Johnny Kalasnakov Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I love AKs and have been using them in 3-gun... I seem to be the only one shooting 7.62 x 39 in the matches... everyone else is using .223... anyone else using 7.62 x 39? am I the only one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=122504 http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=74220&st=0&p=859240&hl=ak&fromsearch=1entry859240 http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=14477&st=0&p=167493&hl=ak&fromsearch=1entry167493 granted a couple of those are a bit dated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sono Posted February 16, 2011 Share Posted February 16, 2011 I run my 5.45 from time to time. It's fun and gets a laugh. This is about fun right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPQR476 Posted September 14, 2011 Share Posted September 14, 2011 I like the AK platform, and running an interarms 7.62 gun with an Aimpoint micro and a FH, it was good enough to place second on a couple AM rifle stages at Rockcastle. Lacking magnification, I had some issues on the longer range small targets with te 4 MOA dot in the micro, and yes the rainbow trajectory takes some extra thought. The ergos are fine if the selector is adjusted properly and you run it like an AK and not an AR, and mag changes are fast enough if you are loading on the move...I'd venture that I can swap ak mags at a pretty comparable speed to a lot of AR changes out there. Can I swap an AR faster? Yep. But, I like the AK. I certainly didn't have to deal with any stoppages. I intend to keep shooting this platform, although I'm working right now with a Texas Weapon Systems gen 2 top cover that is proving solid and repeatable...it allows me to mount a low power variable low over the bore,and there are plenty of stock options to get the cheek weld right. I'll also probably start running a 74, hence my other question in rifle-technical, so I'm not so handicapped by more recoil from the .30 cal, and the 5.45 is essentially a ballistic twin to the 5.56 for drop. Ammo is indeed a handicap for the 7.62 variant...the gun I shot was a 3 MOA gun with the russian stuff, but the interarms gun I'm playing with now is a 2 MOA gun with hornady A-max steel case. Running a 74, the V-max steel will be a great option. No steel at all in the projos, and more accurate than the combloc. Practice ammo is still cheap, though...15 cents a round or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 AK's are reliable but they can malfunction and I have had it happen on rare occasion. Generally speaking the AR is far more reliable than people give it credit for and the AK is more accurate than most people give it credit for. I like both guys but prefer the AR for everything from the game to real life. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPQR476 Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 (edited) No argument here on reliability or accuracy. There are a lot of shoddy, cheap aks out there, too, and you can easily have one that is dangerously unreliable. I also never had an m4 failure in two combat tours but have had failures in adverse training conditions. However, after using the AR platform professionally and personally as my primary arm for over a decade, now that I have a choice, I much prefer the Kalashnikov platform. Good examples of the species are more robust, less finicky, more suited to ambidextrous operation, and as accurate as most rack grade m4s with appropriate ammo, which thanks to hornady, is now available in their steel case sst and vmax loads for the 7.62and 5.45 Russian cals. The cartridge selections also have something going for them depending on application. Optics mounting used to be an issue, but now with accessories like the tws topcover, it's not an issue, and I can run a low power variable, a dot, or whatever else in the same location and height above bore as an AR. There are finally trigger options that aren't so ugly, as well, like the rsa, and there's one in the works at a major trigger mfg that should be great. I could go on, but In any case, in the circles I run in, the ak is more popular as a choice of combat arm, and despite limitations in the gaming applications, I will probably continue to use a commie rifle in games, also, just to be same- same. Different strokes for different folks, and I'm not disparaging the AR platform... Nothing horribly wrong with it, its just that for these and other reasons, I prefer other platforms. Edited September 15, 2011 by SPQR476 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chills1994 Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 (edited) ^^^ You sound like one of those Tactical Response alums. Edited to add this: I have a DPMS Sportical AR in 7.62X39. I am waiting for mags to get delivered. I am sure I have probably posted pictures of my 100 yard groups here in another thread. our 3 gun/multigun games are kinda slanted or tilted, in my opinion, towards the .223/AR I have PM'ed our European counterparts who shoot IPSC 3 gun, and their games have major/minor PF scoring on paper targets way, way out farther than how we have paper here in the U.S. we would rather go with some steel target at say 200 yards, which doesn't discriminate between major/minor PF. well...hey...at least that is what I have been told. Edited September 15, 2011 by Chills1994 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPQR476 Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 No, not a TR alum. Alum of other places that like the AK, though, and a lot of exposure to both platforms in use. The games definitely seem to slant towards the strengths of the .223 AR, and I have no problem with that...it's our arm of national defense, and it works exceptionally well in many circumstances. You have to write the rules somehow, and as fair and unbiased as you can try to make them, there will just always be some rule or other or some stage design that appears to slant one way or other, and I'm not the kind of guy to belly ache about rule changes or scoring, or what not. Heck, I like the time - penalties scoring and the neutralization criteria from a lot of the outlaw stuff. It's easy and simple. It's a game. No worries. I do think, however, that if you're used to running an AK like an AK, it's a GOOD AK, set up right, and there aren't a lot of standing mandatory mag changes...haven't seen too many of those...you could be extremely competitive against ARs using a 5.45 AK74 platform. So...as evidenced by my question about brake size, I'm gonna give that a shot. Even with a short .30, no brake, and 1x optics, you can be competitive to a degree...there were 2 RC AM rifle stages there in which 143 guys with ARs finished behind my dumb arse running a folding stock .30 cal AK. Would I have done better running an AR in .223? It's hard to argue that it wouldn't be very likely, but I ran what I wanted. I think that with a 5.45x39 with a brake to put recoil and downrange drop characteristics on parity with the .223 with a brake, a low power variable on a TWS rail, a red star arms or similar trigger, and a stock that gives an appropriate cheek weld, it could be a competitive platform. I have seen 1-1.5 MOA groups out of a 5.45 AK with nothing special done other than a decent barrel and a decent build with good ammo, so it's capable of hanging in that category. 45 round RPK-74 magazines are everywhere for the 5.45 platform. We'll see. Maybe I'll consider it a wash after a season and go back to running an AR for games. It'll be a fun time, and I'll have a built in excuse if I blow it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DyNo! Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 The only thing holding the AK back from being a serious match gun is the lack of a free float rail. My 5.56 AK is accurate up to 2MOA. The sight radius sucks but if you run an optic, you can get around that. The trigger reset is comparatively long and would hinder you in a close range hosing stage. I wouldn't shoot an AK in 3-gun because making it match ready would be expensive and time consuming compared to doing the same to an AR15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kellyn Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 I want all my competitors to shoot AKs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 If you want an AK platform for 3-gun, go with the SIG 556. AK piston system, AR ergonomics (ish). Still inferior for 3-gunning versus a direct gas impingement AR15 IMHO. I'm with Kelly... the more AKs at 3-gun, the better I will like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPQR476 Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 If you want an AK platform for 3-gun, go with the SIG 556. AK piston system, AR ergonomics (ish). Still inferior for 3-gunning versus a direct gas impingement AR15 IMHO. I'm with Kelly... the more AKs at 3-gun, the better I will like it. I'm no fan of the SIG at all. I like AK ergos. I'm not saying it will be optimal...just not a huge handicap. The gun I shot at RC was under $800 with all mods before the optic itself, and I already had it laying around set up the way i shot it...a comparable 74 with an RSA trigger to deal with reset/pre-travel and the arbitrary let-off, and it works. I can run the trigger on a stock 7.62 AK just a hundreth or so slower than my splits with an RRA NM trigger when hosing as it is. No free float does hurt a bit...I've experienced some vertical stringing in hot guns. We'll see. Maybe it's all for naught, and I'll be running one of my ARs before long. Maybe I'm thinking about it wrong...I did fine with my first foray into AK 3-gun as more of a stunt than anything, but since it is technically a game, and doing well is kind of the point....I might get frustrated quickly working with the handicap in a strong field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krdshrk Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 From my group who shot a Zombie 3gun last weekend, the only guy who had problems with his rifle was a guy with an AK! He was having tons of feed issues and couldn't finish the last 2 stages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPQR476 Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 From my group who shot a Zombie 3gun last weekend, the only guy who had problems with his rifle was a guy with an AK! He was having tons of feed issues and couldn't finish the last 2 stages. I hear you. I see guys show up for training all the time throwing around comments like "why do I have to learn to clear stoppages, I have an AK" and stuff like that, and then 10 minutes later they are taking a boot to the charging handle or scrounging for a broken case extractor. I've seen $2000 piston ARs take a dump, though, too. A $400 Century underfolder hobbled together by guys making $9 an hour and fed from TAPCO mags is not the ideal instrument for any task, including this. Sure you might get a gem, but the odds aren't in your favor. I do all the work, that's why the $800 price point was there, but a good AK costs what a good AR costs, generally. I'm sure that most of the competition crowd's exposure to the AK in multi or 3-gun is through the guy that shows up running an affordable rifle with little to no competition experience, and having never taken the time to figure out all his rifle, magazine, gear, etc., issues, so it looks like a train wreck. Nothing wrong with that either, but it's a painful way to learn. However, I find it just as tragic to watch the guy with $10k in guns have a meltdown becuase instead of training ammo, he bought guns that he can't capitalize on because he hasn't trained. But hey, If you figure you have 2 days walking around a match and a total of less than 10 minutes actually shooting, the guy with the $10k in guns looks good 99.7% percent of the match. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted September 15, 2011 Share Posted September 15, 2011 From my group who shot a Zombie 3gun last weekend, the only guy who had problems with his rifle was a guy with an AK! He was having tons of feed issues and couldn't finish the last 2 stages. I hear you. I see guys show up for training all the time throwing around comments like "why do I have to learn to clear stoppages, I have an AK" and stuff like that, and then 10 minutes later they are taking a boot to the charging handle or scrounging for a broken case extractor. I've seen $2000 piston ARs take a dump, though, too. A $400 Century underfolder hobbled together by guys making $9 an hour and fed from TAPCO mags is not the ideal instrument for any task, including this. Sure you might get a gem, but the odds aren't in your favor. I do all the work, that's why the $800 price point was there, but a good AK costs what a good AR costs, generally. I'm sure that most of the competition crowd's exposure to the AK in multi or 3-gun is through the guy that shows up running an affordable rifle with little to no competition experience, and having never taken the time to figure out all his rifle, magazine, gear, etc., issues, so it looks like a train wreck. Nothing wrong with that either, but it's a painful way to learn. However, I find it just as tragic to watch the guy with $10k in guns have a meltdown becuase instead of training ammo, he bought guns that he can't capitalize on because he hasn't trained. But hey, If you figure you have 2 days walking around a match and a total of less than 10 minutes actually shooting, the guy with the $10k in guns looks good 99.7% percent of the match. :-) Training and practice is essential but when it comes to gear I am of the buy once cry once midset vs the buy entry level crap and keep upgrading and losing money at each step. Pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPQR476 Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 I have a hard time with large outlays on firearms dedicated to competition and not really practical for other purposes. I'll probably never run a widebody sti, and even if I did run an AR, it would just be my 16" Rra mid length with a vortex 1-4x and a brake on it. I buy once, cry once on firearms all the time, but I may never get to a happy place with buying game guns, and I may indeed be denied a certain increment of success because of that. . Anyway, this is a rabbit hole off the original post, and my fault for ending up here. Anyway, thanks for the discussion gents, and maybe I'll see some of you at some of the matches. I'll be the guy with the AK. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HRider Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 I say run what you like. I ran my Heavy Metal rig in Pro at Rockcastle. It didn't work out as well as I wished (was handicapped more by me than equipment), but I had fun, and got style points for rocking steel and ripping covers off of shelves at the Cowboy town . Hurley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPQR476 Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 I say run what you like. I ran my Heavy Metal rig in Pro at Rockcastle. It didn't work out as well as I wished (was handicapped more by me than equipment), but I had fun, and got style points for rocking steel and ripping covers off of shelves at the Cowboy town . Hurley If I weren't running an AK, I'd probably be running my G3k..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Posted September 16, 2011 Share Posted September 16, 2011 What appeared to be a pretty skilled guy shot one iron sights last year at the Montana multi gun. He struggled with small or distant targets. I admired his ability to find super stable positions. That match is a ball by the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 I have a hard time with large outlays on firearms dedicated to competition and not really practical for other purposes. I'll probably never run a widebody sti, and even if I did run an AR, it would just be my 16" Rra mid length with a vortex 1-4x and a brake on it. I buy once, cry once on firearms all the time, but I may never get to a happy place with buying game guns, and I may indeed be denied a certain increment of success because of that. . Anyway, this is a rabbit hole off the original post, and my fault for ending up here. Anyway, thanks for the discussion gents, and maybe I'll see some of you at some of the matches. I'll be the guy with the AK. :-) Sorry about getting off topic. I would shoot my AK in a match for fun if I could get some in expensive non steel bullet ammo for it. The matches I shoot won't allow steel bullets or bi metal for obvious reasons. I remember going to the Larue match a few years back and seeing one shooter in a squad ahead of be do very well. Have fun. pat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SPQR476 Posted September 20, 2011 Share Posted September 20, 2011 The Hornady SST steel case in 7.62 is good ammo and no bi-metal,but a bit pricey...though for just match use it's comparable to other cartridges. 5.45 Hornady V-max is downright reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 (edited) Edited October 3, 2011 by Alaskapopo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 (edited) Shot my Ak in a match yeasterday. I designed the stages so I did not put any rifle steel in so I could use my AK. I found out american lead core ammo is $18.99 a box in my area. No thanks. Anyway had a great time. Only problem was with my open class shotgun my Saiga. The trigger doubled twice and it had to be pulled from the match. I have a call in to R&R to get it fixed. I also ordered a new Tapco trigger for the short term. Pat Edited October 3, 2011 by Alaskapopo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaskapopo Posted October 3, 2011 Share Posted October 3, 2011 (edited) Edited October 3, 2011 by Alaskapopo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CmbtEngr Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I recently shot in local match (Virginia) where one of the stages included firing a match-provided AK (ammo provided also). All the AK targets were paper and within 25-30 yards. It was a fun diversion for us AR-types, but I don't see an AK in my future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now