Supporting devices in 3Gun

[MarkCO]

So what do you think?

[Jesse Tischauser]

It was a pleasure taking your poll Mark!

Edited November 24, 2010 by jtischauser

[assaulter]

That's a hard question to answer when there is no clear definition of "supporting device" other than monopod and bipod.

[Jesse Tischauser]

I was just doing a little shooting this afternoon both off my double cinched mags and off my bipod both with my 6x scope. Damn that bipod is rock solid and that 6X is clear. I shot my first ever 2" 5 shot group at 300. I went to the cinched mags and I couldn't get 4" groups. I think allowing more support would also allow us to use more precision targets and go longer distances which would be fun as well. The extra support would make the current difficult shot easier but MD's would come up with new difficult shots to chalenge our shooting.

The one fact that you can't deny is that everyone enjoys shooting more when they can hit their targets. Allowing more support just makes the matches more fun for the entry level shooters and shaves a few seconds off the top shooters times.

Edited November 25, 2010 by jtischauser

[ken hebert]

I shot my first ever 2" 5 shot group at 300. I think allowing more support would also allow us to use more precision targets and go longer distances which would be fun as well.

now go do that with your limited rifle on the clock. we've already been in long discussions about target size in this game, and 4moa is sort of the concensus now. fair to irons as well as the entry level shooter.

back on topic: shooters dont NEED supporting devices in other divisions than open, and i'm not sure if saying its a "need" there is correct either. keep the divisions like they are, its obviously been working well up tot this point. its not like tac op is suffering by not having bipods, right?

[Jesse Tischauser]

I shot my first ever 2" 5 shot group at 300. I think allowing more support would also allow us to use more precision targets and go longer distances which would be fun as well.

now go do that with your limited rifle on the clock.

I was just doing a little shooting this afternoon both off my double cinched mags and off my bipod both with my 6x scope. Damn that bipod is rock solid and that 6X is clear. I shot my first ever 2" 5 shot group at 300. I went to the cinched mags and I couldn't get 4" groups.

I already said I couldn't. You gotta use the entire quote Ken.

Screw TI its a dead division anyways unless the red dot thing takes off.

The last rifle local match we shot Mike Pinto shot his TI rifle within 2 seconds of my open rifle on the long range. Heck he proabably beat me. Those TI guys don't need bigger targets its too easy for them as it is.

Us below average shooters shoot TO because its hard for us to see. We need more support too! We just want to have fun like you top shooters are having when your hitting everything.

Edited November 25, 2010 by jtischauser

[smokshwn]

I shot my first ever 2" 5 shot group at 300. I think allowing more support would also allow us to use more precision targets and go longer distances which would be fun as well.

now go do that with your limited rifle on the clock.

I was just doing a little shooting this afternoon both off my double cinched mags and off my bipod both with my 6x scope. Damn that bipod is rock solid and that 6X is clear. I shot my first ever 2" 5 shot group at 300. I went to the cinched mags and I couldn't get 4" groups.

Us below average shooters shoot TO because its hard for us to see. We need more support too! We just want to have fun like you top shooters are having when your hitting everything.

It's called PRACTICE!

Jesse, no disrespect intended, I just wanted to jump on this statement before anyone else did

[Jesse Tischauser]

I shot my first ever 2" 5 shot group at 300. I think allowing more support would also allow us to use more precision targets and go longer distances which would be fun as well.

now go do that with your limited rifle on the clock.

I was just doing a little shooting this afternoon both off my double cinched mags and off my bipod both with my 6x scope. Damn that bipod is rock solid and that 6X is clear. I shot my first ever 2" 5 shot group at 300. I went to the cinched mags and I couldn't get 4" groups.

Us below average shooters shoot TO because its hard for us to see. We need more support too! We just want to have fun like you top shooters are having when your hitting everything.

It's called PRACTICE!

Jesse, no disrespect intended, I just wanted to jump on this statement before anyone else did

Practice? F that! We want to buy guns and gear that make us fast and then use cheap ammo to win matches. I practice typing on forums and that's it.

[Religious Shooter]

With all due repect, this poll sucks.

[M ammo]

I like the idea of a support, of some kind, and as innovation goes, bring it on,, as we figure it out,, we will come up with something really cool I’m sure,, lite,, fast and sable,

To many rules,, stifle innovation.

Most people shoot Tac Optic if you open it up,, people will start making and inventing.

The game is about getting bullets to the target the fastest no matter what,, the Man still needs to shoot the gun so you will never louse that, element

Oh YA ,,, Jesse,,, I wish I was Slow like you!!

[el pres]

Another 3gun poll ?? I say #3, like its always been, quit changing things around.

Now what is Trapr going to say about this poll ??

Edited November 25, 2010 by el pres

[ken hebert]

I already said I couldn't. You gotta use the entire quote Ken.

nooo, I used the part I did on purpose. and I didnt say what i really wanted to on the subject of the supporting devices in all divisions, but thankfully Craig did.

IMO, bipods are a crutch for distance shooting. plenty of shooters are able to hit the same targets without them in the lower divisions as the competitors in open who are using them. Keep them in open, and keep mono podding in all others. (maybe "crutch" isn't the right word, but i'm fighting a headache, so cut me some slack tonight)

if you analyze the mechanics of prone shooting with a bipod vs. mono podding, its damn close. with the bipod you have the front of the weapon supported and both elbows planted. 3 points of contact. with mono podding you have the middle portion of the weapon supported with both elbows planted. 3 points of contact. true, with a bipod you eliminate some of the side to side wobble of the mono, advantage to bipod. but with mono podding off the middle of the weapon you are able to transition to the next target more smoothly. advantage to mono podding. Of course, these advantages are either enhanced or mitigated by each individual shooters ability, which is directly related to, say it with me, PRACTICE. (thank you Craig)

[GorillaTactical]

Hypothetical Question:

As the rules currently stand, if I drop prone with a vertical grip, and the grip hits the ground as I'm shooting, did I just get bumped to open?

[smokshwn]

Hypothetical Question:

As the rules currently stand, if I drop prone with a vertical grip, and the grip hits the ground as I'm shooting, did I just get bumped to open?

At some matches, yes.

[EkuJustice]

I would say go for it but the bipod, k9 etc has to start and stay on the rifle in te same place throughout the match. That would make it less deirable

[AlamoShooter]

I want to know why the 'over 55' And who voted for that option.

[MarkCO]

I want to know why the 'over 55' And who voted for that option.

Some of the Rio guys keep asking for "old fart" tees @ RM3G, basically start closer, so what the heck. No idea who voted for it though.

[GorillaTactical]

Hypothetical Question:

As the rules currently stand, if I drop prone with a vertical grip, and the grip hits the ground as I'm shooting, did I just get bumped to open?

At some matches, yes.

Ok thought so, I was just confussed for a moment because I read this post:

Another 3gun poll ?? I say #3, like its always been, quit changing things around.

The way we currently have it is not option #3...

[RiggerJJ]

Mark,

You left off this option;

"bipods for open, and iron ONLY shooters. IE; reddot OR bipod" and no switching.

jj

[J.Schmitt]

Mark,

You left off this option;

"bipods for open, and iron ONLY shooters. IE; reddot OR bipod" and no switching.

jj

jj,

Now that line has got me thinking.

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone.

jay

[el pres]

The way we currently have it is not option #3...

Edited ...

Happy Thanksgiving !!

Edited November 25, 2010 by el pres

[Dave Campbell]

The options are fine as there are .

We need fewer options and more shooting.

Open is clear, Tactical is clear, WTF to you want ??

A class for everyone ?? So we all are all winners, I don't think so .

This is not a feel good thing, that we do !!

The best win, the rest lose!

Get over it , Practise , get better or be happy with the results !!

If the equipment matters, thats your answer, change classes.

Get better equipment , Like that will help Ha , Ha , Ha .

Dave

[Jesse Tischauser]

We want new shooters to bring their ATAS rifles to shoot not be scared like most are. Too many restrictions and divisions scare people off.

Optics or lack thereof should be the only difference, period.

The average Joe has a rifle straight out of a magpul video not a competition rifle. Get rid of the limits and lets roll.

Edited November 26, 2010 by jtischauser

[GorillaTactical]

We want new shooters to bring their ATAS rifles to shoot not be scared like most are. Too many restrictions and divisions scare people off.

Optics or lack thereof should be the only difference, period.

The average Joe has a rifle straight out of a magpul video not a competition rifle. Get rid of the limits and lets roll.

I think when we reference the VG thing your right....9/10 new shooters have some sort of grip on their rifle just like the magpul guys. Basically when they show up at a match and are told that they have to shoot open if their VG hits a surface when shooting, it's a big turnoff....bipods I think are still a little different

[Jesse Tischauser]

A bipod is definately more of a purpose built support device but all of the devices we are discussing provide support. I just don't see how you can draw a line between one supporting device and another. Either everything goes or everything stays in my opinion. It seems like everyone wants to disallow anything that is proven to truly help support the rifle. I think the discussion should have been "Does the K9 provide enough of a competitive advantage to disallow it in Tactical division". If the K9 works in providing support like a bipod or cinched mags it will be out.