When you pick up the timer, take it seriously

[OpenDot]

Check your PMs.

Much thanks my friend!!

[Sarge]

Those commands are what's being said at the steel shoots I do on thursday nights at local ranges in phx.... Not the Nationals for Area 2

Does NOT have to be the nationals or an area match to require proper range commands.

But I hear ya' on how bad range commands can be at less formal events like local steel. I was ROing one of those recently and said, "make ready". The shooter looked at me like I was the moron and said, "don't you think I need to draw my gun first?" Of course I told him he was correct and it was my mistake.

[OpenDot]

Those commands are what's being said at the steel shoots I do on thursday nights at local ranges in phx.... Not the Nationals for Area 2

Does NOT have to be the nationals or an area match to require proper range commands.

But I hear ya' on how bad range commands can be at less formal events like local steel. I was ROing one of those recently and said, "make ready". The shooter looked at me like I was the moron and said, "don't you think I need to draw my gun first?" Of course I told him he was correct and it was my mistake.

Oh I hear you loud and clear. We had 6 or 8 DEA agents shoot last thursday, even when I said what I typed before... the guys were all huh? Never been there, no noob class... nothing, paid money and started the stages. I think that's why the vets say what they do...I started repeating them to insure what steps the shooter was and can do. We average over 120 shooters..20-30 are noobs. D Limited always has 50 people in it hahahahaha

They really need to have some sort of noob training. I know alot of you guys think i'm some sort of moron for saying my range commands the way I do..but it's a local match, no noob class...that's why I grab the timer and say what I say. At those matches...i'm not changing a thing until a noob class is established.

USPSA Stuff.... not even touching that timer until I complete my RO class.

If I did it USPSA style at the steel match, 1/4 the squads wouldn't know what the hell to do when it was their time to shoot.

Not saying the range is a bad range, it's just more laid back and relaxed. My main goal there is to insure the muzzle is down range at all times, finger is out of the gaurd on reloads and the damn gun get's unloaded and holstered lol

Tomorrow I shoot my second qualifier, I will be staying far away from the timer until I complete my RO class.

[Jim Norman]

Drift Alert (Sort of)

If the range you are shooting at doesn't have at the very least a semi formal New Shooter Orientation, I would either start one or not shoot there. It is just a matter of time until Bad Things Happen.

This does not need to be a hours long class, just a 15-20 minute rules and procedures briefing, especially for steel, USPSA will take a bot longer as you need to cover movement. At the very least go over the range commands and drawing and re-holstering. Usually steel won't require a reload.

A simple live fire safety check, LAMR, AYR, Beep 2 shots on one target, two on a second, reload, repeat, ULSC, ICHDH now you see without pressure if the shooter can do this and he is no longer under all sorts of pressure on his first stage. Foolproof? NO, but it weeds our the truly incompetent.

[OpenDot]

Drift Alert (Sort of)

If the range you are shooting at doesn't have at the very least a semi formal New Shooter Orientation, I would either start one or not shoot there. It is just a matter of time until Bad Things Happen.

This does not need to be a hours long class, just a 15-20 minute rules and procedures briefing, especially for steel, USPSA will take a bot longer as you need to cover movement. At the very least go over the range commands and drawing and re-holstering. Usually steel won't require a reload.

A simple live fire safety check, LAMR, AYR, Beep 2 shots on one target, two on a second, reload, repeat, ULSC, ICHDH now you see without pressure if the shooter can do this and he is no longer under all sorts of pressure on his first stage. Foolproof? NO, but it weeds our the truly incompetent.

No they do not...

I agree 100%!

[lawboy]

I agree that ROs need to stay vigilant. BUT we shooters have a responsibility to help them do that. One way I try to help the ROs is by not doing ANYTHING until commanded to do so. Particularly at the end of my stage run. I do not unload and show clear before the RO gets up to me. I stand there with gun in hand and wait. If he/she does not say anything, waiting for me to go on auto pilot and unload the gun, I look at him/her and wait until they figure out that I am awaiting a command. This way we both keep our roles and responsibilities straight and stay on point.

[rupie]

If I was you, I would tell everyone in my squad on the first stage what the range commands are so they know what to expect from you. On our walk through every match in front of everyone i ask if there are any new shooters, assign them to my squad and then for everyone go over the range commands, even though most people know them as well as I do. But thats how you get the guys in your squad on the same page as you!

[sperman]

I shot a match a few months ago where the RO on the timer was more interested in playing "hacky-sack" with the ejected brass than paying attention to what the shooter was doing. This is a GM who is competitive on a national level, and should definitely know better.

[glefos]

I agree that ROs need to stay vigilant. BUT we shooters have a responsibility to help them do that. One way I try to help the ROs is by not doing ANYTHING until commanded to do so. Particularly at the end of my stage run. I do not unload and show clear before the RO gets up to me. I stand there with gun in hand and wait. If he/she does not say anything, waiting for me to go on auto pilot and unload the gun, I look at him/her and wait until they figure out that I am awaiting a command. This way we both keep our roles and responsibilities straight and stay on point.

What you just mentioned... "before the RO gets up to me" .... is an issue. The RO should ALWAYS be with the shooter. If you are not with the shooter, you cannot control the shooter.

Agreed, shooters need to wait for range commands even at the end of a COF.

[Nik Habicht]

I agree that ROs need to stay vigilant. BUT we shooters have a responsibility to help them do that. One way I try to help the ROs is by not doing ANYTHING until commanded to do so. Particularly at the end of my stage run. I do not unload and show clear before the RO gets up to me. I stand there with gun in hand and wait. If he/she does not say anything, waiting for me to go on auto pilot and unload the gun, I look at him/her and wait until they figure out that I am awaiting a command. This way we both keep our roles and responsibilities straight and stay on point.

What you just mentioned... "before the RO gets up to me" .... is an issue. The RO should ALWAYS be with the shooter. If you are not with the shooter, you cannot control the shooter.

Agreed, shooters need to wait for range commands even at the end of a COF.

Why? Do you really think that ROs should physically latch onto a guy who is holding a gun? Control is achieved by range commands. There are also plenty of stages where following right on the shooter's heels is unwise -- for reasons ranging from interference, to being swept, to not being able to see what an RO needs to be able to see....

[Flexmoney]

I am with Nik on this. It is easy (and more likely) for the RO to get in the way when they are (too) close to the shooter.

[herky]

I am with Nik on this. It is easy (and more likely) for the RO to get in the way when they are (too) close to the shooter.

But close enough to be sure to pick up the last shot if it is around a wall, etc.

[twodownzero]

I catch myself too close to a lot of shooters sometimes, because I am so focused on the gun that I end up too close. Two weeks ago I got whacked in the forehead by a piece of .45 brass and it got me to step back.

Usually I'll give faster and more experienced shooters a lot more room, because they move quicker and they tend to be more safe so I don't have to worry about them as much (I still watch, just from 10' back instead of a step behind them). With newer shooters I tend to stay pretty close to them, mostly so I can coach them if necessary or stop them if they get unsafe.

[Nik Habicht]

I am with Nik on this. It is easy (and more likely) for the RO to get in the way when they are (too) close to the shooter.

But close enough to be sure to pick up the last shot if it is around a wall, etc.

That's best addressed by having the timer display up, in the peripheral vision -- it's easy to see the display flip, or not, even if you don't apply so much focus that you can call the time in the instant the last shot is fired....

[OpenDot]

I'm happy to say I have the proper range commands burned into my brain and have deleted everything else.

Alot of guys are saying what I used too still to the new guys so they know what steps to do in the process. I just stick with the proper stuff.

My RO class is july 9th/10...

[glefos]

Why? Do you really think that ROs should physically latch onto a guy who is holding a gun? Control is achieved by range commands. There are also plenty of stages where following right on the shooter's heels is unwise -- for reasons ranging from interference, to being swept, to not being able to see what an RO needs to be able to see....

Use some common sense. Look at the subject of the thread. You know there are ROs that are come trotting along 3-5 seconds after the shooter is done with the COF. Take what you do seriously if you are going to run the timer.

I'm sure RO class covered this just like mine did.

[sfchorn]

There are LOTS of ways to help less exprienced ROs.

If we see someone struggling a bit, one of us will step up and say "Hey, need a break? I'll take over for a while." Once we get the new RO in the shade, we will give some encouragement on the things he/she did right. We'll then say something like "I remember when I was just starting out. Here are some of the mistakes I made..."

We will then the focus the attention the relief RO, and point out things like "See how the RO is positioning himself? That gives him options in case the competitor does does something unexpected." Remember to keep things positive and provide plenty of encouragement.

Experience as a competitor is valuable to an RO. Anticipating how different people might shoot a stage helps let me know what to watch out for. I also look at which division the competitor is in. A Production/Limited 10 or Single Stack competitor will break the stage down differently than a Limited or Open competitor.

As a competitor, it bothers me a bit whe an RO deviates from the range commands. It makes me wonder "If he doesn't even know the range commands, what ELSE doesn't he know?" It snaps me out of my mental program because now I not only have to concentrate on what I'm doing, I have to wonder what the RO may do.