robot Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 I’ve been having issues with light strikes for the past 4 matches with my revolver and ammo. I’ve talked to numerous experts on multiple forums, tried many ways to fix it, from increasing trigger weight, hand seating primers etc. None worked properly. Until one day, I shot a USPSA match at Paul Bunyan with brass that I’ve shot and reloaded 3 times after getting it from a friend. All 100 rounds shot perfectly, without one single light strike. The next 100 rounds were brass that I’ve not used before and there were two light strikes. I pulled the light strike bullet, deprimed it and lo and behold! This is what I saw : the primer pockets were crammed up with crud, not just black soot/carbon from normal wear, but white powder like substance. The brass that worked well, didn’t have this crud anymore because I’ve shot and reloaded them several times. This is how the primers looks like : The fix that solves all these problems, is to clean the primer pockets. *doh* I took a small screw driver and scraped all the white crud from all my brass. Just thought I'd share some pics for folks those who hasn't seen / encountered this problem before. So everytime you get "new" brass or buy them from someone else, deprime and check the primer pockets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solvability Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 I doubt the crud is the cause of light strikes if the primers were seated flush. I hope it was. Were these primers of a different type than the ones that worked. Federals are usually the most reliable for a revo with a lightened main spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 I respectfully have to disagree about the primer pockets and light strikes.......I have loaded 10s of thousands of .45acp with crush fit federal primers for lightened triggers, and god knows how many 38 specials as well, and I have never inspected the primer pocket on any case. I clean them in the tumblers, inspect, lube, load in the casefeeder, load them up, tumble them again, inspect, and then shoot. This goes for pretty much any case, period. If you are having light strikes, it is either from improperly seated primers, too light of a mainspring, a broken firing pin/spring if it is a hammer mounted firing pin, or the gun is out of time. Once you seat the primer into the case properly, it "crushes" the cap of the primer and the anvil together. When you have the light strikes, does the round go off the second time it gets hit with the firing pin? If it does, then the primers need to be seated deeper. With the lightened trigger jobs that companies like APEX (Randy Lee) and Carmonize (Mike Carmoney) provide you have to "crush" fit the primers to the point that you can barely see a "bump" in the middle of the seated primer, which is the primer anvil touching the cap. Using Federal primers is a must for this application. When you seat the primers loading for a lightened action, you must be able to feel a step down from the case head to the primer, and you need to see a little "bump" in the middle of the primer. I am heading off to work, and I don't have my camera either to take pics of the way the primers need to "look" for best results. I am sure that someone on the forum will be able to post a pic for you. I hope you get your gun and ammo figured out, it is very frustrating when it goes "click" instead of "Bang".......been there done that. If I can help in anyway please let me know. Good luck, DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregg K Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 I respectfully have to disagree about the primer pockets and light strikes.......I have loaded 10s of thousands of .45acp with crush fit federal primers for lightened triggers, and god knows how many 38 specials as well, and I have never inspected the primer pocket on any case. Same here. I never look at or clean a primer pocket for my revolvers. I shoot them until the split in the case is too big and then throw them away, no light hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 Robot- can you send pics of the primers in the rounds BEFORE they went off? Obviously not the ones you already pulled- but others from that batch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted January 16, 2011 Share Posted January 16, 2011 I agree fully with Doug C.'s response above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robot Posted January 17, 2011 Author Share Posted January 17, 2011 (edited) I have the Apex Firing pin, Federal primers that I've seated HARD with my Dillon 550B and then seated again with a K&M hand primer. Here are pics of the primers I've seated : I would appreciate if someone would post a macro picture of how properly seated federal primers look like. thanks! My gun is set at 7.5lbs, tightened and loctited down strain screw. I'm not saying that everyone will have the same problem, if you buy new brass, I'm sure you won't have the problem I had. but how would you explain that after cleaning the flash holes, I have NO problem for the past 200 rounds? if you look at the white crud, the consistency is of dried powder. My suspicion is that it is hindering the primers from seating properly. This happens inconsistently which explains why I'm having such a hard time troubleshooting it. The brass that I used all started with this white crud, and after a few matches, the ones I've shot and reloaded over and over again had no issues, because after a while, the white crud get's blown away or removed from reloading. Like I said in the post, I brought out a box of ammo that I reloaded only once (after I got them, still with the white crud), had 2 light strikes. Now that I've cleaned the primer pockets of this invasive white stuff, I'm sure I won't have to do this again. I guess this is a unique problem with my brass and definitely not the only thing that causes light strikes. if you guys are interested, I still have about 100rounds of various nickel brass that I haven't cleaned yet and that still have the white crud to try Edited January 17, 2011 by robot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forrest Halley Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 I had noticed that the nickel plated stuff was less reliable for me with the JM which is down around 7#. I have been sticking to brass ever since and cranking them in there on my dillon. At the rate I turn out ammo I just don't want to have to go back and reseat primers. The pictures you have up look pretty decent for seating the primers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 The Federals look pretty good in the top photo, but the 2nd photo shows brass colored primers that are rounded on the sides, which means it needs to be seated deeper. You are not going to have good luck with the winchester/cci/wolf/remington, in the lightened action guns. We have tried them all. The only thing that is 100% reliable in the lightened action guns is the Federals, and they need to be crush fitted if you are going lighter than 7lbs. We have just resigned ourselves to buy a sleeve of federal primers when we see them..... By all means, if you have one batch of brass that is giving you fits, then deprime and clean the primer pocket. Stuff happens,and if that takes care of the problem go for it. Look at Sinclair International for a primer tool that will clean it for you in one turn, less work than the screwdriver... I haven't seen the residue like that before. That is good information to add to the data banks to look at in the future. I hope you are able to get the Wheelgun set up for 100%! Good luck, DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 I agree that the rounded edges still visible on the primers indicate they are not being seated fully. They need to look completely flat. Also, notice how a couple of the primers in the second photo show sort of a half-moon indentation? It appears the rounds are not getting fully inserted into the hand-seating tool....or the half-moons are being caused by your press and you're not squeezing hard enough to really reseat them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
underlug Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 (edited) I have the Apex Firing pin, Federal primers that I've seated HARD with my Dillon 550B and then seated again with a K&M hand primer. Here are pics of the primers I've seated : I would appreciate if someone would post a macro picture of how properly seated federal primers look like. thanks! My gun is set at 7.5lbs, tightened and loctited down strain screw. I'm not saying that everyone will have the same problem, if you buy new brass, I'm sure you won't have the problem I had. but how would you explain that after cleaning the flash holes, I have NO problem for the past 200 rounds? if you look at the white crud, the consistency is of dried powder. My suspicion is that it is hindering the primers from seating properly. This happens inconsistently which explains why I'm having such a hard time troubleshooting it. The brass that I used all started with this white crud, and after a few matches, the ones I've shot and reloaded over and over again had no issues, because after a while, the white crud get's blown away or removed from reloading. Like I said in the post, I brought out a box of ammo that I reloaded only once (after I got them, still with the white crud), had 2 light strikes. Now that I've cleaned the primer pockets of this invasive white stuff, I'm sure I won't have to do this again. I guess this is a unique problem with my brass and definitely not the only thing that causes light strikes. if you guys are interested, I still have about 100rounds of various nickel brass that I haven't cleaned yet and that still have the white crud to try Noticed you use a mixture of brass. Any consistency between the light strikes and brand of brass? I remember having trouble many years ago with S&B before I decided to just go with one brand. I had some Remington that, after shooting it twice, you would lose the primers when you reloaded it. Probably a bad run Edited January 17, 2011 by underlug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Hello: Another thing is that the primer pockets of different brands of brass is different Some pockets are deeper,larger and have a different radius. I would stick to one brand/type of brass and see how that works for you. I was told to use RP brass for my 646 and Federal primers. That combo solved all my light strikes. I don't know what the magic brass is for 45 but I am going to use Winchester since I have lots of it and Federal primers. I have never had to clean primer pockets either. Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robot Posted January 17, 2011 Author Share Posted January 17, 2011 Thanks for all the tips guys! I really appreciate it. I've just recently sorted all my nickel brass and using R.P. brass now, that's the one I have most of. All the newly reloaded brass look like the ones in photo-1. I only have two types of primers at home, Federal and Wolf. Federal for revo and Wolf for 1911. @Mike yeah I know why, the cartridge spring was not set properly, so sometimes the brass comes out of the shellplate as I'm cranking the handle upwards to seat the primer. *doh* newbie mistake @DougC for pointing out the Sinclair flash hole cleaning tool. I'll take a look at it, but I suspect that I don't have to clean them anymore once I've removed that white crud. I have no idea where the white stuff came from, maybe from some cleaning fluid or soap that was left to dry for a few years. I got this brass from a friend in a trade. Definitely not a common problem, but reminds me to check the flash hole for any brass I get in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted January 18, 2011 Share Posted January 18, 2011 I have no idea where the white stuff came from, maybe from some cleaning fluid or soap that was left to dry for a few years. I got this brass from a friend in a trade. Definitely not a common problem, but reminds me to check the flash hole for any brass I get in the future. Just had a terrible thought.....that brass didn't come from Cliff, did it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Does it matter if you use Federal Small Pistol or Federal Match Small Pistol? Is one better than the other in a Carmonized action? Is the hand primer really necessary or will a 550B seat them enough? Not trying to get off topic but since we are talking about Federal primers and seating in light actions, thought this would be appropriate...Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forrest Halley Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Does it matter if you use Federal Small Pistol or Federal Match Small Pistol? Is one better than the other in a Carmonized action? Is the hand primer really necessary or will a 550B seat them enough? Not trying to get off topic but since we are talking about Federal primers and seating in light actions, thought this would be appropriate...Thanks It all depends on you. The seating is doable in the 550, but you have to remember to do a solid seating stroke each time and it will slow you down a bit. If you hand seat you have a more reliable end product due to the attention to detail given. I tend to run my strain screw to suit my reloading ability, not the other way around. I use small pistol, SP magnums, or match all depends what I am able to get. Seems to me the match may have a small edge on the others in sensitivity, but I am not at the level where I need that yet. Right now I am running small pistol magnums for the smaller charge in the higher volume case. Anybody see anything wrong here...please tell me and feel more than welcome to correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Round_Gun_Shooter Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 The only thing I could add to Doug's list is excessive end shake. Other than that I go back to lurking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gng4life Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Does it matter if you use Federal Small Pistol or Federal Match Small Pistol? Is one better than the other in a Carmonized action? Is the hand primer really necessary or will a 550B seat them enough? Not trying to get off topic but since we are talking about Federal primers and seating in light actions, thought this would be appropriate...Thanks It all depends on you. The seating is doable in the 550, but you have to remember to do a solid seating stroke each time and it will slow you down a bit. If you hand seat you have a more reliable end product due to the attention to detail given. I tend to run my strain screw to suit my reloading ability, not the other way around. I use small pistol, SP magnums, or match all depends what I am able to get. Seems to me the match may have a small edge on the others in sensitivity, but I am not at the level where I need that yet. Right now I am running small pistol magnums for the smaller charge in the higher volume case. Anybody see anything wrong here...please tell me and feel more than welcome to correct. Generally, I've heard that Magnum primers are a tad harder than their non-magnum counterparts. I might go with the Match primers, unless someone else has something to add about it. Thanks for the comment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckaroo45 Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 Just so I've got this straight, Doug refers to seating primers deep enough to see a "marking" in the center of the primer. Am I to understand the marks he's refering to are the marks on the primers in the upper photo? I had some Lee equipment which states NOT to run Federal primers in their machines. It's made me leery about Federals thru a machine instead of hand seating. Problem is my grip ain't what it used to be so I need to make this work. I use a Dillon SDB now and just ran several hundred rounds thru the press using the Federals. My 625 w/ 6.5 lb trigger made over 100 go bang yesterday but the primer didn't look like the top photo. Should I grit my teeth and go for making the mark? I don't know about you guys but my butt is starting to pucker. _________________________________________________________________________________________________ Shooting revolver is somewhat like dating a full figured, less than stunning woman -it's comfortable -it will almost never disappoint you -it's not finicky -you can feed it nearly anything -it doesn't care much about OAL -it's stout, reliable, and durable -you don't need to clean it much -you can dryfire it all the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom E Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 I use a Dillon SDB now and just ran several hundred rounds thru the press using the Federals. Should I grit my teeth and go for making the mark? I don't know about you guys but my butt is starting to pucker. I load on SDB's and even after much playing with the press I can't get the primers seated deep enough. I don't think a SDB will fully seat them but if anyone has suggestions I'm all ears. After going thru the press the primers get fully seated in a Lee hand primer with the tray cut off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forrest Halley Posted January 19, 2011 Share Posted January 19, 2011 OK new dillon reloader here....is making a mark a bad thing? I'm blissfully ignorant at this point and sometimes I make the mark. As far as I am concerned it's the mark of reliable ammo in all revos. Educate me please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lugnut Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 I've been told that Federal Match primers are the exact same manufacture of primers as the std Federals... just tighter QA. I don't know if I'm 100% in belief of that. I had an issue with light strikes that I think are behind me now. I seated my std Federals in my 38Sp cases. Pressed below flush. Still had light strikes. I hand pressed the primers flush- still had occasional issues. I have since switched to a batch of Federal Match primers... seated with my press but not as deep as I tried before- they have all been going off. Now that leads me to one or two conclusions- I either had a batch of hard regular Federal primers or indeed the Match primers light off easier. I'm thinking the regular batch had some hard primers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Pardon the brief reply, I am on my phone at Shot. Please do not use federal primers in the Lee equipment. With the salt shaker movement. .... lets say I know about 5 guys with scars on their faces. I have owned a sdb and a 650. The 650 Will seat the primers deep enough, but you have to bear down on it and go really slow. Good luck, DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted January 20, 2011 Share Posted January 20, 2011 Hello: I guess I will load on my RL 1050 instead of the SDB for revolver then with Federal primers. Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hovbuild Posted January 21, 2011 Share Posted January 21, 2011 I have a 625 with a 6#+ da. To get my fed primers real tight I use my 550b but crank the shell plate down hard , it can't be moved and prime one case at a time this with cleaning- unifying the pockets makes for all primers to be seated .008 low or lower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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