Nolan Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 [Range Nazi Voice]"Fine Erik, No pre-course banter for you!" [/Range Nazi Voice] OH Man are you kidding? I can't wait until the next time I RO Erik! I need every competitive advantage I can steal, er get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
short_round Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 I can't wait until the next time I RO Erik! I need every competitive advantage I can steal, er get. You'd better take what you can get. Erik finished first overall at the last match and it wasn't because people didn't show up. He won the thing in a pretty tough field. Looks like [poltergeist voice] he's ba-ack [/poltergiest voice] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted March 30, 2004 Share Posted March 30, 2004 Looks like [poltergeist voice] he's ba-ack [/poltergiest voice] Just wait - he'll lose it again, as soon as he gets a dang job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
short_round Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 Just wait - he'll lose it again, as soon as he gets a dang job I don't know ... Erik just won the April match of the open Series (1st open and 1st overall - is that redundant?). That's two in a row. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharyn Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 Non-standard range commands are a pet peeve of mine. I have grown to accept the fact that some folks (ROs) are going to engage in conversation and they may use non-standard commands. That type of thing used to bother me a lot, but now I just go with the flow. I refuse to let something as trivial as, "Do you understand the course of fire..." to screw with my "set". I can't control the RO, but I can control how I react to the RO. BTW, some of you guys are pretty anal. I totally agree. For a newbie, the extra chatter is distracting, confusing and annoying. I appreciate consistence because I have enough to think about when I'm on the line. When a RO asks me, "Do you understand the course of fire?" I reply with, "I better!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 Everyone has their pet peeves. The last thing you want to do is get upset and think about the dumba$$ ROing you. You need to think about what you need to do. Go with the flow and after you have shot, tell him, the next time you'd appreciate the standard commands and NOTHING else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 I squadded with somebody from out of town who I haven't shot with before and I swear he recited the entire Gettysburg address before he said, "Load and Make Ready." It does tend to get my panties in a bind while I'm there ready to get into my LAMR ritual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
texasag93 Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 babbling twit and dumba$$? You guys ever RO? It is a thankless job. I will ask the shooter if they understand the course of fire and at larger matches first thing I will ask is your name. I don't know you? God's gift to shooting(GM, M) or not I probably dont know you!? Does the RO staff even have the right score sheet, if we are scoring Bubba and Gump is shooting that is gonna cause problems and delays later. After the formal introductions are over then you will get the standard USPSA range commands(in English). I promise not to take up much of you guy's prep time. Give RO's a break, without them you wouldn't have an organized, smooth running match ever. If you are an RO, help the others to become better. Name calling will get you nowhere. I know this is someone elses rant but I had to put my .02 of critisism in on this sore subject. Rant mode off, FOR NOW. TXAG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
short_round Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 Yes, we are USPSA certifed RO's. Yes, we are Range Officers for our club which means we run practice days (which also includes taking out the trash), stay late after practice to setup the stages for the match the next day (sometimes alone), and also end up doing most of the RO'ing during the match while the other people in the squad conveniently "forget" to tape, reset steel, and brass (not all the time, but it happens). Yes, we do our best to make new shooters comfortable. We know they are the future of the sport. You bet we know how thankless it is! We have needs too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted April 6, 2004 Share Posted April 6, 2004 Ag93 There are dumba$$ RO's just like there are dumba$$ shooters, resign yourself to that fact. Short Round This is his HATE rant on the What I Hate topic, start your own Hate rant on how noone takes notice of your needs as an RO... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yeahyeah Posted April 7, 2004 Share Posted April 7, 2004 Sounds like you could use more RO's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattBurkett Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 It surprises me that everyone is so shaken up by non-standard range commands. I do understand getting an official LAMR and won't touch my gun until I get one. Other than that the only thing I am concerned about is that the standby command happens before the beep. That is my prep word and I won't react to a beep or anything else unless I hear standby. Maybe people are saying the wrong commands because: A) they don't know the right ones they don't care C) they are trying to mess with you No matter what it is if you call it to their attention, you will probably be "scruitinized" more than, umm, normal. Know what I mean? Don't let others rent space in your head. Just shoot the damn gun - nothing else matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gun Geek Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 OK I have to recognize Matt's last comment there. It is memorialized in my signature line. Geek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GRD Posted April 8, 2004 Share Posted April 8, 2004 Don't let others rent space in your head. Nice one! We are starting an IDPA club in Maine and we have lots of very green SO's and very green shooters (there is no IDPA or IPSC up here), so we look at 'pre-course banter' as a tool we have available to assist new people and reduce their stress level. Our SO's are being taught to 'qualify your shooter' - try to recognize a newbie vs. a veteran and adjust how you treat them in an effort to help the shooter complete the course as safe and enjoyably as possible. New people get more assistance. Vets are basically left alone, they know what's expected of them, have their heads in the game and we try not to get in their way. We use the standard commands, for everyone, no exceptions. To do anything else upsets the vets and confuses the newbies. There just might be more 'banter' for a new shooter and less (or none) for a vet. It's a tough call, but the SO needs to be on top of taking care of the shooter. If that means getting out of their way, then that is what it means. If that means reminding a new shooter that if they aren't clear on what they are about to do, this is a chance to ask questions, then we'll do that. - Gabe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KentG Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Count me among the guilty. If I get pressed into RO duty I do usually ask the shooter if they have any q's or if they understand the course of fire. My bad, I didnt realize it was such a big deal and will try to avoid it in the future unless I KNOW I have a new shooter in front of me. Then I will or wont depending on if he/she has that lost look. Nothing like cracking down on a first time shooter to keep them from coming back eh? Ive been known to use a foot wedge in golf too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hardball1911 Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 About half the time I hear "if you're ready, give me a nod". Ok, as an offender on this one, I have to tell you that not all of us can afford the high dollar electronic ear muffs. Matter of fact, I usually have two sets of ear protection on, as I want to hear in my elder years. In order for me to "hear" the shooter declare ready, he has to give me a visual sign of some sort. While I use the proper commands otherwise, it is difficult for me to hear "Shooter ready." or any other verbal from the shooter most of the time. While we all enjoy the sport, it seems that there are those who can take your argument to extreme. "Do you understand the course of fire?" is meant to make the shooter have no out should he/she shoot the course of fire improperly. Kind of a disclaimer, "Well you said you understood it before you started." This I am neither with or against. My angst comes from the Range Lawyer guy who, while still ten shooters down in the rotation, has to stand just behind the scorekeeper and "demand" procedural penalties on shooters when they are half way through the course of fire. "He did this! He did that!" then when they shoot, they do the same thing and argue that they "couldn't have possibly done that." "Well, you did, and I am giving you the procedural for it, even though it was minor, you too did it." Long of the short of it is this: If it weren't for the other shooters RO'ing us while we shoot the monthly, state, area, or nationals, you wouldn't have a competition to go to. I don't really concern myself as much with the RO who says, "Gas it up." or anything of the like. I am too busy running the stage in my head to worry about the minor stuff. Hang in there and just shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mactiger Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 Pre-command "banter" is just that--not part of the range commands. I see it as mostly a way to 1) say hello to the shooter, and 2) make sure they understand the course, or give them an opportunity to ask questions. It shouldn't be prolonged, but there really is nothing wrong with it. In the interest of time, many RO's that I know will only ask whether the competitor understands the course, or if they have any questions. This is probably the second most frequent question I get in level one classes, and my answer is always: "nothing wrong with it, just keep it short and to the point." As for the shooter indicating ready, well, he doesn't have to. After "Are you ready", if the competitor is in the start position, and doesn't move, then the assumption is that he's ready to go, so proceed with the range commands. Demanding that the competitor indicate that he's ready, or deviating from the range commands are far worse "sins" in my book than asking if the competitor has any questions about the course. Troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted April 12, 2004 Share Posted April 12, 2004 I recently had this discussion with a local shooter who commented that he had heard that RO's were no longer to ask 'do you understand the COF?' and that USPSA simply has too many rules, and that question did not 'hurt anything'. I responded that this is a case where we are 'd*mned if we do, and d*mned if we don't' because some shooters expect 'do you understand the COF' while others expect us to stick to the actual range commands. As for it not 'hurting anything' my comment was that was not always true. On my stage at the 2002 Race Gun Nats in Bend, we had not one, but two instances of shooters pulling their gun before LAMR. Same RO in both cases, and both shooters complaimed that the first thing they expected out of the RO's mouth was LAMR (which is not what he gave). Anyway, from this experience forward, this is how I handle things.... 1) At club matches I try to adopt what the local club members seem to be used to. If it is 'do you understand the COF' then that is how I usually start. 2) At major matches, I stick to the book period. However, what I often will do, is greet the shooter as he walks up to the start position. Since he/she is not yet at the start position, and I am standing in front of him, he should know that I am not giving LAMR, and not make the mistake of pulling their gun. If someone comes up to the start position and asks me a question, or asks me how I am doing, I will answer them, as they also will not mistake my reponse for LAMR. Sorry if this is a drift, but it is tough to know what every shooter expects when they come to the line. For that reason, I try to stick to the actual range commands. My .02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kdj Posted April 13, 2004 Author Share Posted April 13, 2004 What does one do if a shooter is (improperly ) asked "Do you understand the course of fire" and he simply says "No" and then assumes the start position? It's not the RO's job to ensure that he does, right? I understand that in most low pressure situations, a RO may help out with a reminder of, say, the hand position. But, in the hypothetical ideal, what should the RO do after hearing that "no". I'd assume say "Are you ready" and move on. I know this is a something of an exageration but since we drifted this way, I am curious Kevin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Man After years of false starts and quizzical looks. I force myself to nod after the "Are you ready" If I don't I get very strange reactions about 50% of the time. Sorry Troy M they know not what they do ) EXCEPT with the "GM" RO's but even at the Nationals they are not all GM's. Yes I do have a list of who I would consider a GM RO. Hey I get a kick out of watching anybody that is good at what they do. The commands do not affect my performance, but I do need to hear "Are you ready ,Standby" Anything else is unfair in my book. I know the rest of the commands and I do say them correctly when I RO, most of the time, but am not affected if my RO doesn't say them correctly. That said, learn the range commands. What is it 25 or so words? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeeper Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 If a shooter doesnt understand the course of fire then that is their tough shi$. They are the responsible party. They can ask questions. I wear double plugs when I shoot so I shouldnt need to try and figure out what is being said. I want to hear "load....." and that is it. My opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 What does one do if a shooter is (improperly ) asked "Do you understand the course of fire" and he simply says "No" and then assumes the start position? It's not the RO's job to ensure that he does, right? I understand that in most low pressure situations, a RO may help out with a reminder of, say, the hand position. But, in the hypothetical ideal, what should the RO do after hearing that "no". I'd assume say "Are you ready" and move on. I know this is a something of an exageration but since we drifted this way, I am curious Kevin Okay, I'll bite. The RO at this point should say "Load and Make Ready" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted April 13, 2004 Share Posted April 13, 2004 Or the counterpoint --- please step to the back of the line and re-read the course description. Next shooter, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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