USPSA Limited Class gun

[gerritm]

I have a 9mm DA Limited Pro and have been shooting in the production class. I want to start shooting limited. What is the best Tanfo or EAA gun for this and what modifications would it need to be competitive? I was thinking of a SA Match in 9mm. What about mag capacity?

[Pro2AInPA]

Firstly, there is no limited class. There is a limited divsision, though.

Secondly, you want to be shooting a .40 S&W in limited. Shooting in limited and being scored minor will put you behind before the match even starts.

[Sudden Death]

Get in touch with Henning Wallgren he will guide you with all your questions, henningshootsguns.com

[gerritm]

Firstly, there is no limited class. There is a limited divsision, though.

Secondly, you want to be shooting a .40 S&W in limited. Shooting in limited and being scored minor will put you behind before the match even starts.

Sorry for the error on class. I fogot about the power factor. I was trying to keep the ammo cost down. I guess then it would be Limited 10 "division" if I stayed with 9mm. I wanted some feedback from you guys, so when I talk to Henning I had some ideas.

[Sudden Death]

Just go ahead and call Henning, he is a super nice guy and will explain all your options

[Pro2AInPA]

Firstly, there is no limited class. There is a limited divsision, though.

Secondly, you want to be shooting a .40 S&W in limited. Shooting in limited and being scored minor will put you behind before the match even starts.

Sorry for the error on class. I fogot about the power factor. I was trying to keep the ammo cost down. I guess then it would be Limited 10 "division" if I stayed with 9mm. I wanted some feedback from you guys, so when I talk to Henning I had some ideas.

Limited 10 still recognizes major and minor power factor. Production is the only one that doesn't.

You want to shoot .40 loaded to major PF, unless you shoot nothing but A's.

As far as ammo costs - you do reload right? There isn't a huge difference in cost when you load your own.

[RUSHARP2]

I might have some insights for you on gun selection, but Henning will not steer you wrong. I started with a Match in 40, and it is a great gun. Only issue I had was needing to load a little longer than factory for reliable feeding after 10 rounds. Once I hit the magic OAL, the gun runs like a dream. I love the gun.

Fast forward about 2 years... I wanted a magwell and a little more weight, as I wanted to be a little better shooter. A buddy had a good deal on his, so I added the Limited to my collection. I love it a little more than the Match, and the Match is now a backup gun.

They are both great shooters, and you couldn't go wrong with either. For me it was a situation about how much money I had when I bought the Match and what was available when I was ready to upgrade.

my .02

Matt

[LeoHallak]

Henning is out of the office till Wednesday of next week I think.

Leo

[NoSteel]

Limited 10 / Limited division both have major and minor power factors. You are ready to run either right now if you wanted with 9mm but you will be scored lower on anything but A- zone hits (Steel is equal of course). Not really a big deal if your just out to have fun initially and hone your skills. Depending on your classification shooting minor initially may be fine until you start getting more competitive and may actually help you get there. How, because shooting minor will help to force you to shoot A- zone shots as well as allow you to work out your reload strategy easier. In 9mm with a 140 mag you will have more rnds to work with in the mag than the .40 guys. So what I'm saying and did myself is there is no reason why you can't run Limited with the equip you have and work into another caliber pistol later. I personally ran a Tanfoglio Limited HC which is perfect for limited division and can be shot as is or modified as you see fit.

[Nealio]

Firstly, there is no limited class. There is a limited divsision, though.

Secondly, you want to be shooting a .40 S&W in limited. Shooting in limited and being scored minor will put you behind before the match even starts.

Well that's assuming you can't hit the A-zone. I tend to disagree that shooting minor is a disadvantage. You can get faster follow up shots and have a better chance of getting the a-zone when trying to go fast. Plus you can load more in your mags, so depending on the stage, you can get a big gain in speed for not having to reload.

Personally I think its a wash. You get more rounds and can get more accurate follow up shots, but you get scored less for non-alphas.

Edited December 17, 2010 by Nealio

[G34 CORDY]

I just got a Limited Hc in .40 and love it. Just started shooting limited division and the weight of the Limited HC coupled with 170 PF .40 ammo makes the recoil very nice. With 21 round mags you will only need to reload once or twice. You won't be dissapointed with the Limited

[Joe4d]

Firstly, there is no limited class. There is a limited divsision, though.

Secondly, you want to be shooting a .40 S&W in limited. Shooting in limited and being scored minor will put you behind before the match even starts.

Well that's assuming you can't hit the A-zone. I tend to disagree that shooting minor is a disadvantage. You can get faster follow up shots and have a better chance of getting the a-zone when trying to go fast. Plus you can load more in your mags, so depending on the stage, you can get a big gain in speed for not having to reload.

Personally I think its a wash. You get more rounds and can get more accurate follow up shots, but you get scored less for non-alphas.

and exactly how many minor shooters are in the winners circle of major matches ?

Minor has been a handicap since the 45 ten round magazine. The scoring system was designed to equalize the 13 round Browning Hipower mags and the 7 round 45 mags, as soon as some one figured out how to get 10 rounds of 45 in a gun you never again saw a minor gun placing at national or world shoots.

[G34 CORDY]

Shooting minor is a huge disadvantage!! If it wasnt more people would shoot minor. Even with minor PF it isn't that easy to shoot all a's fast. With a good proper grip shooting major isn't bad. Follow up shots can be just as fast with major PF ammo just watch some GM'S because they grip the pistol proper. If shooting minor and hitting all a's where easy everyone shooting production would be pros.

[Nealio]

Well that's what's nice about this forum; everyone gets their opinion.

I still think shooting minor is a wash and I will continue to shoot minor competitively against major. The whole pro shooter argument is ridiculous as those guys shoot every day, whereas most of us amateurs shoot once a week.

[Skydiver]

I shot L-10 Minor for a year with a CZ-75B and stayed in C class. I then shot L-10 Major for a year with a Witness Match and moved to B class. Since it's not the arrow, and this little Indian has actually stopped dry firing, the only conclusion I can come to is it must be the way the arrow is being scored when I hit the red, blue rings instead of the yellow.

It's that or it is the arrow and not the Indian. I love my Match, and now my Limited that I'll shooting this coming year.

Edited December 18, 2010 by Skydiver

[G-ManBart]

Well that's what's nice about this forum; everyone gets their opinion.

I still think shooting minor is a wash and I will continue to shoot minor competitively against major. The whole pro shooter argument is ridiculous as those guys shoot every day, whereas most of us amateurs shoot once a week.

Hang on a sec there...you've been a USPSA member for almost six months and you're already so sure of that? Minor simply can't compete against Major...the math never works out...even the absolute best can't make it work.

You're looking at it from the wrong perspective...in comparison to other shooters. That doesn't really mean anything. If you shot against your perfectly identical twin, on the same stage, one of you shooting Major, one Minor...who's going to win? I know I could kick my own @ss if the other "me" was shooting Minor...absolutely, no question about it. From looking at your match results, you're already getting enough hits that aren't Alphas that Major would save you a lot of points.

If that wasn't true, the best guys would shoot Limited Minor because, by your theory, they could just shoot Alphas faster, so why not have more rounds in the gun? They don't because it's a losing bet.

Dave S. had 53 B/C/D hits while winning Production at the 2010 Open Nationals...that's like 1/6th of all shots fired. First A (13th overall) Matthew H. had 78 B/C/D hits...roughly 1/4 of all shots fired. If that doesn't show that even really good shooters still shoot a lot of B/C/D hits when shooting Minor, I don't know what does.

If you want to shoot Limited Minor, knock yourself out, but suggesting that others shouldn't worry about Major scoring isn't really doing them a favor.

For the OP, an Elite Limited in .40 would be an excellent gun for Limited...they're a super nice gun. I've thought about getting one in 10mm and getting a .40 barrel so I could shoot both (love 10mm and have a good stash of ammo built up). R,

[G34 CORDY]

Well that's what's nice about this forum; everyone gets their opinion.

I still think shooting minor is a wash and I will continue to shoot minor competitively against major. The whole pro shooter argument is ridiculous as those guys shoot every day, whereas most of us amateurs shoot once a week.

You will never be competitive shooting minor period! And GM'S are not pro shooters and do not shoot everyday I know because I shoot with one once a week. Iam a amature and only shoot at most once a week maybe once every two weeks and Iam still able to handle major pf. Once you learn a PROPER grip you will be able to handle major pf just like the rest of the big boys. Please inform me who shoots limited minor and wins? And in this subject its not a opinion its a fact.

To the origianl post you will be very happy with the Elite Limited in .40. Shoot major and trust me you will thank all of us.

Edited December 18, 2010 by G34 CORDY

[Joe4d]

Well back to the original poster,,, being as how you seem to be a new shooter to USPSA, the best advice I can give is to tell you to buy nothing , shoot what you have, learn the game try other shooters guns. If you just buy something I guarantee in a year you'll be wishing you had bought something else.

You will be at your best in Limited with a gun that has the following characteristics,

20 rounds of major pf,, so basically .40 or 10mm, 10mm brass will get expensive.

5-6" inches of barrel

available different sights so you can use what is best for your eyes,

magazine funnel

decent trigger.

readily available parts so you can customize.

Off the top of my head, I would say STI, SVI, Para, Witness Elite limited, can be bought off the shelf and pretty much be good to go, Or you can go custom with a Caspian, Glock, XD or M&P, and have a competitive limited setup.

[whittlebeast]

I hope a EAA Match 9mm is OK for practicing at the farm. Is there any real technique differences between a 9 and a 40. I assume that this sport is like golf, the good guys will smoke you with anything in there hands but you are still better off starting with the fairly good stuff. If you really want to be competitive, they you have to buy equipment based on class structure.

I have raced autocross cars for 30 years so I understand buying equipment for the class.

Andy

[Nealio]

First of all, sorry I made the thread drift. I wasn't trying to start a big flame war, seriously..

So for what its worth, it seemed to me that the major/minor thing was putting more focus on your equipment than your shooting and technique. So I was trying to show that its the shooter not the pistol (or the PF). I agree with all the points everyone makes about points, non-alphas, etc etc. To me its like saying you need to have a $3500 Brazos STI to be competitive, since that's what all the top guys are using. Which would be nice, but I'll stick with my $1100 Tanfoglio.

Also I'm trying to separate the BS from the fact. Seems like you get people just repeating what other people said without putting any though to it. I've heard a lot of stuff that people say is "fact" that actually is not in the last 6 months. However G-ManBart made some good points beyond the usual "just shoot major because everyone else does" so I can see why everyone thinks minor is a huge disadvantage.

Once you learn a PROPER grip you will be able to handle major pf just like the rest of the big boys. Please inform me who shoots limited minor and wins? And in this subject its not a opinion its a fact.

I never said I couldn't handle major and my grip is fine. I shoot minor because my Limited gun is chambered in 9mm..

Peace,

- Nealio

[G34 CORDY]

Its understandable that you shoot minor because you have a 9mm, but if someone was to purchase a limited gun it would be wise to buy a .40 but if you already have a gun shoot it. You are right you dont need a brazos to compete thats why I also bought a Tanfo Limited because I dont have 3k for a gun.

[dansy]

Henning told me to call him on the 22 Dec

[photog]

I have a 9mm DA Limited Pro and have been shooting in the production class. I want to start shooting limited. What is the best Tanfo or EAA gun for this and what modifications would it need to be competitive? I was thinking of a SA Match in 9mm. What about mag capacity?

To answer this question:

Best EAA gun for limited division is the Elite Limited in .40S&W.

To be competitive you will need a good holster rig (CRSpeed is popular) and 3-4 of Hennings 141 mags. Do a little trigger work and shoot it tons, they work great.

I would suggest getting a whole new system and keep your Production intact for use in Production. Reloading for 40 is not much different than 9mm, but with the Limited you must fully resize the case.

The Limited is a cost effective way to be competitive in limited division.

[gerritm]

I have been shooting my 9mm Limited Pro in production in USPSA for about a year. Thanks for all the info. I tend to shoot accurately with many A zone shots, but I am slow mainly to keep them in the A zone. Typical, as I speed up I tend to throw a few more out of the A. So that is my thinking with a more dedicated gun with a larger capacity less reloads. I have talked to Henning in the past and will get ahold of him. The more I see the more going to a .40 and major makes sense. I really like the Tanfo's and cost is a factor. Sure I would love to go buy a 2K STI built limited gun, but I am not at that point in my shooting career. I do some reloading going to .40 will push me to do more reloading.

[G34 CORDY]

Practice your reloads and you will be fast enough for it not to hurt your time also reload on the move will save a ton of time. The guys that are winning are not getting all a hits but there time is good, it's a balance of good hits and fast time. Shooting minor with all a's hits and not a fast time will keep you in the back of the pack. You will get faster with the more experience and matches you attend. The Tanfo Elite Limited is a great platform for the money just buy one in .40.

Edited December 21, 2010 by G34 CORDY