95gr JHPs in .38SC for Steel?

[G-ManBart]

I just got a sample of MG 95gr JHPs to play around with and they're a cute little pill! I was thinking of trying them in .38SC to come up with a light, reasonably fast, load for steel.

I'm not too worried about working the comp since makeup shots aren't the plan, and I've used plenty of light (120ish) bullets in Super for steel that were running around 1000fps, and it wasn't an issue. I've got lots of N320 on hand, so I'm going to try that first, but also have a few other (mostly slower) powders I can try...Solo 1K, Autocomp, HS-6, N350, 3N37, E3, Longshot, and other stuff I can't remember. Any suggestions?

I was thinking of giving 5gr of N320 a try since that's listed as a starting load with 115s (nearly 1200fps) and I've got 12lbs handy.

Also, if you've used 95gr bullets before, what OAL did you pick? There's so little bearing surface that seating them longer than 1.220" seems like they would be subject to setback...my guns will feed empty cases, so I'm not too worried about function, but if anybody has experience with this, I'm all ears. Thanks!

[Darrell]

I just got a sample of MG 95gr JHPs to play around with and they're a cute little pill! I was thinking of trying them in .38SC to come up with a light, reasonably fast, load for steel.

I'm not too worried about working the comp since makeup shots aren't the plan, and I've used plenty of light (120ish) bullets in Super for steel that were running around 1000fps, and it wasn't an issue. I've got lots of N320 on hand, so I'm going to try that first, but also have a few other (mostly slower) powders I can try...Solo 1K, Autocomp, HS-6, N350, 3N37, E3, Longshot, and other stuff I can't remember. Any suggestions?

I was thinking of giving 5gr of N320 a try since that's listed as a starting load with 115s (nearly 1200fps) and I've got 12lbs handy.

Also, if you've used 95gr bullets before, what OAL did you pick? There's so little bearing surface that seating them longer than 1.220" seems like they would be subject to setback...my guns will feed empty cases, so I'm not too worried about function, but if anybody has experience with this, I'm all ears. Thanks!

Here is some data to look at to start.

[G-ManBart]

Here is some data to look at to start.

Thanks...is that PM-9 in Super?

Edited December 28, 2010 by G-ManBart

[gm iprod]

I tried Zero 95gr JSP for a while for light loads for steel and for my wife to try the gun.

1.200" and 4.9gr N320 or TG, both gave 1130fps on average. 5.3gr gave 1260fps or thereabouts.

I also tried them at 1.18" as per Hodgdon manual for the 90gr Sierra. Backed the load off to 4.7gr and got the same velocity or so close it did not matter. At the lower speeds ES was higher, but accuracy was fine at 25Y. a little bigger than I am used to at 50Y but would work for speed I think. BAck up to 5.2gr and accuracy was better, ES tightened up a bit as well.

Anything around 1250fps seemed to be the best compromise.

[Neomet]

Why the fast powder Bart? How about a reduced charge using some of your beloved 105 to work the comp more? (I seem to remember fast vs slow powder being discussed somewhere but darned if I can find it.)

[gm iprod]

Steel is more like NRA Action Pistol, where the tendency is to use faster powders, they generate the required velocity with smaller charges of powder, which reduces recoil, and generally have smaller extreme spreads in velocities. Although they give off less gas to run a compensator, the benefit outweighs the likely disadvantage.

Slow burning powders downloaded to make less velocity are more likely to produce a poor result accuracy wise. N105 in particular is not happy to be backed off too far.

I think the best compromise is towards the faster end. Especially N320 and Titegroup, these two have a proven record in low power factort loads. There is also good results to be obtained from WST, 231, Bullseye and a few others at that end of the burn chart.

[Sean Gaines]

I have heard of people using the same powder charge that they use for major loads, and just putting a 95gr bullet on top of that same powder charge for steel, and it seems to work good for them. Might be the easiest to do, at least its worth a try.

[G-ManBart]

Why the fast powder Bart? How about a reduced charge using some of your beloved 105 to work the comp more? (I seem to remember fast vs slow powder being discussed somewhere but darned if I can find it.)

I'm not really worried how the comp is working for Steel Challenge loads. Years ago I used 120gr truncated cones with something like 5gr of Winchester's WSL (pretty fast), and it was like squirting a water pistol...almost no muzzle flip. So, I don't think there's any reason to use a slow powder just to work the comp when it should be only one shot per target anyway. I figure I'll start fast, and work slower as necessary. R,

[warpspeed]

I use the 90gr MG HPs in a 9x19 case. 4.6gr N330 turned out to be the magic number for my gun.

We tried 320, 330 & 350 and found the N330 to be the most accurate. In 38super, you may find the N320 to give better results.

With the 95s, I'd start with 5.0gr of N350 as you originally stated and work down. I would not worry about pf, just accuracy & reliability.

[Darrell]

Here is some data to look at to start.

Thanks...is that PM-9 in Super?

No sorry, 9mm

[98sr20ve]

but also have a few other (mostly slower) powders I can try...Solo 1K, Autocomp, HS-6, N350, 3N37, E3, Longshot, and other stuff I can't remember. Any suggestions?

I wouldn't exactly call Solo 1K slow. I would try n320 and the Solo 1k.

[G-ManBart]

but also have a few other (mostly slower) powders I can try...Solo 1K, Autocomp, HS-6, N350, 3N37, E3, Longshot, and other stuff I can't remember. Any suggestions?

I wouldn't exactly call Solo 1K slow. I would try n320 and the Solo 1k.

Oh, I wasn't saying Solo 1K was slow...that's why I added the "mostly slower" qualifier. If anything, Solo 1K is a touch faster than N320, but that seems to vary a bit from lot to lot. The Solo 1K I have now takes .2gr less than N320 to make the same PF in a 9mm. Come to think of it, that may not be a bad test. The reverse temperature sensitivity thing keeps me from really liking Solo 1K for 9 Minor, but a few PF wouldn't hurt anything on steel. R,

[Tom E]

The reverse temperature sensitivity thing keeps me from really liking Solo 1K for 9 Minor, but a few PF wouldn't hurt anything on steel. R,

I wondered about the reverse temperature sensitivity thing (Solo 1000) and chroned rds back to back, same day - shooting session) loaded in the same batch, at "on the dashboard" temps of 80+ and rds from a cooler out of my 0 deg freezer (they grew frost when pulled from the cooler) and found a 1% velocity difference. Colder rds being faster. Interstingly the "hot" rds had a lower SD.

[G-ManBart]

The reverse temperature sensitivity thing keeps me from really liking Solo 1K for 9 Minor, but a few PF wouldn't hurt anything on steel. R,

I wondered about the reverse temperature sensitivity thing (Solo 1000) and chroned rds back to back, same day - shooting session) loaded in the same batch, at "on the dashboard" temps of 80+ and rds from a cooler out of my 0 deg freezer (they grew frost when pulled from the cooler) and found a 1% velocity difference. Colder rds being faster. Interstingly the "hot" rds had a lower SD.

The last two times I chrono'd the identical load with Solo 1K were 18*F and 35*F. On the 18* day, it averaged 909fps (9 Minor) and on the 35* day it was 877fps.

[Tom E]

The reverse temperature sensitivity thing keeps me from really liking Solo 1K for 9 Minor, but a few PF wouldn't hurt anything on steel. R,

I wondered about the reverse temperature sensitivity thing (Solo 1000) and chroned rds back to back, same day - shooting session) loaded in the same batch, at "on the dashboard" temps of 80+ and rds from a cooler out of my 0 deg freezer (they grew frost when pulled from the cooler) and found a 1% velocity difference. Colder rds being faster. Interstingly the "hot" rds had a lower SD.

The last two times I chrono'd the identical load with Solo 1K were 18*F and 35*F. On the 18* day, it averaged 909fps (9 Minor) and on the 35* day it was 877fps.

That's why I shot them (hot and cold) during the same session, same set-up, within 20 min of each other to limit the variables.

[G-ManBart]

That's why I shot them (hot and cold) during the same session, same set-up, within 20 min of each other to limit the variables.

Limiting variables is good, but with mine, it wasn't the conditions, it was the powder. If ammo hasn't cold/hot soaked for a long time, I'm not sure it really duplicates actually differences in weather.

I did the testing on ten different days last winter. In addition to Solo 1K, I was also testing N320. For the two days I mentioned above the N320 loads were within 2fps of one another, one had an SD of 4.89, and the other 7.81 (20rd strings). Those results mirror testing on other days as well, so I'm pretty confident in those numbers. I also ran control runs of Atlanta Arms &Ammo 147gr JHP (Team Glock load/new cases). Over a 46*F spread, AA&A has averaged from a low of 907 to a high of 911fps....it's very temperature stable, and consistent. Two out of three loads were within a 4fps spread, and Solo 1K showed a spread of 32fps...that's pretty hard evidence.

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I load the 95 grain bullets 0.060" shorter than my standard bullets for 9mm Open major. That should give you a starting point for your 38SC. I use HS-6 powder as well. Very soft and accurate. It is a little dirty but it runs. Thanks, Eric

[G-ManBart]

Got a chance to run a couple of the MG 95gr JHPs with 5.0gr of N320 at 1.200" over the chronograph...937.5fps (Bedell shorty Open gun). That's not going to get it done...lol...it would barely move the slide back at all. Looks like I may try 6.0gr next...VV lists 5.9gr with a 115gr XTP as a max load, so I should be well under that. R,

Edited January 1, 2011 by G-ManBart

[38supPat]

I have heard of people using the same powder charge that they use for major loads, and just putting a 95gr bullet on top of that same powder charge for steel, and it seems to work good for them. Might be the easiest to do, at least its worth a try.

I went the long way around and ended up there. I had access to some 90-95 gr bullets and worked up some action pistol loads. I was aiming to see how fast I could push them and maintain accuracy. I was looking for a load that would have very little lead for the mover at Bianchi. I ended up with a load that was pretty much just a 90 gr XTP or Sierra over my major load.

This was a long time ago ('93-'94) and I was shooting it out of my 9X21 P9, but I think I had it up around 1600 or 1700fps.

[G-ManBart]

I have heard of people using the same powder charge that they use for major loads, and just putting a 95gr bullet on top of that same powder charge for steel, and it seems to work good for them. Might be the easiest to do, at least its worth a try.

I went the long way around and ended up there. I had access to some 90-95 gr bullets and worked up some action pistol loads. I was aiming to see how fast I could push them and maintain accuracy. I was looking for a load that would have very little lead for the mover at Bianchi. I ended up with a load that was pretty much just a 90 gr XTP or Sierra over my major load.

This was a long time ago ('93-'94) and I was shooting it out of my 9X21 P9, but I think I had it up around 1600 or 1700fps.

That would work well on the mover!

[hoserdude]

I just got a sample of MG 95gr JHPs to play around with and they're a cute little pill! I was thinking of trying them in .38SC to come up with a light, reasonably fast, load for steel.

I'm not too worried about working the comp since makeup shots aren't the plan, and I've used plenty of light (120ish) bullets in Super for steel that were running around 1000fps, and it wasn't an issue. I've got lots of N320 on hand, so I'm going to try that first, but also have a few other (mostly slower) powders I can try...Solo 1K, Autocomp, HS-6, N350, 3N37, E3, Longshot, and other stuff I can't remember. Any suggestions?

I was thinking of giving 5gr of N320 a try since that's listed as a starting load with 115s (nearly 1200fps) and I've got 12lbs handy.

Also, if you've used 95gr bullets before, what OAL did you pick? There's so little bearing surface that seating them longer than 1.220" seems like they would be subject to setback...my guns will feed empty cases, so I'm not too worried about function, but if anybody has experience with this, I'm all ears. Thanks!

I use the 95 gr montana gold hollow points over 5.3 gr. of universal clays, very accurate and flat

[Powder Finger]

I have heard of people using the same powder charge that they use for major loads, and just putting a 95gr bullet on top of that same powder charge for steel, and it seems to work good for them. Might be the easiest to do, at least its worth a try.

I went the long way around and ended up there. I had access to some 90-95 gr bullets and worked up some action pistol loads. I was aiming to see how fast I could push them and maintain accuracy. I was looking for a load that would have very little lead for the mover at Bianchi. I ended up with a load that was pretty much just a 90 gr XTP or Sierra over my major load.

This was a long time ago ('93-'94) and I was shooting it out of my 9X21 P9, but I think I had it up around 1600 or 1700fps.

That would work well on the mover!

That's fast, it might just slow down the earths rotation and make the mover not move.

[G-ManBart]

Brief update after the most recent test. I tried 5.0gr of N320 with MG 115gr JHPs at 1.235" just to see what would happen. They wouldn't cycle the gun, and averaged 1032fps out of my Bedell shorty at 28*F.

I also tried the 95gr MG JHPs with 6.0gr of N320 at 1.200" and they averaged 1264fps (also 28*F). It wasn't enough to cycle the slide, but they did partially extract. So, I'm going to try a 7 or 8lb spring and see what happens. It had more noise than recoil! R,

[Aircooled6racer]

Chris: I use a 8lb recoil spring in my open shorty for all loads in 9mm. Thanks, Eric

[gng4life]

Hey G-Man, if it helps any...In my 9mm Open, I am running a 7lb Wolf, with the 8 and 9 lb I could not get it to eject reliably. I run 5.2gr N320, 95 gr MG, 1.102, - this is my new steel load in my shorty Cox Custom. I just ran about 500 rounds of this through it and not a hiccup at all.