Jesse Tischauser Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 (edited) Is there anyone who can either confirm or deny this rumor with any certainty or are we chasing the Easter bunny around? I would take any rumors with a grain of salt as much and as rapidly as things have been changing all season. Edited November 10, 2011 by Jesse Tischauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 I would take any rumors with a grain of salt as much and as rapidly as things have been changing all season. Jesse, Master of the understated...I was thinking more like a tablespoon of salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbrowndog Posted November 10, 2011 Share Posted November 10, 2011 jesse does make a good point, just because it was stated, doesn't mean that's the way it will happen. I mean a lot of things were supposed to happen differently this year and they didn't. I simply passed the info along that I had heard????? secondhand. Trapr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gun4hire Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Im just wondering if 3Gun Nation will be around next year after the fiasco at Sundays shootoff. Most everybody left the shooting area when it was brought to chads attention that there was an error in the first matchup. Daniels first rifle plate didn't fall before he went on and finished the course. Chad told the 16 shooters, in their briefing, that the plate must fall to score and repeated that several times. The video clearly shows that Daniels first plate does not fall. The 3GN video shot over his shoulder, shows him engage the 1st rifle target, the next 2 flash targets, and the last rifle target, and then swing back to the first rifle target before ditching the rifle. If the error isn't corrected and the episode airs anyway, 3GN will have to answer a lot of questions and it will lose most, if not all, of its credibility. I hope the players in this make it right. 3GN has really helped the sport, it would be a shame to lose it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 The situation after the shoot off was unfortunate to say the least. I know I heard chad say all steal must fall. If that target didn't fall it would be very honorable for that person to come forward and do the right thing and bow out of the shoot off. In hind site, using NRA RSO's frim the range cadre and not some of the great RO's from the FNH match probably was a mistake. Live and learn there I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gun4hire Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I certainly can't disagree with anything you said. The original plan was to use RO's from the match for the shootoff which obviously didn't happen. Let's just hope that the people that need to do the honorable thing will man-up and do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gose Posted November 15, 2011 Author Share Posted November 15, 2011 (edited) The situation after the shoot off was unfortunate to say the least. I know I heard chad say all steal must fall. If that target didn't fall it would be very honorable for that person to come forward and do the right thing and bow out of the shoot off. In hind site, using NRA RSO's frim the range cadre and not some of the great RO's from the FNH match probably was a mistake. Live and learn there I guess. I'd say that using targets that required someone to call hits was the mistake. They should use frangible, knock-down or any other target that needs resetting. Im slightly confused though, since it sounded like all targets were hit... Was in mandatory to shoot the rifle targets in order and they were shot out of order? Edited November 15, 2011 by gose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gun4hire Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 The left target may have been hit. But if it was, it didn't fall. The targets are like a B/C zone auto popper. The target was either hit very low or it hit the target base. Either way, it did not move when Daniel shot at it. I guess by rule they were shot out of order because Daniel shot the stop plate/popper before he hit that rifle target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gun4hire Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Tommy didn't know for sure right away. I know it was brought to his attention. However, when he saw the video he had enough confirmation to go forward. Had he not seen a video, I think it may have never been brought to Chad's attention. I have the video he saw if you would like to see it. The HD video fom the cameras really shows it. It also shows Daniel come back to the first rifle target before ditching the rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I watched the run. Saw the target not go down. I looked over at the two guys I was standing with and asked them if I saw what I thought I saw. They both said it didn't go down. I'm sure both of them are familiar enough with the MGM Recon target to know whether it went down or not. I was the one yelling for Tommy to keep shooting at the end, knowing Daniel faulted. After the run the three RO's gathered up and I thought they were going to call it there. When they didn't I went over, after talking to the two guys I was with and making sure I wasn't seeing things, and told Tommy what I saw. As soon as the next bout was done he went to Pete. This was no more than two or three shooters later. Tommy had no way of knowing unless someone told him since he was busy with his own targets. By the end of the shootoffs Tommy had seen video that clearly showed the target not going over and again addressed Chad and Pete. I told Pete before stepping away that I had seen it and if he needed a living witness I was available. I then stepped away and watched the most disappointing series of events I've ever witnessed in practical shooting. Long story short, Daniel faulted on his run. It's unfortunate. He's an awesome competitor and just got going too quick. It's no different than when Katie or Dianna hit stop plates before finishing the course. They lose. I guess I can't say it's no different, because in this case 3 Gun Nation overlooked the unhit target for one shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benelli2 Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 (edited) I think the right answer is much simplier than that, but I can tell you from being behind one of those guns, that once you left the target and since the targets reset, it would be next to impossible to go back after and know if you had hit it or not, tough days! Edited November 15, 2011 by benelli2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 (edited) I think the right answer is much simplier than that, but I can tell you from being behind one of those guns, that once you left the target and since the targets reset, it would be next to impossible to go back after and know if you had hit it or not, tough days! That's a good point Jeff. If everyone was aware of the hit or miss and the target didnt fall why wasn't there a calibration? The fact of the matter here is that now there is a lot of money on the line. These sort of discrepincies happen when there is so much on the line. I'm kinda sorta starting to realize why the USPSA has a rule for every situation. I'm not attacking SGT Horner here. He is clearly the best shooter in our sport and should probably be in any shoot off there ever is going forward. I don't have a dog in the fight (well not anymore after forgetting to load my teammates rifle on his first fast run, sorry Kalani!). I am concerned about 3 Gun Nation and this sport being successful. Edited November 15, 2011 by Jesse Tischauser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Is anybody else as excited as I am about the possibility of current USPSA president Mike Voight and the presidential hopefully Phil Strader in a little man-on-man action in the 3 Gun Nation shoot offs? Talk about some good drama for TV! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Frankly I think all of the latent (or not so latent) jabs against Daniel and his father as very disturbing to me. Cowardly even, because these comments should be being made in a face to face meeting, not on a public forum. The people that were injured, or the witnesses of the incident, definately have a right to have their say, but everyone else should let this lie until all the facts come out. I don't know Brian, but he said pretty much what I was thinking. Let's cool it with the name calling and internet finger-pointing, lest this topic gets closed. Thanks... Your friendly neighborhood Moderating Team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abn-rgr Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 Let me preface this by saying I think what 3GN is doing for the sport is excellent. I think the big prize money is turning this into more of a job for some people and the fun factor is going out the window. The 3GN nation folks need to set these shoot offs up where they wont have these kinds of issues and its very simple to do, using the right targets. I remember back when everyone was one big happy family. Now Im seeing sides being taken place and its disheartening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan 45 Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 The first time I saw Brian Ray shoot at Blue Ridge it was stunning, he was so good, but he "foot faulted" -it was really lame. It s just turned into something like the WWF. It could be better. Thank you very much! But, just to clarify, after the 2nd round, we were warned that a foot outside the box while breaking a shot would be grounds for a DQ. On round 3, the RO called "foot" right before I broke the shot. I have video that even shows me shifting position after the call, but it was too late. Did I gain any unfair competitive advantage? No, but it was against the rules. The RO, whom I have come to respect very much, made the call as he should- unbiased. No shenanagins here. As to the topic, I did not see it occur, as I was talking to one of the 3GN guys to correct a scoring issue on one of my stages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I don't know Brian, but he said pretty much what I was thinking. Let's cool it with the name calling and internet finger-pointing, lest this topic gets closed. Thanks... Your friendly neighborhood Moderating Team Is no Internet finger pointing officially in the forum rules? I just want to correct my earlier comment about Daniel doing the honorable thing. I can only assume (because he hasnt called me yet) that is why he posted what he posted directed at me. I was there I saw the discussions after the match. What I should have said was that if Daniel would have given his spot to Tommy right there on the spot and then let 3GN decide from there what to do he would have made the most honorable gesture he could have. I don't blame Daniel for not giving up his spot I would have had a death grip on one if i had it too. Daniel did offer to reshoot the deal since there was an issue. That was a very honorable thing to do! Unfortunately a reshoot isn't fair to Tommy if he had actually won the first time. Now that it's all in the past there isn't much we can do but wish it would have been done differently and do it right next time. I didn't witness "the shot" first hand but I have the video which I'll post later. At this point this situation has 3 possible endings. Daniel can say I'm out it didn't fall. 3GN can say Daniels out it didn't fall. Or Daniel, Tommy and 3GN can come up with some way to make everything peachy so Daniel and Tommy can both shoot in Vegas. The way I see it 3GN has all the footage they need to add some Top Shot type drama to the show which as we all know is what makes reality TV so fun to watch nowadays. Heck this maybe the best thing to happen to the show! Heck since its quite obvious that Daniel and I are now enemies. I'd be up for some on camera name calling and maybe some finger pointing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 somebody post a video of this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38supPat Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I don't know Brian, but he said pretty much what I was thinking. Let's cool it with the name calling and internet finger-pointing, lest this topic gets closed. Thanks... Your friendly neighborhood Moderating Team Is no Internet finger pointing officially in the forum rules? Yup. Rants involving shooters, firearms, or shooting related manufacturers, such as but not limited to - IPSC, IDPA, USPSA, Colt, Brownell's, Dillon, or Match Staff - are NOT PERMITTED. Brian's Forums is not the place to resolve customer service issues or disputes you may have with a manufacturer, dealer, gunsmith, or individual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Tischauser Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I don't know Brian, but he said pretty much what I was thinking. Let's cool it with the name calling and internet finger-pointing, lest this topic gets closed. Thanks... Your friendly neighborhood Moderating Team Is no Internet finger pointing officially in the forum rules? Yup. Rants involving shooters, firearms, or shooting related manufacturers, such as but not limited to - IPSC, IDPA, USPSA, Colt, Brownell's, Dillon, or Match Staff - are NOT PERMITTED. Brian's Forums is not the place to resolve customer service issues or disputes you may have with a manufacturer, dealer, gunsmith, or individual. I never was any good at all that readin' and writin' but I can't see anywhere in there were it says specifically "finger pointing". You gotta be more clear when it comes to rules with this crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gose Posted November 15, 2011 Author Share Posted November 15, 2011 something completely different... Are the scores for the shoot-off match posted anywhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Merricks Posted November 15, 2011 Share Posted November 15, 2011 I think it was made clear enough. Post that were considered as rants against fellow shooters have been removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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