Rangertim Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 With the 2011 shooting season about to blow wide open I've started sending in my registrations for several of the major matches this Spring. When I was tryin to decide what time slots to shoot in and who to squad with I found myself asking a question: "I enjoy squadding and shooting with my friends I shoot with at local club matches, but would I be better served if I squadded with other good shooters in the same division as I'm shooting?" While I enjoy hanging out with the guys I shoot with at the local matches several times a month, they are almost all Limited and Open division shooters while I'm shooting Production. Do you think I would be more focused, mentall prepared, and just benefit more from shooting on a squad full of other good Production shooters instead? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 In terms of improving your game, you'd do well to try to squad with the best Production (or, possibly, L-10) shooters you can find. You may not have your best performances, right now, but you're in the position to learn a lot more from those shooters. You'll pick up on things like stage strategy, pace, etc. If the goal is to have your best possible personal performance in that match, the answer is really that it depends on you. Some folks get stressed out around better shooters, or try to shoot at the pace they see the better shooter going at, and they bomb big time in the match. Others get a feel for what performance looks like at the "next level" and are able to use that as motivation to shoot sharp in the current match. Some folks have a lot more fun squadded with friends, and people that they're comfortable being around, so that they can just get in their own zone and ignore everyone elses' match. You really have to decide on that on for yourself. For me, I try to always squad with the best shooters in my division that I can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davehorn Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 I've found for me, that I tend to shoot a little better when squadded with better shooters, regardless of division. I would think shooting production with a squad of limited and open shooters would make you really have to push your speed to feel like you are "keeping up", but then when you compare your scores to the other production guys, you are actually faster because you have been pacing yourself with the limited and open guys. No scientific eveidence or anything, just some observation from my limited experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 I don't really "care", but I do prefer to shoot with equal or better shooters. Think of it this way; you get to shoot with your buddies all the time, but if you squad with people you don't know, you might get to see things you haven't seen before. There's also the fact that some folks are there as much for the social aspect, and they may not be quite as serious as you are. R, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 shooting with better shooters is great...if you know how to use them. i like to ask more experienced shooters about stage planning, how to engage tricky targets things like that on the walkthrough. I like the added "pressure" of shooting with a good squad as well. they all shot teh stage well now its my turn and i dont want to have the worst finish of the group so i step my game up a bit. But thats where you have to be very careful. you have to know your limits and if you're not as fast as the other guy, dont try to be. It'll end with disaster. Use their knowledge in stage breakdowns and movement plans. Then shoot your own game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rangertim Posted February 3, 2011 Author Share Posted February 3, 2011 There is no doubt that the Open and Limited guys I shoot with are good, but I wonder if I'm missing out in terms of "learning" from the other good Production shooters (stage breakdown, etc.) And I enjoy shooting with better shooters. Early in my career I shot on the "Super Squad" at the 07 Ohio Sectional with Bob Vogel, Steve Moneypenny, and a few others, and not only did shooting with them push me to a level good enough to win C Class, but I beat 1st place B Class and was 1.5% points behind 1st place A Class!! Shooting with the best definately helps me shoot better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jman Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 I train with some of the best in the biz. Come match time I don't care much who I'm squadded with. I'll shoot like I trained anyhow. Been known to change squads that include a motor mouth or two. Don't care much for the continuous "jaw jackin" types come match time. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdm74 Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Sometimes makes me shoot worse trying to equal there speed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbean Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Ideally, I'd like to shoot with a squad primarily in my division, and primarily a class or two above me. Among other things, it's good to see how other shooters with similar guns approach a stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjb45 Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 At major matches I rarely shoot with the people from my home club. Now however, I am often squadded with friends from out-of-state at major matches. It has been pretty rare that I have not enjoyed shooting with new people. A couple years ago, I shot Nationals with the Top Woman's Open squad . Holy Moly! Really nice people but intense! I like the idea of shooting with new people. I like meeting new people and I like being out of my comfort zone. Sometimes when you shoot with your normal friends you lapse into a different mode of operation than with a new group of people, you are operating in your comfort zone. Seeklander had a phrase, "controlled chaos" - your best performance will probably come out during this type of shooting. IMO; that usually does not occur when shooting with your normal group of buddies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMartens Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 There is no doubt that the Open and Limited guys I shoot with are good, but I wonder if I'm missing out in terms of "learning" from the other good Production shooters (stage breakdown, etc.) And I enjoy shooting with better shooters. Early in my career I shot on the "Super Squad" at the 07 Ohio Sectional with Bob Vogel, Steve Moneypenny, and a few others, and not only did shooting with them push me to a level good enough to win C Class, but I beat 1st place B Class and was 1.5% points behind 1st place A Class!! Shooting with the best definately helps me shoot better. I believe you just answered your own question quite well. Squadding with better shooters will usually be in your best interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpops Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 (edited) There is no doubt that the Open and Limited guys I shoot with are good, but I wonder if I'm missing out in terms of "learning" from the other good Production shooters (stage breakdown, etc.) And I enjoy shooting with better shooters. Early in my career I shot on the "Super Squad" at the 07 Ohio Sectional with Bob Vogel, Steve Moneypenny, and a few others, and not only did shooting with them push me to a level good enough to win C Class, but I beat 1st place B Class and was 1.5% points behind 1st place A Class!! Shooting with the best definately helps me shoot better. I forgot to tell you..Todd "The Turtle" Sindelar is hanging the Open gun up this year and shooting Production. Jump on with us when we get his butt to a match. Better yet, I'll let you know when we have another session here at the house. Hes been at this game a long time and has a BUNCH of information to share. Plus, he's a great guy! You are in the same boat we were/are. We are going to improve..no matter what! Does it pay to leave your buddies once in awhile? I think yes, at times. Sometimes it pays to squad up with better shooters. I still think a solid training program trumps everything else though. When the match comes it boils down to the preparation. I try not to really watch anyone else anyway, at least while I am on a stage or on deck. I prefer to scout things the day before and get some ideas that way. Your shooting is awesome. Pick Todd's brain some. He's forgotten more than I will ever know. Edited February 3, 2011 by Bigpops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Z Sr Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 You can learn much by shooting with better shooters, but don't try to match speed with an "M" or "GM" if you are a "B" or lower, that's just asking for mikes. Learn how they "read" a stage and how they move through the course, best of luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jualdeaux Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 (edited) Lately, I have been going to larger matches with one of the guys i shoot locally with. he is already much better than I am so that is nice. But, we both like shooting with the best people we can find. In the end, it is the best of both worlds. I have one friend on the squad and I get to meet a bunch of new people. As for the OP, I do find that shooting with the best people I can find helps me during matches. I have to make sure that I don't try to shoot at their level. Edited February 3, 2011 by jualdeaux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlosa Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 So this year i spent allot of time shooting with guys that are much better than me. they also happened to be limited and open shooters, and i worked hard to keep up with them shooting either L10 or SS. right before the Western State Single Stack Classic (which was in my mind the big finish to my season) i spent sometime shooting with top ss shooters.. while i learned and insane amount, i realized at some point the wheels were coming of the cart because i was trying to compete directly with them, while trying to shoot at their level i was sometimes falling to shoot at my level (this wasn't to healthy for my self esteem ).. right before the big match i shot with a few people that were not as experienced as me so i could be free to shoot relaxed and build some confidence... at the WSSSC i squaded with friends and shooters that i knew weren't indirect competition with me.. i purposely stayed away from the shooters that I'm constantly comparing my self to at the local matches. This turned out to be a great strategy for me. i came in 27th out of 240+ came in 1st B class out 47 people, and score 77% of the match winners score (Nils Jonasson). this is what i realized works for me... when you are getting ready for a match months in advanced, shoot against people that are much better than you, the best if possible... push your self.. let the wheels come of the cart a little, take time in between to work on the things that are breaking when you push hard... one or two matches before the big match.. shoot with people you know you can beat.... build confidence, and find you tempo strive to shoot clean with no penalties... do the same at a major match... shoot with people that you are confident shooting with, stay away from the stress, don't pay attention to other shooters runs, let the cards fall where they may, shoot your game, and have fun. This particular strategy is what works with my personality, i get nervous when i shoot with hot shot GM's and Masters, it gets in my head... and i tend to push to hard and loose focus... as i continue to work on this i realize that i shoot best when I'm shooting with people that I don't feel i need to impress (this is a major weakness in my game). anyway you personality might be different, but i find i need to shoot with all types of people in order to keep my game (both physical and mental) in constant progression but definitely keep in mind that you will shoot your best when you're self esteem is high... so it's important to sometimes put your self in situation that will build you confidence. my 2 cents cheers, Los. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Harden up, Timmerman! You know you LOVE shooting with the schlubs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigpops Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Harden up, Timmerman! You know you LOVE shooting with the schlubs! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth Posted February 3, 2011 Share Posted February 3, 2011 Harden up, Timmerman! You know you LOVE shooting with the schlubs! Where else can you see a man go plop on flat, dry ground? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
West Texas Granny Posted March 6, 2011 Share Posted March 6, 2011 All I know is if you want to get better you have to go up against those better than you are. I just wonder if you open and limited guys can handle a revolver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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