SA 1911 Loaded Target 9mm

[The_Vigilante]

I found out yesterday the hard way that my 1911 9mm Loaded doesn't like RNFP or HP bullets. I was using the Precision 147g RNFP's and Zero 147g HP's. Both of them hit the feed ramp on the barrel and stopped. Was told by another shooter that I needed to use RN's to solve the problem. Has this been the experience of those of you who own or have owned this pistol? If I replace it with a non-ramped barrel is this problem going to go away? I have some MG 147g CMJ's but they also have a flat point which leads me to think they're not going to feed either. Does anyone make a 147g RN bullet? Thanks for your comments/suggestions. Note: I called SA and was advised to break the pistol in with about 300-rds of ball ammo before I tried any HP's or other ammo. Good advice? Thought about it some more and realized I left out a possibly important piece of information. When I first bought this model I did take it out to the range and ran some of the 147g Precisions thru it without any hiccups. The only thing that changed between that time and the IDPA match yesterday was the recoil spring. I replaced the OEM recoil spring with a 15-lb variable recoil spring from Wolff. Is it possible the 15-lb variable recoil spring didn't generate enough power to load the cartridge into the chamber? One other variable I'd better mention. When I shot it at the range for the 1st time I was using the OEM 7-rd SA magazines (no hiccups). When I took the pistol to the IDPA match yesterday I was using Tripp Cobra 10-rd 9mm mags.

Edited March 21, 2011 by The_Vigilante

[twodownzero]

9mm 1911s are pretty much married to round nose bullets.

I use 135 grain moly bullets in mine. I tried everything possible to get 147 TCs to be reliable, but they just didn't work.

My EMP will eat the 147s all day. It's too bad SA doesn't make a steel frame, 5" version of it.

[ck1]

JHP + 9mm 1911 = generally low reliability. It has to do with the shorter OAL of a 9mm cartridge as compared to the longer OAL .45 the guns were originally designed for more so than the nose pf the bullet, but because the ramps are really quite steep on the way into their chambers, I consider the ramp more like "insurance" or a "helping hand", a rounder bullet profile yields the best chance of having them run good, the flatter you go the more iffy it gets.

[xdnok]

My Kimber target II 9mm with a ramped barrel and 16lb Wolf recoil spring seems to like the regular Precision Delta 147's (not flat nosed)and Xtreme plated 147's the best and seems to tolerate MG CMJ 147's 90% of the time. I don't know that I would call them "round nose" pointed nose is a better description.

At first mine had failure to extract issues that I tried all kinds of mags to no avail although the Trip 10 rd mags ran the best and Wilson combat the worst. Desperation caused me to check the extractor tension and it was half of what my SA XD's were (it's all I had to compare to) a simple tweek to increase tension made all the difference.

Edited March 22, 2011 by xdnok

[The_Vigilante]

I have ordered some of the Precision Delta 147g's but they are out right now and don't know how long it will take to get them. I do have some of the MG147g CMJ's and am going to take them to the range tomorrow to see if they behave. I am using a 14-lb variable recoil spring right now-would I be better off using the stock 16-lb spring? I am reloading light--3.3/4g of VV N320.

Edited March 22, 2011 by The_Vigilante

[stoked4AA]

My Kimber Target II 9mm used to have issues with any thing other than 115 and 124 fmj. I could not even use round lead bullets with similar profiles. Had a gunsmith tune an extractor and re-cut the feed ramp. Cost about 100.00 now it will eat round, flat, hollow, and cone bullets of every weight. A modern 1911 should feed and shoot any properly sized bullet. My understanding is that most 9mm major guys shoot HP and flat nose bullets. Why shouldn't yours?? Have a gunsmith that works on race guns check it out, should be an easy fix.

[stoked4AA]

Plenty of 9mm 1911 guns run 8 or 9 lb recoil springs without an issue. If you cant feed with a lighter spring you may be using force to overcome poor geometry.

[oak hill]

make sure your mags feedlips are set properly, if not bullets will hit the feedramp too low causing nose dives. Most often happens with the top round off the mag.

9mm can be a little touchy in 1911's, but once you get it figured out they are sweet to shoot!

[Mr Freeze]

make sure your mags feedlips are set properly, if not bullets will hit the feedramp too low causing nose dives. Most often happens with the top round off the mag.

9mm can be a little touchy in 1911's, but once you get it figured out they are sweet to shoot!

How do you know what "set properly" is?

[Carmoney]

Vigilante, I have the same gun, and have shot it quite a bit with little stubby 95-gr. Montana Gold bullets, which are short and blunt. It has never failed to feed with Wilson 10-rd. 9mm mags. Before you change anything, I would strongly recommend you try Wilson mags in your gun. I'll bet that solves your problem entirely.

[ck1]

A 15lb spring, whether variable or conventional, in a 9mm 1911 is way too strong, a 12lb spring is the heaviest you would ever have to or want to run. A 9 or 10lb spring seem to generally be the ticket with 125-135pf loads. I'd try a box of factory FMJ and see how it does... If your gun won't reliably feed a cartridge and lock-up into battery with a 10lb spring and it takes a stronger one to have it do so, then it's probably a good bet your extractor has too much tension. Make sure your mag's feed lips are near .350" or so, feed lips that are too wide will allow the follower and rounds to nose down.

Wilson ETM's and Tripp Cobra mags do hold the fresh rounds up higher in the gun so they can indeed help, but they won't overcome an over-tensioned extractor so I'd look at that first.

[The_Vigilante]

I loaded up some MG 147g CMJ's and headed back to the range this AM along with the Precision 147g's, Fiocchi 158g RN, and Zero 147g HP's. The only change to the pistol I made was to switch to a 12-lb Wolff Variable Recoil spring. Miracle of miracles: every single round I fired thru the pistol was flawless-no jams, no problems whatsoever. This was using the OEM 7-rd SA mag and the Tripp 10-rd 9mm mag. Is it possible that it was the recoil spring (14-lb Variable) causing all of my problems?

[USCSBarney]

I would say that is the main point of suspection. I have owned a Springfield, Kimber and now a custom 1911 9mm and the HEAVIEST recoil spring I have run is 12# with most reloads getting a 10# spring. 147gr has always been a "fiddle factor" point with them from my experiance. Factory generally always ran but reloads were hit and miss. That is a lot of mass to be a low PF load and make it down the barrel and work the slide. 124gr always seems to work better and gives you more "fiddle" room with reloads. 147's can be real powder puffs to shoot through them but 124's always seemed to be easier to taylor loads for. My 2 cents.

[ck1]

I loaded up some MG 147g CMJ's and headed back to the range this AM along with the Precision 147g's, Fiocchi 158g RN, and Zero 147g HP's. The only change to the pistol I made was to switch to a 12-lb Wolff Variable Recoil spring. Miracle of miracles: every single round I fired thru the pistol was flawless-no jams, no problems whatsoever. This was using the OEM 7-rd SA mag and the Tripp 10-rd 9mm mag. Is it possible that it was the recoil spring (14-lb Variable) causing all of my problems?

Yeah, it's totally possible, while looking to a lighter spring is most often used to to fix extraction issues since most guns tend to extract better with a lighter recoil spring, overall it gets the slide speed up, so that can help with feeding too. Could have been that the too-strong spring had your gun using up all it's recoil-energy kicking out the spent brass and/or was possibly short-stroking, not having enough juice to load a fresh round on the way back into battery.

Edited March 22, 2011 by ck1

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

Vigilante, I have the same gun, and have shot it quite a bit with little stubby 95-gr. Montana Gold bullets, which are short and blunt. It has never failed to feed with Wilson 10-rd. 9mm mags. Before you change anything, I would strongly recommend you try Wilson mags in your gun. I'll bet that solves your problem entirely.

I have 10 round Wilson and Tripp mags for my Springfield 9MM. I also have 2 9 round Springfield mags. I can use round nose with the Wilson and Tripp but NOT hollow point. I can use just about anything including Hollow Point with the stock mags.

I am currently using 160gr RN from Bayou Bullets sized .356 and really liking them. Edit to add I am running a 10# spring

Edited March 22, 2011 by Round_Gun_Shooter

[Carmoney]

RGS, is your Springfield a Loaded Target model with ramped barrel? Or an older Springfield 9mm?

[EkuJustice]

My 9mm runs a 10 pouund. If I try a heavier spring i get all kinds of problems

[xdnok]

My Kimber target II 9mm with a ramped barrel and 16lb Wolf recoil spring seems to like the regular Precision Delta 147's (not flat nosed)and Xtreme plated 147's the best and seems to tolerate MG CMJ 147's 90% of the time. I don't know that I would call them "round nose" pointed nose is a better description.

At first mine had failure to extract issues that I tried all kinds of mags to no avail although the Trip 10 rd mags ran the best and Wilson combat the worst. Desperation caused me to check the extractor tension and it was half of what my SA XD's were (it's all I had to compare to) a simple tweek to increase tension made all the difference.

Sorry, I meant to say I use a 12lb spring in the Kimber as I use a 16lb spring in my XD9 Tac

I don't know who picks 9mm recoil springs but most I've seen are way over sprung from the factory

Seriously though, tuning of the extractor made my poor running gun into a dream.

[Round_Gun_Shooter]

RGS, is your Springfield a Loaded Target model with ramped barrel? Or an older Springfield 9mm?

Loaded ramped about a year old

Before the Bayou bullets I was using up my 38spl 158gr Berry's round nose. Heavy bullets are saving my hands

Edited March 23, 2011 by Round_Gun_Shooter

[G-ManBart]

Yeah, it's totally possible, while looking to a lighter spring is most often used to to fix extraction issues since most guns tend to extract better with a lighter recoil spring, overall it gets the slide speed up, so that can help with feeding too. Could have been that the too-strong spring had your gun using up all it's recoil-energy kicking out the spent brass and/or was possibly short-stroking, not having enough juice to load a fresh round on the way back into battery.

It doesn't work that way. A lighter spring only increases the slide speed during the slide opening phase. Once the slide stops it's rearward travel, the recoil spring is the only thing pushing it forward, so a lighter spring will push forward less and the slide speed will be lower.

[Bob DuBois]

These little 9mm 1911's are a blast, mine is a Trojan. They take a little more tuning than other calibers. I would suggest you purchase a 9,10,12lb selection of recoil springs and a 15,17 main spring. I settled on a 9lb recoil and a 15lb mainspring. I don't know of anyone here running heavier than a 12lb recoil spring. The 1911 store gives you a break if you purchase three or more.

OAL on ammo can be an issue also and my gun seems to run best set at 1.130 to 1,140.

Might check the extractor tension, might be to tight.

It hard to over oil these guns either and a drop on the feed ramp and slide release might help it start running, run it wet.

I shoot a lot of 147's and mine likes the lead flat points along with PD jacketed and Frontier plated.

I had issues with the Wilson mags and because of light recoil springs removed two coils from the magazine spring as the magazine spring was slowing the slide.

Purchased my first metal form magazine this week and it ran Great out of the package last night.

Do a little tuning and a 9mm 1911 will move up to the top in your Keeper Collection.

[twodownzero]

Yeah, it's totally possible, while looking to a lighter spring is most often used to to fix extraction issues since most guns tend to extract better with a lighter recoil spring, overall it gets the slide speed up, so that can help with feeding too. Could have been that the too-strong spring had your gun using up all it's recoil-energy kicking out the spent brass and/or was possibly short-stroking, not having enough juice to load a fresh round on the way back into battery.

It doesn't work that way. A lighter spring only increases the slide speed during the slide opening phase. Once the slide stops it's rearward travel, the recoil spring is the only thing pushing it forward, so a lighter spring will push forward less and the slide speed will be lower.

And even then, the mainspring has more effect than the recoil spring anyway.

[whatsupglock]

9mm 1911's are a tricky little beast. They take a little work to get running, but once they are running they are a TON of fun.

I have an STI Trojan that was very finicky at first. Now it will feed anything I put in it, AS LONG AS THE BULLETS ARE NOT TOO LONG!!! Someone mentioned running 1.30" to 1.40" This is really good advice. I was running 1.160" and it was okay, but I was having some problems with the rounds being too long in the magazine. Which brings me to my next point.

Magazines are a BIG part of the puzzle. You've got to figure out what mags work best. I have found that in 9mm 1911 the metalform mags with the helper ramp seem to work the BEST with a slight modification. I'll get back to that later. If you can live with the 9 rounders, that is the best way to go. But like everyone, if you want the 10 rounders, you will need to make sure of a few things.

You absolutely have to make sure that the magazine and top round do not touch the EJECTOR in any way shape or form. 10 Round magazines are the culprit here. 9 Rounders don't have this problem as much. Load a magazine all the way up and insert the mag with the slide open. Push up on the magazine from the bottom of the grip in all angles and see if you can get the bullet or mag to hit the ejector. If it does you will need to have some material removed from the ejector.

Now, here's the mag mod. Put an empty mag in. Push up on the mag and look at the rear lip of the magazine. If it's a 10 round metalform, the magazine will extend up in front of the breach face. This WILL cause jams in the gun. You must use a file or dremel and very carefully, SLOWLY grind away at the magazine until it sits flush or just slightly below the frame. You will also have to file or grind the spacer in the magazine as well. Take the mags apart to do this. It will make a world of difference. Tripp Cobra mags will clear the breach face, but I had some feed issues that I never could resolve 100%. My gun is a competition gun and 99% confidence in the equipment is unacceptable. I would not hesitate to recomend Tripp Mags, but I now prefer the Metalform.

As noted extractor tension is very critical as well. A very tight extractor will cause all kinds of problems, but if the gun is feeding roundnose, but not hp's, I wouldn't be too concerned about the extractor.

Pollish the feed ramp as well. Just take any rough spots off using your FINGER and a CLOTH with some POLISHING COMPOUND. DO NOT USE A DREMEL. Go slow, finger pressure is enough to do the job quite well. Just be patient.

There has been some very good info about spring tension as well. Yes a 9-12 lbs recoil spring is more than enough. If you're using heavier recoil springs to feed the gun you're asking for big trouble. It's just a matter of time before you set a bullet back in the case and create an unsafe pressure situation.

The last recommendation I would make is to check and make sure the dissconector is not binding or grabbing the slide as it comes forward. To do this, as always, MAKE SURE THE GUN IS UNLOADED, rack the slide back and while holding the slide to the rear pull the trigger and hold it rearward. SLOWLY walk the slide forward to the disconnector and slide the gun closed. You may feel a little bit of a hitch when it hits the disconnector, but if the slide completely stops, you've got another problem. If the slide stops, lightly polish the top of the disconnector and lightly blend a radiused corner on the front of the breach face on the slide that contacts the disconnector. Using a fine stone to polish the corner of the breach face will do the trick. You don't need to cut a bunch of material off, just take the "hitch out of the git along" so to speak.

The above listed "things" will get your SA running in top shape. If you are not comfortable doing the things listed in this post, don't attempt it. Find a gunsmith who will do it for you.

The very last thing I will say is SA customer service is top notch. If you contact them about the problems you are having they may be able to fix it for you.

Happy shooting.

[Eager]

Git the hitch outta the git along

lol I might just have to use that someday.

I was evesdropping, since I'm deep into planning a 9mm "GirlGun", that will be hard not to hog to myself, as opposed to letting the girl shoot it.

Anyway, thanks whatsupglock for those great 9mm 1911 tips!

I'm really looking forward to starting to play with one.

Edited March 24, 2011 by Eager

[steel1212]

I didn't know they had 7 round 9mm mags. I thought the factory default was 9 rounds. Anyway when using a 9mm 1911 the 9 rounders will tend to run better because the bullets are less curved forward. With the taper of the 9mm brass they tend to stack with the nose wanting to point downwards. That 10th round can be a pain. Its the reason I run round nose bullets. I see no reason not to first off. Secondly it helps when the round hits the feed ramp to go into the chamber. You can also load longer because the faster the bullet gets to the ramp and starts going up the better. I run a 9# recoil spring in my gun and it runs. Anything heavier and it feels sluggish and slow.