YamaLink Posted January 2, 2011 Share Posted January 2, 2011 Did my first Production season with a nicely set up M&P9L with Apex goodies, f/o sight and reloads that did their job. I own a CZ75b for plinking and am a recent 1911 owner ready for ESP, CDP and SSTK this year; the SA of the 1911 has spoiled me to the point I have no desire to shoot my striker fire. Part of it is feel and most of it is the fact I am so much more accurate and faster with a SA, understandably. I like shooting Production, and I've been thinking about getting a Custom Shop or similarly set up Shadow to use in Production. My main hesitation is the first DA pull, but from what I've read the trigger can be worked over so well that the DA shouldn't be an issue. Or will it - do you admit there is a huge learning curve and slight disadvantage (with all things being equal) even with a nicely worked on DA? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I did not find the DA pull to be a hinderance at all (I have one of Angus' competition trigger jobs.) In fact, dry firing with the double action pull helped my trigger control immensely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunshrink Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Two things - first of all there is only 1 DA shot and the rest are no problem. I shot XD tactical first season so my transition is much the same as yours. Found the SA trigger was a bigger problem with almost too light and a DQ as a result. But, like I say DA is just one shot, usually close in and not a big problem, but what I did was shoot several mags with just DA and get used to it. Now it is much more natural. An added benifit was getting a lot of practice with the decocking when I put it back into DA to take the shot. Love the gun - I like my XD, own 5 of them, is the gun I carry every day but for competition the CZ almost overnight improved my shooting in matches. Have fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
usmc1974 Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I shoot a Beretta 92 and the double action trigger pull is about a smooth 4.5-5 pounds the single is about 3.5 with no creep. I compared it to my friends P18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
470nitro Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I made this same transition the end of this year. Was shooting a M&P 9 Pro with a trigger job and switched to a custom Shadow from Angus after shooting a friends. Shot Limited with a 2011 most of this year with a few matches in Production. I have to say switching between the 2011 and the M&P was tougher than the switch from the 2011 to the Shadow. The smooth single action with the Shadow is more similar to me to my 2011 than the striker of the M&P. Like others have said, the only DA shot is the first and I engage targets the same as I do generally with my 2011, first target the closest/most open. I read somewhere that the key with learning to transition to a CZ was pulling completely through the DA shot (not trying to find a prep "position" before a final pull) and I found this to be absolutely true. Like others have said also, if you can get used to dry firing with the DA, it only makes your SA pull that much easier/better. Just be sure to either buy one from Angus or Matt Mink or someone who really knows how to set up the trigger as I've shot and dry fired a stock 75 and there is no comparison between the two. I take my hat off to shooters who know how to manage the stock trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChuckS Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Read this Fear Not, the Double Action Shot Might help Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeeZer Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Shooting Prod Div - DA pull has to be 5#+. Make sure your gun is legit for Prod. Div thou as czcustom shop has several choices and not all are legit (on prod list). Angus Hobdel or Matt Mink will def build you one heck of a gun!!! You can do just as well or even better (if you take time to do finest tuning) if you know what you are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ck1 Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 NO. A Shadow with a 13lb hammer-spring and competition hammer installed will have a DA pull between 5-6.5lbs and will be as smooth as a top-shelf revolver... combine that with the greater weight and better ergos and you may find that even in DA mode you can best your M&P accuracy-wise (I've owned a couple M&P's with all the Apex goodies and they're not even in the same league as a Shadow IMO). Besides, even if it was tough (which it's not), after that one and only DA shot, the SA is just a thing of beauty... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YamaLink Posted January 3, 2011 Author Share Posted January 3, 2011 I owned a 625JM for a while (never shot a match) and it had a very nice action job with reliable springs that always ignited my Federal primers. Okay, so the DA won't be an issue, good! Changing springs and polishing jobs are within my grasp. NO. A Shadow with a 13lb hammer-spring and competition hammer installed will have a DA pull between 5-6.5lbs and will be as smooth as a top-shelf revolver... combine that with the greater weight and better ergos and you may find that even in DA mode you can best your M&P accuracy-wise (I've owned a couple M&P's with all the Apex goodies and they're not even in the same league as a Shadow IMO). Besides, even if it was tough (which it's not), after that one and only DA shot, the SA is just a thing of beauty... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperman Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Shooting Prod Div - DA pull has to be 5#+. Make sure your gun is legit for Prod. Div thou as czcustom shop has several choices and not all are legit (on prod list). Angus Hobdel or Matt Mink will def build you one heck of a gun!!! You can do just as well or even better (if you take time to do finest tuning) if you know what you are doing. That rule applies if you are shooting IPSC. USPSA has no such rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningsquirrels Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Changing springs and polishing jobs are within my grasp. Then you will have no problem! Order up that CZ! As I always tell some people who consider the first DA shot so immensely critical... What sport are we shooting, a 40 yard, 1 shot Virginia Count stage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YamaLink Posted January 3, 2011 Author Share Posted January 3, 2011 I think my mind goes to the Sig 220 DA. Fantastic gun but my trigger pull weight has to be 12 pounds and 2 miles long on that sucker. Lots of good info the last 24 hours. Think I'm leaning toward a non-Custom Shop and doing the spring/polish/filing mods a few suggested. Changing springs and polishing jobs are within my grasp. Then you will have no problem! Order up that CZ! As I always tell some people who consider the first DA shot so immensely critical... What sport are we shooting, a 40 yard, 1 shot Virginia Count stage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burningsquirrels Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I think my mind goes to the Sig 220 DA. Fantastic gun but my trigger pull weight has to be 12 pounds and 2 miles long on that sucker. Lots of good info the last 24 hours. Think I'm leaning toward a non-Custom Shop and doing the spring/polish/filing mods a few suggested. the main difference with a custom shop/mink gun and a home gun is the reset length. polishing it up and tuning the springs is no problem. i rarely clean my gun - when it was really dirty i had a friend with a pull gauge and i think it was 7/3. i cleaned it and it got lighter in the pull. reset is short, but not as short compared to the ones that roll through the custom shop/mink. does the short reset really matter? not for me, but i suck lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ck1 Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I think my mind goes to the Sig 220 DA. Fantastic gun but my trigger pull weight has to be 12 pounds and 2 miles long on that sucker. Lots of good info the last 24 hours. Think I'm leaning toward a non-Custom Shop and doing the spring/polish/filing mods a few suggested. the main difference with a custom shop/mink gun and a home gun is the reset length. polishing it up and tuning the springs is no problem. i rarely clean my gun - when it was really dirty i had a friend with a pull gauge and i think it was 7/3. i cleaned it and it got lighter in the pull. reset is short, but not as short compared to the ones that roll through the custom shop/mink. does the short reset really matter? not for me, but i suck lol. If you mean you are considering a "Factory" Shadow vs. a "Custom Shop" Shadow than your reset distance and feel will/should end up the same when everything is finished. The main change you'll need is the competition hammer, as while a stock "Factory" Shadow's hammer is good and much better than an SP-01, it's not quite up to how good the competition hammer is (Angus' competition hammer is a must-have for any CZ owner IMHO, just worth every penny). Both the guy's at the custom shop's work as well as Matt Mink have fantastic reputations for a reason, and if you're at all squeamish about the prospect of tearing down your pistols than the extra dollars to have the pros handle it might just be worth it... That said, I'm an advocate of one learning how to tear down one's gun soup-to-nuts, and don't consider the CZ's a real difficult platform to work on, so if you're up to it it's worthwhile and not too difficult (yeah, there's a couple small springs that you won't want to lose and a few things that get easier with experience, maybe tearing-down inside of a big plastic bag for the first few times until you're comfortable isn't a bad idea, but all the info you'd ever need is out there and think you'll find most CZers are willing to help you if need be). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YamaLink Posted January 3, 2011 Author Share Posted January 3, 2011 (edited) That sounds like my plan. Now the search starts for a Shadow with adjustable rear sight and da/sa trigger. Something along the lines of http://cz-usa.com/products/view/CZ_75_SP01_Shadow/ and then swap out the grips. But I did send an email to Matt Mink. Many good options for a new Production gun. Thanks for all the input. If you mean you are considering a "Factory" Shadow vs. a "Custom Shop" Shadow than your reset distance and feel will/should end up the same when everything is finished. The main change you'll need is the competition hammer, as while a stock "Factory" Shadow's hammer is good and much better than an SP-01, it's not quite up to how good the competition hammer is (Angus' competition hammer is a must-have for any CZ owner IMHO, just worth every penny). Both the guy's at the custom shop's work as well as Matt Mink have fantastic reputations for a reason, and if you're at all squeamish about the prospect of tearing down your pistols than the extra dollars to have the pros handle it might just be worth it... That said, I'm an advocate of one learning how to tear down one's gun soup-to-nuts, and don't consider the CZ's a real difficult platform to work on, so if you're up to it it's worthwhile and not too difficult (yeah, there's a couple small springs that you won't want to lose and a few things that get easier with experience, maybe tearing-down inside of a big plastic bag for the first few times until you're comfortable isn't a bad idea, but all the info you'd ever need is out there and think you'll find most CZers are willing to help you if need be). Edited January 3, 2011 by YamaLink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanky Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 Shooting Prod Div - DA pull has to be 5#+. Make sure your gun is legit for Prod. Div thou as czcustom shop has several choices and not all are legit (on prod list). Angus Hobdel or Matt Mink will def build you one heck of a gun!!! You can do just as well or even better (if you take time to do finest tuning) if you know what you are doing. Not true for USPSA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CeeZer Posted January 3, 2011 Share Posted January 3, 2011 I never said USPSA Prod. Div. I shoot in USA and Canada (so far), Canada follows IPSC rule book and I don't feel like swapping springs or whatnot often. I tuned my Shadow to DA at 6# where SA went to 3#, and I don't want to go lower than 3# in SA, otherwise I don't 'feel' trigger as well. But that is very personal to each shooter. Thou, my CZ75B SA gun that I use in IDPA has a bit lighter trigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanky Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 Just wanted to clarify for someone who mightn't know you meant IPSC rules. That's how people get confused. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmg Posted January 4, 2011 Share Posted January 4, 2011 I went to the Shadow last spring from a glock and that was a huge change. Never shot DA before. I bought the gun from Angus and that was definitely the right thing to do. As far as the DA first shot, i have gotten to where I am prepping trigger as i coming onto target and soon as my eyes come back to front sight i break the shot. The rest is silky smooth SA shots afterwards. Great gun. You want be disappointed but do get the custom job from Angus or Matt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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