thehandyman87 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) Hi everyone. This is my first post, but I've been a long time reader. I just purchased my first open gun - a new .38 super STI Trubor. I finally received my Brazos tuned 170mm and 140mm mags as well. When I shot it in a knock down steel match yesterday, I had multiple nosedive jams. Also, while showing clear, the loaded round would not eject. When pulling the slide back, the slide would stop short of all the way back, and the right side of the bullet nose was pressing against the right inside edge of the chamber, not letting the round eject. It seemed as if the slide went back far enough to let the back of the round contact the ejector, but the round was so long that as the ejector tried to kick it out, it contacted the inside of the chamber. Do you think the rounds are too long? Any help is much appreciated. My load is: 125 gr Hornady HAP 7.0 gr hodgdon longshot 1.250 OAL New Starline .38 super brass CCI Primers The picture below is as far as I can pull the slide back before it stops. Thanks everyone! Edited February 28, 2011 by thehandyman87 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn jones Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 i like to run my bullets 1.0245. you may be a little long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehandyman87 Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 That short huh? Do you think it will cause any pressure issues with my load? Even my 9mm loads are longer than that! (121 gr HAP at 1.06 OAL). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MVZ Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 1.250 should work.Looking at your picture I believe your measurement is way off. The bullet should be seated much deeper on a super. MVZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KermitShooter Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 Please make sure your measurements are correct. I load my 38's to 1.235. If they still will not eject, you may have to shorten the ejector, which is probably an extended style ejector. Check with David Cupp at STI if you need any help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snake32 Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 i run my 38 sc at 1.250 with no problems at all. my load is 10.5gr VV n105 124gr mg cmj 1.250 oal with cci small rifle primers starline 38 sc brass. my gun runs them 100%. double check your oal. in the pic it looks a litle long but could be the way the bullet is made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) I always ran my 38 SC 1.235 maximum. Anything longer was trouble. It looks like the slide is not going back far enough. I just checked both of my open guns and you cannot come close to seeing the barrel hood when the slideis all the way to the rear. In you picture you can see the hood as well as part of the barrel. Is your recoil spring to long and are you running a shok buff? Is the guide rod catching on the plug when you hand cycle the gun? Edited February 28, 2011 by Jaxshooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehandyman87 Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 1.250 should work.Looking at your picture I believe your measurement is way off. The bullet should be seated much deeper on a super. MVZ I don't think my measurement is that far off (check the picture below). I measured them with a set of digital calipers when loading, but I don't have them with me right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehandyman87 Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 Please make sure your measurements are correct. I load my 38's to 1.235. If they still will not eject, you may have to shorten the ejector, which is probably an extended style ejector. Check with David Cupp at STI if you need any help. That was one of the first things I noticed upon disassembling the gun the first time - the ejector is quite long. You think this might be the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehandyman87 Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 I always ran my 38 SC 1.235 maximum. Anything longer was trouble. Is it a Brazos tuned gun? If so call and ask him what length he recommends. I think if you load a true 1.235 it will eliminate your problem. It is hard to tell from a picture but your current load looks alot longer than 1.250. I'll definitely try shortening the length down. I think I'll try a few at 1.235 and 1.225. Its amazing how many problems a few hundredths of an inch can cause! It is not a Brazos tuned gun, but the magazines I am using are Brazos tuned with Grams springs and followers and a Dawson basepad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted February 28, 2011 Share Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) The ejector does not look to long. Edited February 28, 2011 by Jaxshooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehandyman87 Posted February 28, 2011 Author Share Posted February 28, 2011 (edited) I always ran my 38 SC 1.235 maximum. Anything longer was trouble. It looks like the slide is not going back far enough. I just checked both of my open guns and you cannot come close to seeing the barrel hood when the slideis all the way to the rear. In you picture you can see the hood as well as part of the barrel. Is your recoil spring to long and are you running a shok buff? Is the guide rod catching on the plug when you hand cycle the gun? Yes, the slide does not go back far enough when I try to eject a loaded road thats in the chamber. When the gun is empty the slide cycles fully to the rear as usual. Stock recoil spring, no shock buffs, nothing of the sort. Completely stock Trubor. You think the ejector looks ok? Its much longer than the ejector on my springfield 1911. Edited March 1, 2011 by thehandyman87 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vernbo Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 The length of your loads seem o.k. the length of the ejector is more than likely the reason a loaded round will not eject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehandyman87 Posted March 1, 2011 Author Share Posted March 1, 2011 The length of your loads seem o.k. the length of the ejector is more than likely the reason a loaded round will not eject. So is that to say that my Trubor's ejector just happens to be extra long in comparison to other Trubors? Anyone with a Trubor out there having the same issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjanglin Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Might try taking your gun apart and look closely at the the inside of the reverse plug and the tag ends of your recoil spring your spring ends should be smooth and not grab your finger nail when ya drag it over the nail, your recoil spring rotates when compressed , inside of your reverse plug end where the tag end of the apring rides should be smooth with no rough spots. looks like your slide is not coming back far enough. Look your guide rod assembly over real good. Jim/Pa Sailors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 (edited) Are you just gently pulling the slide to the rear? Or forcefully pulling it? Are you trying to catch or just gently drop the bullet out at ULSC? If it ejects normally under operating conditions (I.E. firing), then it's probably not the ejector. Pull back HARD on the slide, just like you had a full mag but with none in the chamber to eject the live round and see what that does. Are you running a recoil master spring? Or just a regular recoil spring? If it's a regular spring, check for coil bind if the above did not rectify the problem. Edited March 1, 2011 by GrumpyOne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehli Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Compare the ejector lengths: http://www.brazoscustom.com/magart/ejection%20perfection.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehandyman87 Posted March 1, 2011 Author Share Posted March 1, 2011 Might try taking your gun apart and look closely at the the inside of the reverse plug and the tag ends of your recoil spring your spring ends should be smooth and not grab your finger nail when ya drag it over the nail, your recoil spring rotates when compressed , inside of your reverse plug end where the tag end of the apring rides should be smooth with no rough spots. looks like your slide is not coming back far enough. Look your guide rod assembly over real good. Jim/Pa Sailors Just checked, and everything looks pretty smooth with no hang ups. Are you just gently pulling the slide to the rear? Or forcefully pulling it? Are you trying to catch or just gently drop the bullet out at ULSC? If it ejects normally under operating conditions (I.E. firing), then it's probably not the ejector. Pull back HARD on the slide, just like you had a full mag but with none in the chamber to eject the live round and see what that does. Are you running a recoil master spring? Or just a regular recoil spring? If it's a regular spring, check for coil bind if the above did not rectify the problem. I'm not pulling the slide back all that gently. When going through the unload sequence, I drop the mag, then pull back on the slide to rack the chambered round out. The slide comes to an abrupt stop before it is fully rearward (look at the picture in the 1st post of this thread). Any amount of force/cajoling after repeated tries did not rack the round out, and I ended up just firing the round out at the instruction of the Range Officer. It ejects empty cases just fine - when they're not nosediving into the feed ramp first, which also happened multiple times in less than 100 rounds of firing. I'm only having problems when trying to rack out a loaded round. The recoil spring is just a regular spring with the full length guide rod and reverse plug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehandyman87 Posted March 1, 2011 Author Share Posted March 1, 2011 Compare the ejector lengths: http://www.brazoscustom.com/magart/ejection%20perfection.htm Comparing the top of the ejectors from the rear to the tip, according to the picture, the Brazos ejector on the website looks to be 1.178 in. long if my scale calculations are correct. My ejector measures approximately 1.25 in. long. So its about a 0.072 in. longer than the Brazos ejector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Drop the OAL down to 1.235. That will fix your issues, I'm betting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McGunner Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 I had the same problem with ejecting a live round(1.235) with my Grandmaster when it was factory fresh. In my situation it turned out to be the ejector. Took a file to it till it was able to eject without the round hanging up on the barrel. Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CocoBolo Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Just to reinforce what Grumpy one said the "preferred" OAL for 38S or 38SC is 1.235, this also what Benny Hill told me. I have run Zero 125JHP as long as 1.275 in my gun without any issues, either loading or unloading. Run them back thru the seater and crimp and shorten them down and see how that works. I've done this many times and the rounds still shoot good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 Also, YES...if you shorten your OAL your pressure will go up. Drop the charge weight down and start over with your load developement if/when you do shorten your OAL. Be careful yanking back on the slide with a loaded round that is hanging up. You could cause the round to detonate due to the primer being rammed into the ejector. Get some calipers (Harbor Freight sells a cheap pair, if you spent all your big money on the Open gun and brass). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rma_38sup Posted March 1, 2011 Share Posted March 1, 2011 I had a 9 major tru-bor that had zero extractor tension and a totally unmodified ejoctor. We put in a Brazo's tuned ejector and an aftec. Runs just fine now. Robert L2723 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thehandyman87 Posted March 1, 2011 Author Share Posted March 1, 2011 (edited) Thanks everyone for all the fast replies! I will try shortening the round down to 1.235 and develop the load again before I touch the ejector. I'll probably start at 7.2 grains of longshot, then 7.4, 7.6, 7.8, and 8.0. Sound like a good plan? Also, you guys think shortening the load will solve the nose dive problems? Flex, I do have calipers - at my parent's place where I use my dad's Dillon 650. Thats why load development for me is a pain in the ass - they live in CT and I live in NJ! Has anyone got data for 125 HAPs thru a Trubor with longshot? I chronoed some of the loads I came up with and this is what I got: All with 125 Hornady HAP at 1.250 OAL with CCI small pistol primers. 7.0 gr longshot: 171.9 PF 7.2 gr longshot: 166.9 PF 7.4 gr longshot: 160.7 PF 7.6 gr longshot: 163.3 PF It seems as if my velocities got lower as added more powder, then came back up a little. After searching the boards for awhile, it also seems like most people are using between 7.5 - 8 grains of longshot, but my chono data doesn't seem to support that. The chrono data could also be wrong. Any ideas about why that might be? Edited March 1, 2011 by thehandyman87 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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