stinsonbeach Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 (edited) I've done some "boneheaded" things in the past - no comment "Rolex" - but this has to be one of the dumbest & for the life of me, I can't figure how I did it! I've got 2 Para (both Canadian) P-14 double-stack .45s - one 5 the other 6". I wanted to take the magwell off the 5" & put on the 6". Simple enough so far. I pulled them apart together (I know, I know) - not knowing the 6" has the shims like the 1911 Mod 80's. Had a time getting that straight, but that's another story! I wasn't too careful about putting them back together. "...parts is parts..." yes? Obviously NO! I switched the leaf-springs & the main spring housings. Big deal no? Obviously YES! Since then I've switched & re-switched parts in & out, but I think everything is back to square one, but . . . Ok now the long-winded explanation finished here's what I've got... Both will not cock if I rack them quickly...will if I rack'em slowly. Both will cock sometimes if I thumb them back. Neither grip safeties work. Neither thumb safeties work. My brain obviously no longer "works" either. Help. -jb Edited March 5, 2011 by stinsonbeach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Gene Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 (edited) Let he among us who has not done something stupid (and it doesn't have to be this stupid) cast the first stone! I had my Edge approximately 10 minutes before I broke it the first time! I was so pissed I put the pieces in baggies and didn't look at it for months, hahaha. Now, hopefully you will get some constructive advice! WG Edited March 5, 2011 by Wild Gene Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfpmb Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Yeah, I think we have all been there. Since you may not know the difference if any between parts or specific assembly, check for videos of takedown and assembly to see if the issue is that. Since at this point you do not have SAFE functioning pistols, I would reach out to a friend or gunsmith to break them down and inspect them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Easiest place to funk things up is the sear, disconnector, sear spring arrangement. That would explain all your problems, including the GS issue. Go find diagrams and instructions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle O Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Find a youtube video explaining all of this. That's how I did it the first time, Oh, and don't beat yourself up to bad. If you don't try, you won't learn. Some lessons must be paid for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinsonbeach Posted March 5, 2011 Author Share Posted March 5, 2011 (edited) Thanks everyone - Wild Gene, sfpmb, diehli, Kyle O. Update: I've never had a problem taking apart or putting a 1911 back together again - apologies to Humpty. This is what I find odd - both guns (I've had the 5" for a while & pulled it apart & put it back together many times w/ no ill effects) have the same problems. I may have switched the leaf springs, but that's all. I KNOW (I din't take the disconnector / sear out of the 5" so I couldn't have mixed them) the disconnectors & sears are in the right guns. I mean it's pretty fool-proof on how it goes back together. I've done it enough . . . & why would it work the way it does - shouldn't work at all, no? . . . & why do both guns have the exact same problem? Jeeze . . . -jb Edited March 5, 2011 by stinsonbeach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolex Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Let he among us who has not done something stupid (and it doesn't have to be this stupid) cast the first stone! I had my Edge approximately 10 minutes before I broke it the first time! I was so pissed I put the pieces in baggies and didn't look at it for months, hahaha. Now, hopefully you will get some constructive advice! WG Constructive advise? You are not a gunsmith! Even though you have a "DREMEL" :roflol: :roflol: :roflol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolex Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Thanks everyone - Wild Gene, sfpmb, diehli, Kyle O. Update: I've never had a problem taking apart or putting a 1911 back together again - apologies to Humpty. This is what I find odd - both guns (I've had the 5" for a while & pulled it apart & put it back together many times w/ no ill effects) have the same problems. I may have switched the leaf springs, but that's all. I KNOW (I din't take the disconnector / sear out of the 5" so I couldn't have mixed them) the disconnectors & sears are in the right guns. I mean it's pretty fool-proof on how it goes back together. I've done it enough . . . & why would it work the way it does - shouldn't work at all, no? . . . & why do both guns have the exact same problem? Jeeze . . . -jb Do I need to remind you about the: STANCHECK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bofe954 Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 My bet is that you just didn't get the sear springs back in right. They can be a pain sometimes. Pull the mainspring housing. Pull the grip safety. Lay the sear spring (leaf spring) on correctly. Slide the mainspring housing on about half way so it holds the bottom of the sear spring in it's slot and puts some pressure on the rest of it. Put the grip safety back on, push the mainspring housing on all the way. Compare the sear springs if you want. I'd be pretty surprised if you couldn't swap them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviesterno Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 I've done the same thing with multiple sear springs for multiple 1911s in pieces. It took a few times or checking springs, re-assembling, and repeating. I got it figured out, and it was the left sear spring leaf not lining up correctly. Good news is I can detail strip and re-assemble a 1911 govt quicker than I can undo some bras... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinsonbeach Posted March 5, 2011 Author Share Posted March 5, 2011 Let he among us who has not done something stupid (and it doesn't have to be this stupid) cast the first stone! I had my Edge approximately 10 minutes before I broke it the first time! I was so pissed I put the pieces in baggies and didn't look at it for months, hahaha. Now, hopefully you will get some constructive advice! WG Constructive advise? You are not a gunsmith! Even though you have a "DREMEL" :roflol: :roflol: :roflol: *** "...no no, Nannette." ! It sez so right on the box! -jb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinsonbeach Posted March 5, 2011 Author Share Posted March 5, 2011 Thanks everyone - Wild Gene, sfpmb, diehli, Kyle O. Update: I've never had a problem taking apart or putting a 1911 back together again - apologies to Humpty. This is what I find odd - both guns (I've had the 5" for a while & pulled it apart & put it back together many times w/ no ill effects) have the same problems. I may have switched the leaf springs, but that's all. I KNOW (I din't take the disconnector / sear out of the 5" so I couldn't have mixed them) the disconnectors & sears are in the right guns. I mean it's pretty fool-proof on how it goes back together. I've done it enough . . . & why would it work the way it does - shouldn't work at all, no? . . . & why do both guns have the exact same problem? Jeeze . . . -jb Do I need to remind you about the: STANCHECK? Wa'??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinsonbeach Posted March 5, 2011 Author Share Posted March 5, 2011 "bofe754" - yeah - guess I'll just pull'em both apart again & keep swappin' til they work! "steviesterno" - women still wear bras? -jb ps I really appreciate hearing that I'm not the only one . . . hear that "Rolex"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juan Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Its possible you got the disconnectors swapped. I tried to put a disconnector off one of my old guns into a new gun, and it did the same thing. funny thing when i moved the whole trigger group over it was fine. I figured it was how the sear interacted with the disconnector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Gene Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 "bofe754" - yeah - guess I'll just pull'em both apart again & keep swappin' til they work! "steviesterno" - women still wear bras? -jb ps I really appreciate hearing that I'm not the only one . . . hear that "Rolex"? Yea, I'd tell him to "go wind your watch" or sompin. Wild Gene Have Dremel, will travel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinsonbeach Posted March 5, 2011 Author Share Posted March 5, 2011 "jaun" - yeah I thought of that, then remember I DIDN'T take the 5" disconnector/sear out...if my wiffle-ball brain isn't playing tricks on me! But I'm sure I didn't...& that's why I'm stumped that they both are having the exact same problems. "Wild Gene" - exactly so, Gene. Exactly so!!! -jb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 If they were mine I would get two new sear springs and start over. If you are sure you did not mix up sears, disconnectors etc. that should solve the problem. If that does not work get out your Dremel and grind away until the parts start moving freely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted March 5, 2011 Share Posted March 5, 2011 Whew! I'm so glad you weren't talking about this! http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=123432&view=findpost&p=1395133&hl=unsafe&fromsearch=1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 "jaun" - yeah I thought of that, then remember I DIDN'T take the 5" disconnector/sear out...if my wiffle-ball brain isn't playing tricks on me! But I'm sure I didn't...& that's why I'm stumped that they both are having the exact same problems. "Wild Gene" - exactly so, Gene. Exactly so!!! -jb It doesn't matter whether you took them out. If things got jostled & the sear spring was put in wrong, the 5-incher's parts could be in the same (wrong) position as the 6-incher. The disconnector, sear, & sear spring positions being off is consistent with the hammer not resetting when you rack & the safety not functioning. The GSes not working indicates pretty clearly that you've got the sear springs in wrong. Order to put fire control parts in: Trigger (if removed) Disconnector w/ flat on back of trigger bow, head in hole, & angled part towards rear of gun Sear, with its legs resting on the disconnector's "wings" Sear pin Sear spring w/ left leg on left leg of sear (so, from rear of gun it goes sear spring, sear leg, discon wing, trigger bow) & center leg on angled part of discon Hammer & hammer pin Depending on what GS you have, you may have to do GS, thumb safety, then MSH. With STI GS, you can do MSH, GS, TS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinsonbeach Posted March 6, 2011 Author Share Posted March 6, 2011 "Jaxshooter" - Dremels Are Us!!! "GrumpyOne" - just getting ready...just getting ready "diehli" - ya' know the spring was put in right, but that's what I thought. Everything speaks to that. Tomorrow I'm going to pull them both apart, try each sear spring & this time be VERY careful when I seat the hammer strut. Maybe I shook 'em loose when I was seating it. Maybe. I can't think of what else it could be & it seems most of you think so too. I'll let you know. I've no problems w/ my STI's or other 1911's - in fact I didn't have any problem w/ these until I started to "mix & match". I'll never learn... -jb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinsonbeach Posted March 6, 2011 Author Share Posted March 6, 2011 Update: I seem to have the 6" running, but the 5" still looks "iffy". Today's Sunday - range is packed & too much "boom" off my back porch. Will check tomorrow. Ordered 2 leaf-springs - that outta' fix any of my screw ups! -jb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooter57 Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 My guess is the left finger on the main spring is sliding under the sear and not on top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinsonbeach Posted March 7, 2011 Author Share Posted March 7, 2011 "shooter57" - that is a very good guess & I agree w/ you, that's why I quit screwing around & bought 2 new (from the factory) leaf springs. Wll let you know. -jb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shooter57 Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 "shooter57" - that is a very good guess & I agree w/ you, that's why I quit screwing around & bought 2 new (from the factory) leaf springs. Wll let you know. -jb If you did not try adjusting the fingers then it should be fine. I like to hold the spring in place while I slide the housing up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted March 7, 2011 Share Posted March 7, 2011 New sear springs are not the solution... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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