Barrel breakin & lapping

[STIGUY]

Recently acquired Rem. SPS Varmint Stainless in

.308. Read a few things about barrel break in and such. I know this is just a favtory barrel, but I am trying to obtain the best and consistent long range accuracy from the factory tube.

Read several custom rifle manuactures claims about howany times their barrels have been hang lapped and can only assume it is worth it.

The question is: there is a product that claims to kind of "fire lap" the barrel offered by Super Shooting Systems and David Tunb called DTAC Final Finsh Laded Ao. I think it is a abraasive impregnated projective that when shot will "smooth out the irregulaties and tool marks in the barrel.

Has anyone used this product and is it worth it? Amy other suggestions as to this?

[RiggerJJ]

I've used Final Finish on several barrels, and it works great. I also have a new SPS that will be getting the Final Finish treatment as soon as I have time to spend a couple hours at the range shooting and cleaning...Thats the only bummer about it, shoot 10 , clean, repeat 5x, but when you are finished you can shoot it like you stole it...sight it in, do your load development, etc.

jj

[RufDog]

http://www.6mmbr.com/gailmcmbreakin.html

How to Break-in a Barrel

-- A Dissenting Point of View

Gale McMillan, of McMillan Stocks fame, was one of the finest barrel-makers and benchrest shooters of all time. Here he argues that elaborate barrel break-in procedures do more harm than good.

Comments collected from Gale's Gun Forum postings.

As a barrel maker I have looked in thousands of new and used barrels with a bore scope and I will tell you that if every one followed the prescribed [one shot, one clean] break-in method, a very large number would do more harm than good. The reason you hear of the gain in accuracy is because if you chamber a barrel with a reamer that has a dull throater instead of cutting clean sharp rifling it smears a burr up on the down wind side of the rifling. It takes from one to two hundred rounds to burn this burr out and the rifle to settle down and shoot its best. Any one who chambers rifle barrels has tolerances on how dull to let the reamer get and factories let them go longer than any competent smith would.

Another tidbit to consider--take a 300 Win Mag that has a life expectancy of 1000 rounds. Use 10% of it up with your break-in procedure. For every 10 barrels the barrel-maker makes he has to make one more just to take care of the break-in. No wonder barrel-makers like to see this. Now when you flame me on this please [explain] what you think is happening to the inside of your barrel during the break in that is helping you.

Consider this: every round shot in breaking-in a barrel is one round off the life of said rifle barrel. No one has ever told me the physical reason of what happens during break-in firing. In other words what, to the number of pounds of powder shot at any given pressure, is the life of the barrel. No one has ever explained what is being accomplished by shooting and cleaning in any prescribed method. Start your barrel off with 5 rounds and clean it thoroughly and do it again. Nev Maden, a friend down under that my brother taught to make barrels was the one who came up with the [one shot one clean] break-in method. He may think he has come upon something, or he has come up with another way to sell barrels. I feel that the first shot out of a barrel is its best and every one after that deteriorates [the bore] until the barrel is gone. If some one can explain what physically takes place during break-in to modify the barrel then I may change my mind. As the physical properties of a barrel don't change because of the break-in procedures it means it's all hog wash. I am open to any suggestions that can be documented otherwise if it is just someone's opinion--forget it.

It all got started when a barrel maker that I know started putting break-in instructions in the box with each barrel he shipped a few years ago. I asked him how he figured it would help and his reply was if they shoot 100 rounds breaking in this barrel that's total life is 3000 rounds and I make 1000 barrels a year just figure how many more barrels I will get to make. He had a point; it definately will shorten the barrel life. I have been a barrel maker a fair amount of time and my barrels have set and reset benchrest world records so many times I quit keeping track (at one time they held 7 at one time) along with High Power, Silhouette, Smallbore national and world records and my instructions were to clean as often as possible preferably every 10 rounds. I inspect every barrel taken off and every new barrel before it is shipped with a bore scope and I will tell you all that I see far more barrels ruined by cleaning rods than I see worn out from normal wear and tear. I am even reading about people recommending breaking-in pistols. As if it will help their shooting ability or the guns'.

More from Gale McMillan: http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/Barrel_BreakIn.asp

[abn-rgr]

I agree. Barrel break in is a waste of time and a good way to wear your barrel out quicker......

[Big Bore]

Just take it out and shoot it. Don't waste your time and money.

[STIGUY]

Alright....it is settled.....

[smokshwn]

Actually the above posters are correct concerning traditional break in on a high quality custom barrel. There is no need.

However, Final Finish is a whole different process. I have used the final finish on two remington factory tubes before and have experienced a measurable improvement. I gained about 25 fps and the barrels were 100% easier to clean.

I would shoot it first, see how it performs and how difficult it is to clean. Then make a decision. At the end of the day it is a factory barrel and you really have nothing to lose from using the Final Finish.

Edited April 6, 2011 by smokshwn

[stringcheese]

I have a Willie Hart 300 Mag, Remington 700 sporter that shoots dimes with a 9 power scope. I also have 6mm international benchrest guns from willie that can shoot one hole groups, and a 3/8" Benchrest league average.

My break in is:

Get the new barrel, scrub the krap out of it with sweets, then do an hour of lapping it with brownells compound. Take it to the range, 1 shot, clean with hoppes, swab dry x 10 times. After the first 10 rounds fired this way I do a string of 3, then clean with hoppes and swab dry. The groups of three become sighters too. Do 5 cycles of three shots with a cleaning in between. Now do three strings of 5 shots and you are done.

The lapping process polished the fresh barrel.

The strings of shots gadually heat treat the bore, it is kind of like breaking in a fresh pair of rotors on you car brakes. You need the cooling period between shots to properly heat treat the bore. Cleaning it provides the cooling time and removes any solids that might scratch a fresh bore.

This type of break in IS oldschool thinking, but benchrest guys ARE oldschool. Perhaps an action shooters site isn't the best place to ask advice for bolt action accuracy?

Edited April 6, 2011 by stringcheese

[Vlad]

I don't think action shooters are EXCLUSIVELY action shooters. Lots of people here like tinny groups out of bolt guns. Just shoot the gun.

[stringcheese]

I don't think action shooters are EXCLUSIVELY action shooters. Lots of people here like tinny groups out of bolt guns. Just shoot the gun.

I saw this coming. I appologize.

[Jaxshooter]

I agree just shoot it. I have spoken with several top rifle smiths about barel break in and cleaning. They look at you with a smile on thier faces and tell you they love the people that go through the breakin processs and the constant cleaning of barrels. That way they get to replace the barrel sooner.

[Religious Shooter]

My new JP upper came with some of this to use for the break-in.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=1160/l=y/Product/J_B_reg__NON_EMBEDDING_BORE_CLEANING_COMPOUND

Personally I'd break-in a factory Remington barrel.

[Biloxi23]

I've been shooting precision rifles a lot longer than I have been shooting action pistols, and used to be a proponent of teh old school brak in methods. I also used to be fanatic about cleaning the crap out of the bore after even a few shots (must be teh Marine boot camp training). A friend intriduced me to Gale McMillans thoghts on the subject, along with the idea that I was probably wearing my bore more cleaning it than I ever did shooting it. This made sense to me, so for the last three years or so I have "shot in' four new rifles without the old school break in. I also found out that all of teh rifles shoot really well with dirty barrels for a lot longer than I would have ever imagined. My thoughts on teh process may not be the same if I were shooting one of the very high pressure, flame throwing benchrest calibers, and measuring the groups to four decimal points to the right of the decimel. But I'm shooting a .308 and measuring the groups to the nearest minute of bad guy.

[Alaskapopo]

I was reading something on another forum the other day talking about not cleaning at all until you notice a decrease in accuracy. Some of the guys were talking about shooting thousdands of rounds before cleaning their bore. I have never tried that. What say you guys?

Pat

[Wap wap]

if you take an across the board survey, you'll get the typical Gaussian distribution of pros and cons leading with at least two conclusions, either no one way is superior to another, or that any one way works as well as the others. Personally I don't bother other than making a pass with a rag initially to get foreign material for the first shooting. Have an Fn spr a5 300 wsm with 2400 rds, barrel wiped out every 1000 rds, with small change in precision, and no statistical change in practical accuracy no break in no harsh cleaning. Same for an AR10T with 3k+ rds. Both use moly coated bullets to extend wiping intervals. Same method used for other rifles no moly, same results. If you do decide to break in and over clean would advise only pulling the rod through the bore and no pushy, rod guide or no rod guide.

[Wap wap]

best video on barrel break in out there.

[AlamoShooter]

you guys scare me, I think I should just stay on the porch.

[Shadowrider]

Don't worry, just shoot that thang.

[whistlepig]

The issue of accuracy is really not as much of a driving factor IMHO. The bigger issue is fouling.

I Don't want to stir the pot on pro vs con any more than has already been done. I do give credence to the thoughts of "break in" causes excessive wear, but consider that a very smooth bore is MUCH easier to clean and copper fouls less. If you notice significant copper fouling, consider doing it. The bore will shoot better longer and clean much easier. That is what will make it worth it. I have some factory barrels that never needed it and some that did. A rough bore will foul faster.

[Wap wap]

why would fouling ever become an issue if it, at least in some minds, didn't affect accuracy? Accuracy is , or lack of it, or not enough of it, etc. is the cause of most overcleaning problems, of which barrel breakin mantras are just the start of the cycle. Just the fact that there are so many different methods, combined with the folks that don't do it at all indicate, at least, there is no correct way or even if its necessary.

[stringcheese]

Ok.

If doing a one shot, wet patch, dry patch, one shot, wet patch, dry patch string as a break in COULD make your barrel last longer and shoot better, why not just do it? There is nothing to be lost by it. You have to sight in a new rifle anyway.

Don't you always clean your gun before storing it?

Does a clean bbl shoot the same as a dirty one?

Do you take your shot while hunting on a clean bbl fresh out of storage? (for hunting rifles)

If a bore gets a heat treat glaze after shooting the first few rounds and becomes harder, wouldn't it be easier to scratch, wear, or otherwise damage a fresh bore?

If this is true then why not run a wet patch thru it and get the grit out for the first few shots while the bore is soft and easier to damage?

You are going to shoot your rifle anyway, why not have a short honeymoon with your new rifle and get to know her, take care of her, and give her a good break in? Shoot, even the USMC makes you give your rifle a name(FMJ).

MP

[Wap wap]

if moly coated bullets could give longer cleaning intervals, if putting a copper heat sink along the entire length gave longer accuracy life, coulda, woulda, shoulda.

[ShooterSteve]

One other thing to think about is, today's manufacturing processes are a lot better than they were long years ago when a lot of this break in process was developed. When I talked to JP about breaking in my supermatch, they were pretty casual about it. I think bores are becoming smoother right out of the box, and take less breaking in. I just figured I'd throw this in the mix to muddy the water even more...

[AlamoShooter]

I can't help but think of the similarities in this thread to some of the concepts on Dog training.

some insist The Only way is by forced training

some say spend the time to get the dog to -Want to- retrieve.

many say you cant have a dog that retrieves and is still a companion.

I have to admit that I am one of the guys that will _Ask my barrel_ to shoot good for me with a cautious shoot and clean with for the first 20 rounds. I have to sight in the scope any way and I work on getting the scope close as I do my -Break in -

I think possibly the entire thing is 'Feel' . Break in feels rite to me

My brain would not let me take what I think may be a short cut with a new barrel. My new gun has been very good to me

my first Ar with a Varmint barrel had the Tubbs Final Finish in it, and it does seem like the patch and brush slide easy when i do my cleanings after 500-1000 rounds shot, so I don't clean the barrel after each use. I may just pull a clean snake through it

one of the main things that is in the Final Finish write up is that it will help with throat erosion to extend the life on an older barrel. the only time I would think it was for a new barrel was when the accuracy is below standard.

But most of the guys posting here have much more experience than me.

I ma just a Pup to center fire rifle

Edited May 10, 2011 by AlamoShooter

[Powder Finger]

best video on barrel break in out there.

That is the most conclusive info test I've seen. It sets all other methods back at least 100 years.

The other positive is it takes care of the bad crown on the barrel at the same time, no extra steps necessary.