goal of enjoying shooting the stage well.

I think this sorta depends on your progress along the learning curve..

The M/GM folks (Steve A, TDean, etc) are seeing each and every shot. Where I'm at right now, visualizing what I'm going to see on each target, even on 30+ round stages, is crucial to me doing really well. But my GF (a newly minted 'C'-open shooter) is much better off just coming up with a solid 'move here, shoot those' plan and executing that.

Where you are in the learning process dictates what sort of visualizing and planning will be most beneficial to you. A super plan you can't remember or execute all of won't help much.

The point of the visualizing is to improve your execution. Do what needs to be done for that.

[Flexmoney]

This thread really is hitting home for me right now. We had a stage at the Buckeye Blast that bit my backside. I went into it comfortable with my plan, and ready to execute.

I had mentally went thru the stage with a crystal clear program of the amount of vision that I would use on every paper target. I even went so far as to name two of the up-close targets...the "ducks in the pond". I had a vision for all the targets...except two. There was a double swinger. Instead of "seeing" the double-swinger in my mind...I just lazily told myself to shoot the double swinger at a certain point in my program. I didn't give those targets equal billing.

Result...I flat-out forgot to shoot them. Cost me big time.

Great thread..great posts. Thanks for helping me out.

[slavex]

one thing I find totally useless is reading the match copy too much. Not sure how it works down south, but in our match copies we have a diagram of each stage. When I first started IPSC I would study each page religiously until I could almost redraw them from memory. I quickly determined that the only truly useful info in the match copy is the date, start time and round count. Once you get to a match the target layout and stage size is almost always different in some way, and if you are trying to lay out a plan ahead of time it ain't going to work.

But once at a match I do try to get around and snoop at each stage to see how they are setup. It's far too often that I will get home and realize a better way of shooting a stage. Hopefully with practice that will improve though.

[Steve Anderson]

I became a huge proponent of verbatim memory about 3 seconds after I had a smokin' run on a memory stage while running past the next to last target array in front of Cris Tilley, Max Michel, Blake Miguez, Travis Tomasie, the rest of the squad, and the throngs that gather to watch the aforementioned shooters. That's a powerful lesson and motivator to change.

I used to be in the rough sketch camp myself and ths works fine to a certain level.

However I noticed that Flex and I would discuss a stage and he would mention targets that I could not recall.With my new system it just won't happen.

Running stage 6 at the Buckeye was a great example...You could see MOST of the targets from any port, but there was no one place at the back wall to see EVERY target of the back. So if you got to the back wall and did not KNOW what you wanted to shoot from where, you were hunting and pecking. This is not a very fast way to shoot a stage.

On saturday, I saw about 5 guys who shot that stage with a sold plan and no hesitation...

SA