Alaskapopo Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 I have used many 1-4x scopes and in your budget there is not much room for choice. First of all don't buy a crappy Larue mount for almost $200 when the other guys who told you to buy one didn't give even care that you said you were on a budget and talking about a cheaper scope. First of all even if you had the money to buy a good mount go with anything but larue. (ADM, BOBRO, Seekins, Badger) all make good rings and mounts. Now the Millet will be your best choice in the budget if you want to save a bit for a mount. Millets and the mount can run used as a package for about $300 and under. The TAC-30 is a good scope for the money also. I have used ACOGS and would never use one for 3-gun or any competition shooting. The 1-4x line is good but there is better for cheaper. I like the Burris XTRs but more money than you want to spend. The Vortex line is looking good and the SS series is looking even better for the 3-gun area. If I were you I would go for a Millet DMS or a TAC-30 in a burris PEPR mount and have some fun shooting. Larue mounts are not crappy. They are the best in the buisness when it comes to QD scope mounts. I have never had an issue with any of the Larue mounts I own. They work better than anything else I have tried including ADM and Badger. (I have not tried Seekins and Bobro) Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strangedays Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 I have used many 1-4x scopes and in your budget there is not much room for choice. First of all don't buy a crappy Larue mount for almost $200 when the other guys who told you to buy one didn't give even care that you said you were on a budget and talking about a cheaper scope. First of all even if you had the money to buy a good mount go with anything but larue. (ADM, BOBRO, Seekins, Badger) all make good rings and mounts. Now the Millet will be your best choice in the budget if you want to save a bit for a mount. Millets and the mount can run used as a package for about $300 and under. The TAC-30 is a good scope for the money also. I have used ACOGS and would never use one for 3-gun or any competition shooting. The 1-4x line is good but there is better for cheaper. I like the Burris XTRs but more money than you want to spend. The Vortex line is looking good and the SS series is looking even better for the 3-gun area. If I were you I would go for a Millet DMS or a TAC-30 in a burris PEPR mount and have some fun shooting. Larue mounts are not crappy. They are the best in the buisness when it comes to QD scope mounts. I have never had an issue with any of the Larue mounts I own. They work better than anything else I have tried including ADM and Badger. (I have not tried Seekins and Bobro) Pat Real world tests have proved otherwise on LArue products and many tests done have came up with the same results, there mounts are Not the best in the business! Bobro and ADM are better any day of the week. I would put Larue mounts along side with the new Burris PEPR QD mount. Both do the same thing but after so many times they lose zero. Plus I like ADM and Bobro since they don't dig into the metel when torqing down. Common sense would have to kick in at some point and have people realize that when something digs into the metel it causes a point of shift after a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BHE Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Millet DMS or a Burris TAC-30 are excellent choices Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomfab Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 Plus I like ADM and Bobro since they don't dig into the metel when torqing down. Common sense would have to kick in at some point and have people realize that when something digs into the metel it causes a point of shift after a while. Mine Larue mounts are snugged up extremely tight. They don't dig into the receiver at all. Larue puts a silvery grease on the contact points to aid lock/unlock. Some people mistake the grease for wear though the anodizing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bagdrag Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 I have had zero issues w/ my Larue mount. No torquing down on metal and no loss of zero. Larue is a great supporter of both the shooting sports and 2ndAm rights. Products are at the top as well. Not the cheapest but one of the best. If on a tight budget Burris PEPR is not a bad option but mounts should be a buy once cry once purchase. (Btw, I have used Burris Tactical mounts and rings on a bolt gun and it is definitely a 'cry' for me. I may have to try another setup soon.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted July 18, 2011 Share Posted July 18, 2011 (edited) I have used many 1-4x scopes and in your budget there is not much room for choice. First of all don't buy a crappy Larue mount for almost $200 when the other guys who told you to buy one didn't give even care that you said you were on a budget and talking about a cheaper scope. First of all even if you had the money to buy a good mount go with anything but larue. (ADM, BOBRO, Seekins, Badger) all make good rings and mounts. Now the Millet will be your best choice in the budget if you want to save a bit for a mount. Millets and the mount can run used as a package for about $300 and under. The TAC-30 is a good scope for the money also. I have used ACOGS and would never use one for 3-gun or any competition shooting. The 1-4x line is good but there is better for cheaper. I like the Burris XTRs but more money than you want to spend. The Vortex line is looking good and the SS series is looking even better for the 3-gun area. If I were you I would go for a Millet DMS or a TAC-30 in a burris PEPR mount and have some fun shooting. Larue mounts are not crappy. They are the best in the buisness when it comes to QD scope mounts. I have never had an issue with any of the Larue mounts I own. They work better than anything else I have tried including ADM and Badger. (I have not tried Seekins and Bobro) Pat Real world tests have proved otherwise on LArue products and many tests done have came up with the same results, there mounts are Not the best in the business! Bobro and ADM are better any day of the week. I would put Larue mounts along side with the new Burris PEPR QD mount. Both do the same thing but after so many times they lose zero. Plus I like ADM and Bobro since they don't dig into the metel when torqing down. Common sense would have to kick in at some point and have people realize that when something digs into the metel it causes a point of shift after a while. In my real world tests have shown Larue to work as advertized. I have used them hard on my patrol guns and on my game guns for the last 8 years with no issues at all. That is multiple removals and from the rifle for cleaning and swapping optics and putting them back on. That is banging them in training and at matches. Larue's stuff works. Pat Edited July 18, 2011 by Alaskapopo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3gunpinoy Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 I have used many 1-4x scopes and in your budget there is not much room for choice. First of all don't buy a crappy Larue mount for almost $200 when the other guys who told you to buy one didn't give even care that you said you were on a budget and talking about a cheaper scope. First of all even if you had the money to buy a good mount go with anything but larue. (ADM, BOBRO, Seekins, Badger) all make good rings and mounts. Now the Millet will be your best choice in the budget if you want to save a bit for a mount. Millets and the mount can run used as a package for about $300 and under. The TAC-30 is a good scope for the money also. I have used ACOGS and would never use one for 3-gun or any competition shooting. The 1-4x line is good but there is better for cheaper. I like the Burris XTRs but more money than you want to spend. The Vortex line is looking good and the SS series is looking even better for the 3-gun area. If I were you I would go for a Millet DMS or a TAC-30 in a burris PEPR mount and have some fun shooting. Larue mounts are not crappy. They are the best in the buisness when it comes to QD scope mounts. I have never had an issue with any of the Larue mounts I own. They work better than anything else I have tried including ADM and Badger. (I have not tried Seekins and Bobro) Pat Real world tests have proved otherwise on LArue products and many tests done have came up with the same results, there mounts are Not the best in the business! Bobro and ADM are better any day of the week. I would put Larue mounts along side with the new Burris PEPR QD mount. Both do the same thing but after so many times they lose zero. Plus I like ADM and Bobro since they don't dig into the metel when torqing down. Common sense would have to kick in at some point and have people realize that when something digs into the metel it causes a point of shift after a while. In my real world tests have shown Larue to work as advertized. I have used them hard on my patrol guns and on my game guns for the last 8 years with no issues at all. That is multiple removals and from the rifle for cleaning and swapping optics and putting them back on. That is banging them in training and at matches. Larue's stuff works. Pat I had Larue mounts on my ta11 and tr21 and had them for years. I, too notice those "shiny" surface, but that does not change any form of poi/poa. so IMHO, Larue are great mounts. I had Badger Ordinance and Warne on my Ar10 and using Leupold Vx3. for about a year, i was figuring out why my POA / POI shifted after a few hundred rounds. I was able to strip the Warne threads trying to tigheten it and after a replacement unit, still could not get my sights dialed in for good. so out with the Warne and in with the Badger, much better, it held zero pretty fast. BUT , for me, why i like the larue, it simple becuase it does the longer offset of the scope further out as compared to the badgers. thats it! so if you like a closer scope, then go witht he badger, if you like a longer eye relief, then Larues are good ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rundownfid Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 I have used many 1-4x scopes and in your budget there is not much room for choice. First of all don't buy a crappy Larue mount for almost $200 when the other guys who told you to buy one didn't give even care that you said you were on a budget and talking about a cheaper scope. First of all even if you had the money to buy a good mount go with anything but larue. (ADM, BOBRO, Seekins, Badger) all make good rings and mounts. Now the Millet will be your best choice in the budget if you want to save a bit for a mount. Millets and the mount can run used as a package for about $300 and under. The TAC-30 is a good scope for the money also. I have used ACOGS and would never use one for 3-gun or any competition shooting. The 1-4x line is good but there is better for cheaper. I like the Burris XTRs but more money than you want to spend. The Vortex line is looking good and the SS series is looking even better for the 3-gun area. If I were you I would go for a Millet DMS or a TAC-30 in a burris PEPR mount and have some fun shooting. Larue mounts are not crappy. They are the best in the buisness when it comes to QD scope mounts. I have never had an issue with any of the Larue mounts I own. They work better than anything else I have tried including ADM and Badger. (I have not tried Seekins and Bobro) Pat Real world tests have proved otherwise on LArue products and many tests done have came up with the same results, there mounts are Not the best in the business! Bobro and ADM are better any day of the week. I would put Larue mounts along side with the new Burris PEPR QD mount. Both do the same thing but after so many times they lose zero. Plus I like ADM and Bobro since they don't dig into the metel when torqing down. Common sense would have to kick in at some point and have people realize that when something digs into the metel it causes a point of shift after a while. What "real world tests" would that be? I believe it is "common knowledge" that LaRue is excellent if pricy. Your claim is that they are not, do you have evidence or only opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninemmbill Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Other than being expensive, I have never heard anyone with anything bad to say about LaRue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OPENB Posted July 19, 2011 Share Posted July 19, 2011 Wow, bad mouthing Larue, but recommending the Millet DMS. Just wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strangedays Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Wow, bad mouthing Larue, but recommending the Millet DMS. Just wow. See this is what I mean you have people like you that don't put everything together that missed what was said to make what you think is a valid point. The questions asked was for a cheap "ON A BUDGET SCOPE" so I told him which ones will work on his budget. I didn't start throwing out scope mounts that cost as much as he wanted to spend on the scope alone. I would like to see anyone on here do a write up of the BOBRO and ADM without all the biased Larue butt slapps and look at the three mounts side by side. ADM and Bobro will always win against the larue setup. I think your post above shows the average Larue buyer, because someone said they were the best I will buy without any actual fact on why or if there is anything better. You are the guy who has never tasted anything but vannila so its your favorite and no others can compare. So next time you wish to post a "quote" why not look at the source and why the comments have been made instead of adding your 2 cents worth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
03k64 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I have the Tac30 in an ADM mount and that combo is working well for me. FWIW, I have a Larue mount for my Aimpoint and it's a solid mount too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUSHARP2 Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I ran a millet for a while and recently upgraded. In my opinion it was a good starter but if you shoot often, you will out grow it quickly. I used it occasionally for about 2 years and monthly for about 1 year. Once I hit the regular monthly matches, I could tell that I needed something else. I needed some serious eye relief, might be that my scope was a gen 2 I think and the newer have a little better eye relief. I was thinking about the tac-30, as I was able to play with one at a match, would be a great starter but they are a little hard to find now. A solid mount wont be a bad investment as it will last. As for the mount... I bought a package with a Bobro mount. Seems like it is going to solid mount. Only thing I dont like is the fact that they do vertical screws. It made it a little difficult to get the scope mounted. LaRue and others have horizontal... seems like it would be easier to do horizontal. just my 2 cents. Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OPENB Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Wow, bad mouthing Larue, but recommending the Millet DMS. Just wow. See this is what I mean you have people like you that don't put everything together that missed what was said to make what you think is a valid point. The questions asked was for a cheap "ON A BUDGET SCOPE" so I told him which ones will work on his budget. I didn't start throwing out scope mounts that cost as much as he wanted to spend on the scope alone. I would like to see anyone on here do a write up of the BOBRO and ADM without all the biased Larue butt slapps and look at the three mounts side by side. ADM and Bobro will always win against the larue setup. I think your post above shows the average Larue buyer, because someone said they were the best I will buy without any actual fact on why or if there is anything better. You are the guy who has never tasted anything but vannila so its your favorite and no others can compare. So next time you wish to post a "quote" why not look at the source and why the comments have been made instead of adding your 2 cents worth. You're right in that he did ask about budget scopes, and nobody mentioned mounts until you started with "crappy" Larue comments. It appears you are the one with the bias. You were asked several times to put up or shut up, and all we got was "real world" blabla. Let's see it. You assume because I stood up for Larue, I'm a fan boy. I sold my Laure SPRE and now run the ADM ScoutX, not because it was "crappy", but because I can get more rail space behind the ADM with it's single lever to add a DD 1* offset off the left side. I almost went for the SPRE without QD levers, but saw the ScoutX was QD and cheaper. Like them both, both are quality. But I don't run down a company in a public forum without backing it up. I guess if someone starts a "Who makes a crappy mount" thread, we know who will be first in line to respond. OP, back to your question. I too started with a DMS. You will outgrow it quickly if you do much of this. I actually tried two of them to get a decent one. Quality can be hit/miss. I tried the TAC30, but just didn't like the reticle. I picked up a Burris XTR14 on the classified, and love it. Recommend you watch the classifieds for good deals. The CMR looks interesting, but have no 1st hand experience with it. I liked my Meopta Kdot too, sometimes they come up for $500-$600 used. I sold my last one for $525. The classic answer for a quality starter scope is the Weaver V3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strangedays Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Wow, bad mouthing Larue, but recommending the Millet DMS. Just wow. See this is what I mean you have people like you that don't put everything together that missed what was said to make what you think is a valid point. The questions asked was for a cheap "ON A BUDGET SCOPE" so I told him which ones will work on his budget. I didn't start throwing out scope mounts that cost as much as he wanted to spend on the scope alone. I would like to see anyone on here do a write up of the BOBRO and ADM without all the biased Larue butt slapps and look at the three mounts side by side. ADM and Bobro will always win against the larue setup. I think your post above shows the average Larue buyer, because someone said they were the best I will buy without any actual fact on why or if there is anything better. You are the guy who has never tasted anything but vannila so its your favorite and no others can compare. So next time you wish to post a "quote" why not look at the source and why the comments have been made instead of adding your 2 cents worth. You're right in that he did ask about budget scopes, and nobody mentioned mounts until you started with "crappy" Larue comments. It appears you are the one with the bias. You were asked several times to put up or shut up, and all we got was "real world" blabla. Let's see it. You assume because I stood up for Larue, I'm a fan boy. I sold my Laure SPRE and now run the ADM ScoutX, not because it was "crappy", but because I can get more rail space behind the ADM with it's single lever to add a DD 1* offset off the left side. I almost went for the SPRE without QD levers, but saw the ScoutX was QD and cheaper. Like them both, both are quality. But I don't run down a company in a public forum without backing it up. I guess if someone starts a "Who makes a crappy mount" thread, we know who will be first in line to respond. OP, back to your question. I too started with a DMS. You will outgrow it quickly if you do much of this. I actually tried two of them to get a decent one. Quality can be hit/miss. I tried the TAC30, but just didn't like the reticle. I picked up a Burris XTR14 on the classified, and love it. Recommend you watch the classifieds for good deals. The CMR looks interesting, but have no 1st hand experience with it. I liked my Meopta Kdot too, sometimes they come up for $500-$600 used. I sold my last one for $525. The classic answer for a quality starter scope is the Weaver V3. If you wish to be educated why not do a quick search on Larue products from precision shooters and talk to me about a good product. SOrry if I set my standards higher. I have already done torture test reviews on all three mounts. I didn't start the comments on the mounts that was a response to the person who said buy a larue. I also shoot with a XTR 1-4 and think it is a great scope. The Larue mounts don't have a consistent torque setting The split rings have to be loctited because they loosen all the time, The throw levers mar and damage the rails (this is not grease) after so many de-mounts the maring will change the POI. The split rings block the scope adjustment when behind the rifle. I know there is a large Larue following but in the last three years we have seen better mounts enter the market to buy a what used to be a good mount is no longer the best and at the same cost we can buy better. Larue makes a strong mount that if not being removed off the rifle all the time is a fine mount but at the same costs I can get better. I just won't sit back and let everyone tell a new guy to buy a larue mount when he is for one on a budget and two he can buy better for cheaper. JMHO sorry for the firestorm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OPENB Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I do like the spring loaded levers on the ADM, and the tool-less adjustments are nice. The lower price is nice too. But both my ADM mounts came with tubes of lock tite, so not sure they are different in that regard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrgwn Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I have just recieved my decent but cheap scope&mounts and its a weaver v3 and burris P.E.P.R. QD . Still waiting for the rifle so i cant comment on the shooting performances. But the scope itself looks really good, crisp glass, true 1x magnification (!!!!!) and good eye relief and reticle. On the edges its a little fish-eye-sy, but its hardly noticable and the magnification ring is kind of hard to turn, better than too loose i guess... The Burris PEPR QD mounts are probably the best in the price range, very nicely build and i just cant wait to mount the scope on the rifle and start plinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Wow, bad mouthing Larue, but recommending the Millet DMS. Just wow. See this is what I mean you have people like you that don't put everything together that missed what was said to make what you think is a valid point. The questions asked was for a cheap "ON A BUDGET SCOPE" so I told him which ones will work on his budget. I didn't start throwing out scope mounts that cost as much as he wanted to spend on the scope alone. I would like to see anyone on here do a write up of the BOBRO and ADM without all the biased Larue butt slapps and look at the three mounts side by side. ADM and Bobro will always win against the larue setup. I think your post above shows the average Larue buyer, because someone said they were the best I will buy without any actual fact on why or if there is anything better. You are the guy who has never tasted anything but vannila so its your favorite and no others can compare. So next time you wish to post a "quote" why not look at the source and why the comments have been made instead of adding your 2 cents worth. Again I own an ADM mount and several Larue mounts. Never had an issue with the Larue mounts. My ADM mount works as well but its more of a pain to adjust. Its either super tight and hard to remove or loose. Poor design compared to Larue's system in my opinion based on actual use. My Larue's have held zero after years of being taken on and off the gun. LARUE ADM Use the mounts you prefer but to call Larue crappy simply shows ignorance. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 I do like the spring loaded levers on the ADM, and the tool-less adjustments are nice. The lower price is nice too. But both my ADM mounts came with tubes of lock tite, so not sure they are different in that regard. ADM mounts are not tooless unless you consider a flat head screw driver something other than a tool. Larue's use a wrench, ADM's use a screw driver. Both require tools. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanielW Posted July 20, 2011 Share Posted July 20, 2011 Actually they don't Pat....you just push the screw from the other side, the nut then pops out and turns easily and free with fingers on the ADM. There's a screwdriver slot....its strictly optional though. ADM, Bobro, Larue....all great mounts though, no need to pick spots off of any of them imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diversmith Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Actually they don't Pat....you just push the screw from the other side, the nut then pops out and turns easily and free with fingers on the ADM. There's a screwdriver slot....its strictly optional though. ADM, Bobro, Larue....all great mounts though, no need to pick spots off of any of them imo. This is how I adjust mine...push the other side in and turn the nut the desired amount. I can't believe that someone is saying Larue mounts are crap????????? This thread is making my head hurt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cas Posted July 22, 2011 Share Posted July 22, 2011 Thank you for turning this into such a funny thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrgwn Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 I have to orrect my post - weaver v3 magnification is NOT a true 1x - it seems so at a distance, but both eyes open @ 1yard i can notice the difference. Not much, but it is there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bagdrag Posted July 26, 2011 Share Posted July 26, 2011 I have to orrect my post - weaver v3 magnification is NOT a true 1x - it seems so at a distance, but both eyes open @ 1yard i can notice the difference. Not much, but it is there... I thought most '1x' variable scopes were like this, although to varying degrees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrgwn Posted July 27, 2011 Share Posted July 27, 2011 Dont know, its my first 1x scope, but apparently it is very difficult for scope makers to make true 1x magnification on variable magnification lenses... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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