Vortex Razor 1x4 vs SWFA SS 1x4 HD

[johnnywitt]

So, the SWFA offering looks pretty good. How does it stack up to the Razor? They say you get what you pay for, but the SWFA doesn't have any Middle Man markups. I like the Circle reticle on the SWFA a lot. They should have just made it a 1Xand4X to save weight and time to switch power.

Anyone have experience with both optics???

[johnnywitt]

So, the SWFA offering looks pretty good. How does it stack up to the Razor? They say you get what you pay for, but the SWFA doesn't have any Middle Man markups. I like the Circle reticle on the SWFA a lot. They should have just made it a 1Xand4X to save weight and time to switch power.

Anyone have experience with both optics???

Nobody???

[moose76]

I have been dying to see the same comparison, but with as new as the SWFA is, we might be waiting awhile longer. I would really like to see a giant compairison of all of the new 1-4x scopes, Burris TAC-30, Vortex, SWFA.

If anyone wants to send me one of each, I'll gladly write something up!

[jaredr]

didn't know that SWFA was coming out with their 1-4x but have to say I'm disappointed at the $800 price tag. Vortex's viper 1-4 is almost half the price and has gotten reviews as a great value from others on this site. i'd be hard pressed to spend another $350 over that ona product called "super sniper"

[Ben Diss]

Can't tell you anything about the Vortex, but I bought the 1-4 SS. I got the circle/caps model with SWFA's quick mount. I can tell you that it's a great piece. Everything I've read about others experiences have proven accurate, so I won't go into a full review. The one thing I did, that the other reviews didn't mention is I removed and reinstalled the scope to check that it held zero, and it did. I repeated the test 4 times (at 100Y) and each time I put it back on, it was exactly on target.

[johnnywitt]

Can't tell you anything about the Vortex, but I bought the 1-4 SS. I got the circle/caps model with SWFA's quick mount. I can tell you that it's a great piece. Everything I've read about others experiences have proven accurate, so I won't go into a full review. The one thing I did, that the other reviews didn't mention is I removed and reinstalled the scope to check that it held zero, and it did. I repeated the test 4 times (at 100Y) and each time I put it back on, it was exactly on target.

Thanks for that. I just can't get over how much I like the circle/mil rad reticle in theory as I have never even looked through one. I'm thinking just put a cat tail on it and spin from 1X to 4X. Why have any other power. Somebody needs to make a scope beside that crappy IOR Bulldog that just goes 1X and 4X. Why would yould you want to be on, say 1.5X, or 2.5X.

[Jadeslade]

Can't tell you anything about the Vortex, but I bought the 1-4 SS. I got the circle/caps model with SWFA's quick mount. I can tell you that it's a great piece. Everything I've read about others experiences have proven accurate, so I won't go into a full review. The one thing I did, that the other reviews didn't mention is I removed and reinstalled the scope to check that it held zero, and it did. I repeated the test 4 times (at 100Y) and each time I put it back on, it was exactly on target.

Thanks for that. I just can't get over how much I like the circle/mil rad reticle in theory as I have never even looked through one. I'm thinking just put a cat tail on it and spin from 1X to 4X. Why have any other power. Somebody needs to make a scope beside that crappy IOR Bulldog that just goes 1X and 4X. Why would yould you want to be on, say 1.5X, or 2.5X.

Hard targets through port. LIke head shots with no shoot covers. From 40-80 yards.

[smokshwn]

Can't tell you anything about the Vortex, but I bought the 1-4 SS. I got the circle/caps model with SWFA's quick mount. I can tell you that it's a great piece. Everything I've read about others experiences have proven accurate, so I won't go into a full review. The one thing I did, that the other reviews didn't mention is I removed and reinstalled the scope to check that it held zero, and it did. I repeated the test 4 times (at 100Y) and each time I put it back on, it was exactly on target.

Thanks for that. I just can't get over how much I like the circle/mil rad reticle in theory as I have never even looked through one. I'm thinking just put a cat tail on it and spin from 1X to 4X. Why have any other power. Somebody needs to make a scope beside that crappy IOR Bulldog that just goes 1X and 4X. Why would yould you want to be on, say 1.5X, or 2.5X.

FOV for one. There are often intermediate targets in say the 75-150 yd range that require some magnification but also there may be multiple targets where at a full 4-5x the field of view hinders you. So by engaging those targets at say 2 or 3x I now have some magnification to make a shot on a tight partial but twice the field of view if I were on 4x.

Also, you are making the mistake of assuming that flipping between only 1x or 4x is more simple than moving through the whole range of 1x-4x. My understanding is that the mechanism for the flip is actually more complicated and heavier than the traditional variable mechanism. This explains the price point and extra weight of the IOR Bulldog and the Elcan Specter scopes.

So the fact that not as many people want it, it is more complicated, heavier, and more expensive to produce explains why there are not more 1x or 4x only options.

Also to be pedantically obvious, if I am running a Switchview on a 1-4 vs. an Elcan Spectre DR, I am still moving a lever through an arc to choose the magnification level. Why give up the intermediate magnifications if the basic manipulation is the same?

Edited March 15, 2011 by smokshwn

[smokshwn]

To the OP here is a pretty decent review of the SS 1-4

SWFA Super Sniper 1-4

To the question on the price difference between the Vortex Viper PST and the SWFA SS, the Super Sniper is a First Focal Plane scope where as the PST is a 2nd Focal Plane scope. FFP is a much more complicated and expensive mechanism to produce than 2nd FP. To make a more direct comparison in this regard the Super Sniper should be compared against the Vortex Razor.

Edited March 15, 2011 by smokshwn

[jaredr]

To the question on the price difference between the Vortex Viper PST and the SWFA SS, the Super Sniper is a First Focal Plane scope where as the PST is a 2nd Focal Plane scope. FFP is a much more complicated and expensive mechanism to produce than 2nd FP. To make a more direct comparison in this regard the Super Sniper should be compared against the Vortex Razor.

thanks, did not realize the SS 1-4 was FFP, that does explain the price a bit (or at least educate me about who they're competing with). i'm still not sure why I need a FFP 1-4 optic (was scratching my head about this comparing the vortex razor and viper), but that's a different thread...

[Graham Smith]

the Super Sniper is a First Focal Plane scope where as the PST is a 2nd Focal Plane scope

And that's a big difference if you are looking at using any kind of BDC reticle for holdovers. I like the PST scopes in general (I'd like one for my .308) but there are a lot of features on this scope that are wasted. Having tall uncapped turrets with a zero stop are great on a 4-12x scope where you are likely to be dialing in corrections for distance shots, but the whole purpose of a 1-4 with a hash reticle is to be able to do quick holdovers, not to do ranging and dial in corrections.

As for the name "Super Sniper", that was inherited when they bought the line from someone (Tasco I think) and their scopes have gotten better and proven to be a pretty darn good bang for the buck. Their 3-9x42mm and 10x42mm are solid mid-range scopes that are well liked.

[pjb45]

Just as a side note: I shot a 3G match this weekend where 2.5-3x was the right amount of magnification. 1.5x was not quite enough and 4X was too much. So for me, having the ability to adjust the power is a big deal.

[johnnywitt]

Well, I guess you do need a variable vs a 1x OR 4x then. I believe that you can get the SS with Capped Turrets now. SS is a goofy name. They aren't doing themselves any favors there with that name.

Edited March 15, 2011 by johnnywitt

[smokshwn]

thanks, did not realize the SS 1-4 was FFP, that does explain the price a bit (or at least educate me about who they're competing with). i'm still not sure why I need a FFP 1-4 optic (was scratching my head about this comparing the vortex razor and viper), but that's a different thread...

To give you a specific example why FFP vs. SFP, let's say you want to be in that intermediate magnification range for the FOV advantage but the targets in question are still at a distance where you want to use the reticle subtensions to engage them. With an FFP no worries, the reticle will always subtend the same measurement regardless of magnification. With a SFP scope the reticle is only accurate at one magnification. If you need to use it at any other magnification you need to correct for the difference in subtension.

Well, I guess you do need a variable vs a 1x OR 4x then. I believe that you can get the SS with Capped Turrets now. SS is a goofy name. They aren't doing themselves any favors there with that name.

Not necessarily NEED just trying to explain why there isn't more 1 OR 4 scopes out there. This thread got me looking and both the IOR Pitbull and Elcan weigh 23oz where most 1-4's are running 16-18 oz.

And yes I can see where some make fun of the name but SWFA has done some really nice stuff with this line of scopes and has quite a solid reputation with them so I can see their reluctance to change the name.

Edited March 15, 2011 by smokshwn

[johnnywitt]

To give you a specific example why FFP vs. SFP, let's say you want to be in that intermediate magnification range for the FOV advantage but the targets in question are still at a distance where you want to use the reticle subtensions to engage them. With an FFP no worries, the reticle will always subtend the same measurement regardless of magnification. With a SFP scope the reticle is only accurate at one magnification. If you need to use it at any other magnification you need to correct for the difference in subtension.

Well, I guess you do need a variable vs a 1x OR 4x then. I believe that you can get the SS with Capped Turrets now. SS is a goofy name. They aren't doing themselves any favors there with that name.

Not necessarily NEED just trying to explain why there isn't more 1 OR 4 scopes out there. This thread got me looking and both the IOR Pitbull and Elcan weigh 23oz where most 1-4's are running 16-18 oz.

And yes I can see where some make fun of the name but SWFA has done some really nice stuff with this line of scopes and has quite a solid reputation with them so I can see their reluctance to change the name.

Yeah Shawn, I'm totally OK with the name, but some aren't apparently. I just care about the quality and usability of the scope. I'm planning on buying this optic 1st and then later getting the Razor as funds permit. I just wanted some of the "Big Guns" opinions first. I firmly believe that if something works it will be a 3 gunner that will probably figure it out first. 3 Gun seems to be a proving ground for equipment and new ideas. The LEO and Military SPEC OPS communities seem to get trickle down from what you Guys are doing. Although stuff trickles the other way as well- just not as often.

I haven't gotten into 3 gun yet. I'm busy building my skills and just having fun on my "Home Range". I have a 110 yard shot up my meadow and a good 25yd pistol range into the hill beside my house. Looking to try and get some good poppers and gravity reset targets for all calibers and get my 2 CF carbines (I have my .22LR carbine already set up with a TS upper with 12" SWS Rail and PEPR w/ Weaver 1X3). This sport gets pretty spendy fast. Kinda have to ease your way in stealth mode to keep from running afoul of the spousal unit.

Edited March 15, 2011 by johnnywitt

[raz-0]

anyone know what the FOV at 100 yards is with the super sniper?

[moose76]

anyone know what the FOV at 100 yards is with the super sniper?

97.48'

SWFA SS 1-4x24 Specs

[AlamoShooter]

I have not spent much time behind a SWFA but to respond to the 1 or 4 power question & the Razor. Like smokes says, plenty of times over the year that 1 is not enough but 4 is too much. with the FFP scope like the Razor the reticle will not lie to me.

If you find your self at the Texas Multi Gun aka LaRue event look me up for a hand on with the Razor.

The Razor is going to be hard to find at less than $1,200 , But the Razor has given me more Joy in the past three months than the Meopta did in two years.

[turnandshoot4]

How does the glass compare with the two? At the end of the day the glass is my main factor.

I am looking at the votrex and the SWFA for 3 gun. I'm mounting it in a larue mount on top of my SCAR 17. The FFP would be REALLY nice when you need to stretch a shot out.

[cajun0007]

I just purchased the SS 1-4 w/ the donut reticle a few weeks ago. This optic is replacing my TR24 w/ the green triangle reticle. I really liked the TR24 for 0-200 yards but struggled to make shots beyond 250. I was trying to decide between the Vortex and SS and ended up with the SS because I preferred the reticle. After two very long rifle sessions shooting with the new scope I can say that I am very pleased with the SS. I zeroed it at 200 and was easily hitting a 12 inch plate at 300 and 400 yards every time. I never missed a 36 inch square at 500 yards. I know that may not be impressive to most of you on this forum but I couldn't do it with my TR24.

The glass is great and the illumination can be seen in bright light. However, I preferred shooting at distance with no illumination. I will probably only use the illumination in low light situations or cqb stages.

The SS is good to go!

James

[ccoker]

been playing with a TAC30 and have had a LOT of the good 1-4s

I tried the Razor 1-4 and wasn't blown away by it frankly and preferred the TAC30

I just got in a Weaver 1-5 Tactical, FFP, mil based / BDC type reticle

so far, I am really liking it

need to post some pics up of the reticle

I plan to use it this weekend in a 3g match, used the Tac30 a few weeks ago and liked it

I have tested it's BDC out to 500 yards but the match had nothing over 100 yards

I am hoping the one this weekend does so I can test the Weaver out

[moose76]

been playing with a TAC30 and have had a LOT of the good 1-4s

I tried the Razor 1-4 and wasn't blown away by it frankly and preferred the TAC30

I just got in a Weaver 1-5 Tactical, FFP, mil based / BDC type reticle

so far, I am really liking it

need to post some pics up of the reticle

I plan to use it this weekend in a 3g match, used the Tac30 a few weeks ago and liked it

I have tested it's BDC out to 500 yards but the match had nothing over 100 yards

I am hoping the one this weekend does so I can test the Weaver out

I have been seriously looking at that Weaver as well. Please let us know how it performs for you.

[Tattoo]

been playing with a TAC30 and have had a LOT of the good 1-4s

I tried the Razor 1-4 and wasn't blown away by it frankly and preferred the TAC30

I just got in a Weaver 1-5 Tactical, FFP, mil based / BDC type reticle

so far, I am really liking it

need to post some pics up of the reticle

I plan to use it this weekend in a 3g match, used the Tac30 a few weeks ago and liked it

I have tested it's BDC out to 500 yards but the match had nothing over 100 yards

I am hoping the one this weekend does so I can test the Weaver out

So is the Weaver a TRUE 1-5 like their cheaper 1-3 scope????

T

[bagdrag]

Regarding FFP vs. SFP, how important is FFP for the low powered variables in this sport? Looks like most of the FFP variable reticles BDCs are useless (too small to see) at 1x and I can't imagine it being too much more useful at anything other than max power.

However I could be wrong on the usefulness. So I'm wondering for those that use the intermediate powers, do you make use of the BDC? It seems like with the flat trajectory of the .223/5.56 round and the optic being zeroed for either 200 or 300 yards you wouldn't need the BDC other than for distances that need max power anyways.

I am an optics neophyte so I pretty much have no idea what I'm talking about. Please excuse my noobness.

[SMSI]

Has anyone put together a page comparing life size reitcles at 1x and 4x side by side? including that new Weaver 1-5 would be great. I am really interested in hearing more about that.