Chrono for major match

[AlamoShooter]

Something to bear in mind, at A2 there is a huge temperature swing from the first squads which start at 6something AM and it's just above freezing to the afternoon when it can be in the 80's with IMR 4756 this can drastically change your pf.

I don't know much, but I do know at every A2 I have shot in the Crono is allways lower than other event I have shot. 6 times I watch friends go minor

[Ofishl1]

For 7 plus years, I had one recipe--it always produced a 170+ PF no matter where I went; 180 grains, VV 320

I did a slight change for some three gun matches.

Now I shoot 200 grains Zero, VV320.

Essentially all my ammo is the same.

I load on a 1050 so I like doing thousands of rounds at a time. It is just so much easier to have one recipe that way I do not have to change anything. About the only thing I do, is check to ensure different lots of VV320 produce about the same results. IMO, I have not seen any statistical difference between lots of VV320 over the years.

That is exactly what I am shooting thru my Edge with Zeros, and I think the Zeros should weigh out okay,.. I do have a Chrono and think the advice of loading now is prudent, its still hot in Phx, so I thought maybe a major temp drop by the time we get to Nov may affect my loads and was going to wait until the end of oct, think not, so I am going to try to hit 175pf with this combo and hope for the best at chrono...I think 917fps is the target for 165, but there always are some rounds that run 20-30 fps slower for some reason,..I just hope those rounds are not all in the first row of rounds I offer for test...

[Ofishl1]

"I plan...to confirm I'm still good that Thursday, and go home and crank out 500 rounds feeling pretty confident I will be close...."

A suggestion from the cautious.

I'd prep your match ammo now. If your press goes down tomorrow, you have time to get it up and running and still have your ammo ready. If you have no ammo and your press breaks the night before the match, well...

sound advice....thx.

[lawboy]

Why would anyone be switching around the Dillon so they can shoot two or more loads?

Get the 550/650/1050 set up for a load you KNOW will make major anywhere. Leave it alone and shoot that load all the time. Not only will it ensure no surprises at matches, but you will ultimately get that much better with your gun/load combo. because it will always be the same.

I cut it close on chronograph one time at a big match. I made it, but barely.

I now load to 175pf in 45ACP. I have had no more surprises!

[Sarge]

I've never understood "match ammo". All my ammo is match ammo. Everytime I shoot, every match, my ammo is the same. I do believe that the more/better you get the more you'll want everything the same, always.

I also think, from going minor at A6 after an 800 mile drive one way, that 5PF over is not enough. I prefer 8-10PF over for my ammo. At Indiana State I went 173.something. Same ammo/load at Ohio was a little more than 2PF less.

When I went minor at A6 my load was 171 or so at home on my Chrono. I went 164.7 or so at the match. That's a 6PF difference between different Chrono's.

8-10 PF over and never change your load, always shoot your match ammo. Even practicing/local matches. Just my .02cents.

Amen. I load one load and one load only. I am very into QC as well. I drop check all my ammo before boxing it up as well. I know my ammo will work at a match no matter where it is.

Also, I get such a kick out of the free entertainment at Chrono stages. It is beyond me why anybody would want to be sweating bullets for no good reason.

[Nik Habicht]

Why would anyone be switching around the Dillon so they can shoot two or more loads?

Get the 550/650/1050 set up for a load you KNOW will make major anywhere. Leave it alone and shoot that load all the time. Not only will it ensure no surprises at matches, but you will ultimately get that much better with your gun/load combo. because it will always be the same.

I cut it close on chronograph one time at a big match. I made it, but barely.

I now load to 175pf in 45ACP. I have had no more surprises!

I know folks who shoot .40 in both production and limited divisions -- as such, they are changing the load, to comply with the division recognized and desired power factors....

It's need driven....

[waktasz]

I shoot the same powder charge and just switch bullets. 200gr moly makes 175pf and 180 CMJ makes 135pf.

[kevin c]

I shoot the same powder charge and just switch bullets. 200gr moly makes 175pf and 180 CMJ makes 135pf.

Neat trick! Do you have to adjust the OAL, or do you run with the same seating die setting for both loads?

[waktasz]

Everything the same except the bullet

[Ofishl1]

Pete has informed us that he will be setup after the 10/22 & 10/23 weekend matches with the official chrono. Except for temp variations, this would be you best way to test.

I am going out to chrono tomorrow the 100 rounds I have loaded, who is Pete? ...and where will he be doing this chrono work?

[Ofishl1]

For added insurance its good to load so that each and every round makes at least 165 pf. If you load to 170 or so pf, even a slow round should chrono above 165 and then some. If with a 10 shot string you get 170+ pf you're good to go. Also be sure to use new or 1X fired same headstamp brass for faster and more consistent velocities. I use Vit N320 in my major match loads also. I believe the temp sensitivity is normal, like velocity slows down when it gets colder but I may be wrong.

Once fired brass is better than new because you know it will fire. Even new factory brass has sometimes been produced without a flash hole.

All my .40 brass has been shot 2-3 times, there are a ton of Winchester in the mix so I have been culling those from all the Federal, Speer, Starlines, and planed to try and use only those for the match since its the largest quantity of the stamps.

But now I find I should plan on at least 300 rounds just for the match,...so I went out and bought 300 new Starlines and plan to run those, (checking every one for a hole) and add another 200 of the used Winchesters so I can keep it to 2 head stamps.

I will Chrono both cases loaded up with the V320 and the 180 zeros,..I will at least find out how close to the PF or over I am on the charge...I have heard that 4.9 may be enough. Its still hot, but temps may drop by match day, so I am going for the advice of 175PF.

[Jim Norman]

new brass, no flash hole? If you lube it all up and run it through your press the same way you would X-Times fired brass you should never have a problem, the decapping pin will either go through the flash hole OR it will push up out of the die letting you know that you don't have a flash hole.

Then load it all up and fire it once and you'll have the perfect starting point for your match ammo.

As for Chrono, develop your load, chrono it over a CED, not that the others aren't as good, but CED is what is used at most matches, use the IR lights and make yourself a simple box out of cardboard. You can use a lawn tractor battery to power the IR lights, you don't need a generator or an interface.

Make sure your PF is at least 5-8 above the floor, you should never go wrong, Repeat chrono for each new jug of powder and weigh a sample of bullets from each new case.

Have fun.

[Ofishl1]

Thanks Jim, I thought the same thing about the flash hole, but have never had one go thru the press, so never considered it...

I am not sure where bullet weight is a factor, since I cant control it or why it would be relevant to know, however when it did make it relevant to me was last night after reading all your posts... I weighed 10 rounds from a fresh box of Zero's and they range from 179.3 to 180.2, OKAY...what is more disturbing though is the 10-13 rounds I weighed after loading my proposed "match" mixture, and find 252.0... to 254.3 low-high!

(i used all the same hdstamp) that concerns me most of all since it is a powder charge deviation no doubt and that would produce some wild swings at the Chrono, I have a new powder measure I bought for my Dillon and I am going to drop that on and start over, then weigh, check etc,..

Edited October 19, 2011 by Ofishl1

[Jim Norman]

Individual cases will vary in weight as well as bullets. Precision Rifle shooters weigh every component and sort them in to groups. If you weigh 20 .40 cal cases you will get a variance of 1-3 grains same as the 1 grain difference in bullets. Add it all up and it can be 2-4 grains differential low to high.

[Ofishl1]

Individual cases will vary in weight as well as bullets. Precision Rifle shooters weigh every component and sort them in to groups. If you weigh 20 .40 cal cases you will get a variance of 1-3 grains same as the 1 grain difference in bullets. Add it all up and it can be 2-4 grains differential low to high.

Good point Jim, Cases are the only item I didnt weigh, which may explain some of the spread, I think it was more the loader to get almost a full 1.0 spread, but Im sure it contributes, I just got back from the range and chrono'd the winchester brass w/ 180g Zero's and they came out with an average of 169PF, then I went to the Starlines, same bullet but with a 1-2 grain upcharge and the speed change was dramatic, speed shot up and the PF averaged out to 175,...so I think that may be the "safe zone" to stick with just in case we have a major temp drop in the next few weeks before the match..I also loaded the OAL out a little longer for this increase in powder, but I notice a strange looking shape to some of the holes, kinda oblong looking,...I mean they went where I aimed, but now I am wondering if they started to tumble at the longer seat....

hmmm.. lot of variables going on here......

[ima45dv8]

You can't weigh loaded rounds to get an idea of your consistency. Even within a manufacturer's lot there's simply too much variance in case weight.

They're all stamped the same. But they don't weigh the same.

[lawboy]

Why would anyone be switching around the Dillon so they can shoot two or more loads?

Get the 550/650/1050 set up for a load you KNOW will make major anywhere. Leave it alone and shoot that load all the time. Not only will it ensure no surprises at matches, but you will ultimately get that much better with your gun/load combo. because it will always be the same.

I cut it close on chronograph one time at a big match. I made it, but barely.

I now load to 175pf in 45ACP. I have had no more surprises!

I know folks who shoot .40 in both production and limited divisions -- as such, they are changing the load, to comply with the division recognized and desired power factors....

It's need driven....

Now that I do understand.

[pjb45]

*******************************

Pete Carstensen

Mesa, AZ

AZ Real Section Coordinator

USPSA L-2647 NROI CRO/MG

Rio Salado Practical Pistol - www.RioPractical.com

RSSC Website - www.RioSaladoSportsmans.com

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Get ahold of Pete and use the match chrono setup to ensure your ammo makes major.

Contact info for A2 Chrono can be obtained from the above.

I shoot range brass. I get it from an LEO friend. I never worry about measuring the volume of the case, too much effort. My loads are so consistent I rarely worry. Voight once said, load to a +5 power factor and you do not have to worry. That is what I strive for, 5 over=170PF. I rarely chrono over 10-15 rounds. I not see a need to chrono a 100 rounds. Do seven sets of three. Record all the info, and transfer it to an excel spreadsheet. Do your analysis.

NM and AZ are similar but not the same temperatures. AZ A2 can get cold in the morning. So if you are chronoing in the AM, make sure your ammo is warmed up. That means do not leave it in the car overnight.

I typically chrono in sets of three, because that is the way they do it. I may do a lot of sets but I never end up with a set of three being below Major. When I average individual numbers for many sets I still make major. My conclusion is I do not worry about sorting brass headstamps.

To be blunt, you do not need a 175 power factor if your chrono is close in accuracy to the match chrono. I am just a mediocre shooter and I can tell the difference between 175 and 170.

My lots of VV320 have not shown to effect my velocities on the average.

It is good to be anal about this in the beginning but in time you will figure out exactly what you need, then be comfortable in that knowledge.

Edited October 21, 2011 by pjb45

[Ofishl1]

*******************************

Pete Carstensen

Mesa, AZ

AZ Real Section Coordinator

USPSA L-2647 NROI CRO/MG

Rio Salado Practical Pistol - www.RioPractical.com

RSSC Website - www.RioSaladoSportsmans.com

In order to ensure that official communications from Rio Salado Practical Pistol are delivered, please add webmaster@riopractical.com to your address book or known recipients. If you would like to remove or change your email address, or have any other questions, please send an email to webmaster@riopractical.com.

Get ahold of Pete and use the match chrono setup to ensure your ammo makes major.

Contact info for A2 Chrono can be obtained from the above.

I shoot range brass. I get it from an LEO friend. I never worry about measuring the volume of the case, too much effort. My loads are so consistent I rarely worry. Voight once said, load to a +5 power factor and you do not have to worry. That is what I strive for, 5 over=170PF. I rarely chrono over 10-15 rounds. I not see a need to chrono a 100 rounds. Do seven sets of three. Record all the info, and transfer it to an excel spreadsheet. Do your analysis.

NM and AZ are similar but not the same temperatures. AZ A2 can get cold in the morning. So if you are chronoing in the AM, make sure your ammo is warmed up. That means do not leave it in the car overnight.

I typically chrono in sets of three, because that is the way they do it. I may do a lot of sets but I never end up with a set of three being below Major. When I average individual numbers for many sets I still make major. My conclusion is I do not worry about sorting brass headstamps.

To be blunt, you do not need a 175 power factor if your chrono is close in accuracy to the match chrono. I am just a mediocre shooter and I can tell the difference between 175 and 170.

My lots of VV320 have not shown to effect my velocities on the average.

It is good to be anal about this in the beginning but in time you will figure out exactly what you need, then be comfortable in that knowledge.

my post didnt come thru on the phone..I talked to Angus at Ghost today when I was over there, he and Rob said the same thing, I should load to 170, and make sure that is the min of the averages, another thing I find is a lot guys are loading Hollow points, he said they are inherently more accurate, and with all the same brass the Chrono readings should be closer together than the wild swings I was getting....I would have never thought that, so I bought some Rainier HP 180g to Chrono and test...(cant find Zero's, try Hornady maybe?)

Anyway, thanks for the info pj..

Edited October 22, 2011 by Ofishl1

[pjb45]

Try Montana Gold. Good bullets. I prefer Zeros. I usually buy a years supply from Angus.

[Ofishl1]

Thanks PJ, I found 180g Hp at Montana and bought 1000, hopefully they come in before the match, no Zeros to be had at Roze and I was at Angus place friday, Rob sold out as I walked in,...I did by 500 Rainier 180 HP's at Dillon to shoot at a match today and Chrono, I found all the "NEW" Starline brass I loaded up ran slower (166-168PF) than the 2-3 time fired WIN brass (170-172),...so there is an apparent diff with new brass,(someone prob already said that somewhere).

So I have 3 more local matches before A2, I am going to fire all of my Starline and reload it with the same exact charge that the WINS got me 170pf, I think I will be good to go...probably over anal, but I dont really want to be shoved into MINOR in my first Major and have to shoot up 300 rounds of brass at a high load in minor div, ...I considering loading and equal amount in a minor or "steel" load just in case...

I assume they would have to chrono that as well..

(spell edit, I type 150 wds a minute......in my own language)

Edited October 23, 2011 by Ofishl1

[Maksim]

Went minor at Area 8 because of temperature swing using WSF. Switched to N320, no more problems. 5.1 grains of n320 made 168.9 today at a local match, made 169.5 at Nationals, and 171 when I chrono'ed it.

I do believe as the hopper is less than 1/2 full, it drops less powder.

[Ofishl1]

Went minor at Area 8 because of temperature swing using WSF. Switched to N320, no more problems. 5.1 grains of n320 made 168.9 today at a local match, made 169.5 at Nationals, and 171 when I rchrono'ed it.ue

I do believe as the hopper is less than 1/2 full, it drops less powder.

What was the temp when you changed?, Im running Vit 320 also...yes, 1/2 full, Dillon tells me the same thing on my 550, I buffed my powder bowl out that helped, and there is a local guy named Unique-Tek that sells a cut aluminum v shape that drops down in the tube and meters the powder flow on the bottom better, it changes the flow to more even dispersion at the bottom, I tried it for running on my local match loader, seemed to drop better down to a 1/4 tank of Vit320...so I may drop one in the new Major match loader too and put on an MRDial for charge control too, looking good,,,,..

[Maksim]

Temperature change was about 20 degrees, plus the ammo was baking in the son for a full day. =P

[Skydiver]

Temperature change was about 20 degrees, plus the ammo was baking in the son for a full day. =P

If the ammo was baking in the sun, then the chrono station was not following the rule book. See Appendix C2.31.