Hammer follow?

[Sarge]

I generally do things bass akwards and buying a new gun is no different. I have ordered a new custom 2011 and the first time I ever shot one was this weekend. I shot two different ones as a matter of fact.

Both guns were perfectly functioning for their owners but with each gun I had a couple of malfunctions. On both guns I ended up with a dead trigger and had to rack a new round into the chamber. It usually occured on faster follow ups. I'm pretty sure it was operator error. But what was it? I'm guessing the hammer was following. Maybe I was shooting them like my Glock?

Thanks

I will ask the guys tomorrow night who let me shoot their guns but I thought I might as well see what the forum has to say. It will give me something to read at work tomorrow.

[ParaGunner]

So it was falling to half-cock? It's hard to believe that it happened to you only and not the owner to.

[G-ManBart]

So it was falling to half-cock? It's hard to believe that it happened to you only and not the owner to.

I've had it happen, and I'm still at a loss why it did.. A fellow forum member and I were trading guns back and forth. Both were Bedell Open guns, mine a shorty, his a full size. When I'd shot his, I got several hammer follows. He had none It was pretty weird, but it happened...no idea why. R,

[Action Pistolero]

Since you mentioned shooting a Glock, I would say that it is a reset issue. Next time start slower and be sure to let your finger leave the trigger and see what happens. It may be that the reset on the pistols that you are shooting is a little long. I'm not real familiar with Glocks but I would think that the reset on a 1911 is shorter. Finger position on the trigger may have something to do with it also. Just a few ideas.

I have had instances where I was shooting a rapid fire string and the gun would stop firing and not go off when I pulled the trigger. Then it dawned on me, let go of the trigger stupid. The gun went back to firing.

If the hammer was falling but failed to set off the round it could be the thumb safety causing the problem. If you were to push down the thumb safety while pulling on the trigger the sear will not release the hammer soon enough to get enough inertia to set off the primer. I never had this happen but witnessed a guy have it happen on numerous occasions just after getting his new pistol. Of course it was only on the first shot. Try depressing the thumb safety and then go for the trigger.

That'll give you something to think about at work tomorrow when your bored.

[ParaGunner]

So it was falling to half-cock? It's hard to believe that it happened to you only and not the owner to.

I've had it happen, and I'm still at a loss why it did.. A fellow forum member and I were trading guns back and forth. Both were Bedell Open guns, mine a shorty, his a full size. When I'd shot his, I got several hammer follows. He had none It was pretty weird, but it happened...no idea why. R,

Really strange. Could having a different shooter with different trigger manipulation and recoil control cause a hammer follow?

[PeterMor]

I generally do things bass akwards and buying a new gun is no different. I have ordered a new custom 2011 and the first time I ever shot one was this weekend. I shot two different ones as a matter of fact.

Both guns were perfectly functioning for their owners but with each gun I had a couple of malfunctions. On both guns I ended up with a dead trigger and had to rack a new round into the chamber. It usually occured on faster follow ups. I'm pretty sure it was operator error. But what was it? I'm guessing the hammer was following. Maybe I was shooting them like my Glock?

Thanks

I will ask the guys tomorrow night who let me shoot their guns but I thought I might as well see what the forum has to say. It will give me something to read at work tomorrow.

Are you sure the hammer was following? Was the brass from the previous round ejected before you had to rack the slide? it sounds like the gun was failing to go into battery, I had similar problems when I first moved from a Glock to a 2011, turns out I was limp wrisiting the gun. The solution for me was to firm up my grip.

[chirpy]

Actually, the way I read your post it sounds like you were limp wristing both guns! If you had to rack a fresh round into the chamber and you were ejecting a spent round the hammer probably wasn't following because you would already have a new round in the chamber and you would have ejected a live round. Maybe I am reading things wrong....clarify/correct me if I am.

FWIW

Richard

Edited November 29, 2010 by chirpy

[Sarge]

I should clarify. Racked out unfired rounds. No primer strike. The rounds were eventually reloaded and worked fine. The gun was cycling and in battery. Just had a dead stick a few times. Maybe I was not letting off on the trigger?

Edited November 29, 2010 by Sarge

[Chris Keen]

Just like a race-car driver would know if there was something amiss with their car ... I'm sure I would have known if something was wrong with my gun. I havent had any hammer follow issues for about 3 years, so I don't think that you did either. My best guess .... operator error. But that's only because you are new to the 1911 grip. I wasn't really paying attention to your grip, but I know I saw you at least once bump the safety on with your first shot.

When going from a Glock to a 2011 the first thing you need to change is your grip. Specifically, you need to learn to "ride the safety" with your strong-side thumb. You also need to learn to depress the grip safety (unless of course, your gunsmith deactivates that) with the web of your strong hand.

Don't worry, it'll come with time and practice.

PS Kevin, If you've got some factory .40 ammo and want to shoot my LTD gun tonite to get some more hands-on practice time, let me know & I'll bring it with me.

[Sarge]

My best guess .... operator error.

Mine too.

Thanks for the offer Chris. I might take you up on it later down the road.

[G-ManBart]

So it was falling to half-cock? It's hard to believe that it happened to you only and not the owner to.

I've had it happen, and I'm still at a loss why it did.. A fellow forum member and I were trading guns back and forth. Both were Bedell Open guns, mine a shorty, his a full size. When I'd shot his, I got several hammer follows. He had none It was pretty weird, but it happened...no idea why. R,

Really strange. Could having a different shooter with different trigger manipulation and recoil control cause a hammer follow?

Honestly, I've never been able to figure that one out. I wasn't doing anything unusual, and haven't had the same problem with any other 1911/2011 that I've ever tried (quite a few), so it's strange, to say the least. As I recall, it only happened when I tried pretty fast splits....maybe one of our resident expert gunsmiths might have a reason for how this could happen? R,

[lcs]

Just like a race-car driver would know if there was something amiss with their car ... I'm sure I would have known if something was wrong with my gun. I havent had any hammer follow issues for about 3 years, so I don't think that you did either. My best guess .... operator error. But that's only because you are new to the 1911 grip. I wasn't really paying attention to your grip, but I know I saw you at least once bump the safety on with your first shot.

When going from a Glock to a 2011 the first thing you need to change is your grip. Specifically, you need to learn to "ride the safety" with your strong-side thumb. You also need to learn to depress the grip safety (unless of course, your gunsmith deactivates that) with the web of your strong hand.

Don't worry, it'll come with time and practice.

PS Kevin, If you've got some factory .40 ammo and want to shoot my LTD gun tonite to get some more hands-on practice time, let me know & I'll bring it with me.

I agree with Chris as I was watching you also as you shot Chris's gun and mine. A 1911/2011 trigger is a world of difference from a glock or M&P.. I did see you "bump" the safety up on Chris's gun. My thumb safety is a lot harder to activate so I don't think you had that problem with my gun. In addition to the grip safety, you may have not let the trigger reset..

No hammer follow through on my gun either.

You will know when the gun malfunctions. BTW, you can shoot mine with factory ammo also tonight. Just let me know.

larry

[G-ManBart]

I agree with Chris as I was watching you also as you shot Chris's gun and mine. A 1911/2011 trigger is a world of difference from a glock or M&P.. I did see you "bump" the safety up on Chris's gun. My thumb safety is a lot harder to activate so I don't think you had that problem with my gun. In addition to the grip safety, you may have not let the trigger reset..

No hammer follow through on my gun either.

You will know when the gun malfunctions. BTW, you can shoot mine with factory ammo also tonight. Just let me know.

larry

That still may not make sense. Bumping the safety on won't cause the hammer to be in the down position with a live round in the chamber...you can't have the hammer down, and the safety on, and if the safety is on when the hammer is back, it's not going to move forward.

If you don't let the trigger reset, the hammer will stay cocked...especially since nobody is off the hammer before the slide is all the way back (only takes about .03-.04s)...that's the way it's supposed to work.

If the gun in question has a Koenig hammer, and the half-cock doesn't work properly (most don't seem to...i.e. put it on half-cock, and press the trigger, hammer moves), and the thumb safety was slightly engaged, just enough to slow the hammer, but not interfere with the slide, then it could have dropped all the way...normally the half-cock would catch that. R,

[lcs]

I agree with Chris as I was watching you also as you shot Chris's gun and mine. A 1911/2011 trigger is a world of difference from a glock or M&P.. I did see you "bump" the safety up on Chris's gun. My thumb safety is a lot harder to activate so I don't think you had that problem with my gun. In addition to the grip safety, you may have not let the trigger reset..

No hammer follow through on my gun either.

You will know when the gun malfunctions. BTW, you can shoot mine with factory ammo also tonight. Just let me know.

larry

That still may not make sense. Bumping the safety on won't cause the hammer to be in the down position with a live round in the chamber...you can't have the hammer down, and the safety on, and if the safety is on when the hammer is back, it's not going to move forward.

If you don't let the trigger reset, the hammer will stay cocked...especially since nobody is off the hammer before the slide is all the way back (only takes about .03-.04s)...that's the way it's supposed to work.

If the gun in question has a Koenig hammer, and the half-cock doesn't work properly (most don't seem to...i.e. put it on half-cock, and press the trigger, hammer moves), and the thumb safety was slightly engaged, just enough to slow the hammer, but not interfere with the slide, then it could have dropped all the way...normally the half-cock would catch that. R,

I agree, bumping the safety will NOT cause the hammer to be in the down position. Again I agree that if you do not reset the trigger correctly , the hammer will be cocked.

BOTH guns are Koenig hammers and I can assure you that both guns are working properly. Half cock works on both guns.

The problem the OP described never happened. He is knew to 2011 (by his own admission). For instance, my slide just got back from hardchroming and was a little tight. One of his problems was a round that did not allow the gun to go into full battery and he ejected the round ( not recognizing the real problem).

I can see where my previous post may not have made sense to you.

Edited November 29, 2010 by FullRace

[G-ManBart]

BOTH guns are Koenig hammers and I can assure you that both guns are working properly. Half cock works on both guns.

The problem the OP described never happened. He is knew to 2011 (by his own admission). For instance, my slide just got back from hardchroming and was a little tight. One of his problems was a round that did not allow the gun to go into full battery and he ejected the round ( not recognizing the real problem).

I can see where my previous post may not have made sense to you.

Ah, so it never really wound up with the slide forward and the hammer down on a loaded round...gotcha.

Seriuosly, if you put your gun on half-cock and press the trigger, the hammer doesn't lower? Thats a good thing, but I'd say that 98% of the guns I've looked at that have them, the hammer will lower from half-cock if the trigger is presses. I've even pointed it out to people who'd never checked...and it surprised them. Since the half-cock is so close to fully down, it would never set off the round. I recall Bob L. writing something on it a year or so ago...interesting stuff on the geometry. R,

Edit to add: I can see small waves of people opening their safes to check the half-cock on their guns now...lol

Edited November 29, 2010 by G-ManBart

[ParaGunner]

It's amazing that a pistols can go 1000s of rounds with no problems ,but then you let someone else shoot it and it chokes.

[BayouSlide]

As a recent switcher to the 1911/2011 platform I have run into a similar issue, which I have since resolved.

After over 50K rounds through my Glock 34, I am very used to the Glock trigger and it has taken a bit of retraining to get the reset working for me properly on both a STI Trojan in 9mm and a Edge-spec STI .40 Limited gun in fast splits. But I was also having a problem with the hammer falling to half cock during rapid fire and fast splits (once on the Trojan when it had a stock trigger) and a number of times on the .40 after trigger work. But the problem has disappeared with a firmer grip on the strong hand side, stronger than I was used to under fastest trigger manipulation on my 9mm Glock.

Bobby at Freedom Gunworks pointed out a number of threads here with other people who have had a similar problem, often with people who started out on Glocks. A theory is that the looser grip on the strong hand (in an attempt to avoid trigger freeze and hit faster splits) may allow a little "bounce" that may get the sear to occasionally slip off the trigger hooks of a light trigger. Theory seems to pan out in practice because the problem went away completely for me when I retrained myself to maintain a stronger right hand grip under these circumstances. YMMV.

Maybe the late Eddie Rhodes was right: 9mm does make you weak

Curtis

[Chris Keen]

BOTH guns are Koenig hammers and I can assure you that both guns are working properly. Half cock works on both guns.

The problem the OP described never happened. He is knew to 2011 (by his own admission).

I can also assure you that MY GUN did not have the problem the OP described. (I was late to the shooting party, and did not see the OP shoot Larry's gun. Just mine)

I personally believe Sarge just needs a little more hands time on with a 1911/2011. He (again, by his own admission) has never shot one until this weekend, so I think he just needs to get more familiar with them. A striker fired gun is different. It just takes time, and he will have all the time in the world once his new gun gets built. But he just wanted to test-drive a few first.

And so the questions begin!

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: He may be riding the trigger a little bumping the sear. If I do this right I can get full auto type splits or the hammer drops and does not go bang. I have only done this a couple of times and yes I shoot a Glock as well sometimes. I can't tell you why it does it but it has with a couple of different pistols but it has not happened in a while. Thanks, Eric

[calishootr]

ive loaned my guns to people who either shot different guns or not really at all and got pretty much the same thing...they would run with me behind em, and poorly or not at all with the other folks...2 people in particular i can recall didnt let off the trigger far enuff to let things reset, need to learn the quirks ofthe new gun and either adapt your shooting style to it, or the other way round...

[Sarge]

Like I said, I'm sure it was op error. I know there will be a learning curve involved. I'm positive it will work itself out.

Thanks for all the good reading material. Very educational.

[soaringf22]

when shooting glocks and xd's i get trigger reset. when shooting 1911's i pretty much slap the trigger dont know why i develops that style but it allows me to transition between the guns with ease

[Kyle O]

Not typically a necroposter, but I caught some hammer follow in action this weekend on video. Here is the clip.

I slowed it down, and zoomed in some. Here ya go.

[Ken Mays]

A common cause of hammer follow is trigger bounce. Too many people concentrate on minimizing pretravel in the trigger system, not realizing that the ignition system needs a certain amount of pretravel to provide clearance for the trigger moving back due to inertia. The lighter the trigger pull gets, the more important this becomes since the center leg of the sear spring is able to provide less tension against the trigger.

A gun with a borderline amount of pretravel can exhibit hammer follow depending on how it's gripped. The more it moves during recoil, the more likely it will happen.

Edited April 22, 2011 by Ken Mays

[Jadeslade]

Not typically a necroposter, but I caught some hammer follow in action this weekend on video. Here is the clip.

I slowed it down, and zoomed in some. Here ya go.

nice video. i like the way you look at the gun, like it has a brain-i do that all the time