CNBC Investigates the Remington 700

[MarkCO]

Didn't Dateline NBC fabricate some exploding GM trucks in the early 1990's?

Dateline embellished for sure. They rigged the testing to get the results they wanted. That however does not invalidate a theory that something was wrong. Fabricated...probably not.

[Corey]

people arent realizing its only an issue on pre '82 rifles. there is a ton of "panic" about triggers not being safe and a lot of people are wanting replacement. sales are going to be rising for awhile.

[jaredr]

and when is CNBC releasing its stunning expose of the design flaws in the Ford pinto?

[Corey]

and when is CNBC releasing its stunning expose of the design flaws in the Ford pinto?

I think I saw somewhere that they had a 2-part episode planned for shortly after Thanksgiving. Saw it on tv and read it online too, so pretty sure Ill need a DVR by then

[sperman]

[mpeltier]

i cant tell you one thing for sure...aftermarket trigger sales are going to skyrocket in the near future!

Funny you mention this, as the day after the story i recieved an email from Brownells. The advertisement was mostly for Rem 700 triggers and accessories. Coincedence????

I have had several pre 1982 700's and never had an AD with any. Jeff Coopers first line of rule #3 is most revelant, as the best safety is the one between the shooters ears, unfortunately there are those who do not use that one. I also remember learning/reading that mechanical safetys are not infallable and to never rely on them solely for safety.

"This is my safety, sir"......... (holding trigger finger in the air)

[smokshwn]

Wow, digging deep they are. There were several failure analysis performed on this, and published, in the 1980s and early 1990. In fact in the December 1998 NAFE Journal, there was an article which included this topic. Based on my records and research, since Remington changed the safety in 1982, there have only been a few cases of alleged "inadvertant discharge" on 700s. Of the last five alleged "inadvertant discharge" cases I have worked on professionally, one was a hangfire and the other four, the operator pressed the trigger and the firearm operated as intended.

Take your facts and go home......Speaking of objective evidence only proves that you are a plant for the EVIL CORPORATION (remington) who has maniacally foistered an inferior and deadly product on me with the sole intention of causing me harm

Lisa C

To dispute all those letters, you can go into any one of thousands of indoor ranges and look up.....all those holes you will see in the baffles were caused by idiots who could not keep their fingers off the trigger. I would bet several of the culprits would adamantly blame the inanimate object before taking the responsibility that they did not properly use the weapon as intended.

[o313]

Amen brother!

Wow, digging deep they are. There were several failure analysis performed on this, and published, in the 1980s and early 1990. In fact in the December 1998 NAFE Journal, there was an article which included this topic. Based on my records and research, since Remington changed the safety in 1982, there have only been a few cases of alleged "inadvertant discharge" on 700s. Of the last five alleged "inadvertant discharge" cases I have worked on professionally, one was a hangfire and the other four, the operator pressed the trigger and the firearm operated as intended.

Take your facts and go home......Speaking of objective evidence only proves that you are a plant for the EVIL CORPORATION (remington) who has maniacally foistered an inferior and deadly product on me with the sole intention of causing me harm

Lisa C

To dispute all those letters, you can go into any one of thousands of indoor ranges and look up.....all those holes you will see in the baffles were caused by idiots who could not keep their fingers off the trigger. I would bet several of the culprits would adamantly blame the inanimate object before taking the responsibility that they did not properly use the weapon as intended.

[Lisa C]

twodownzero:

Thanks for your input and insight.

Mig:

I'm watching the CNBC show right now and am wondering how to retire my 700. I don't want to sell it because I don't want anyone else to be at risk. I loved my rifle until watching this. I know too many people who've had other ND/AD's resulting in harming someone. Handling a rifle with known problems isn't worth taking to the range. Thanks a lot for posting this.

If this is a real concern to you, look into having a gunsmith install a Timney or other aftermarket trigger system. With that said I own and have owned several M700's and would never distrust them based on this report.

I had a change of heart. I love my 700 and won't retire it. It was my first rifle.

[Lisa C]

twodownzero:

Thanks for your input and insight.

[Lisa C]

I had a change of heart. I love my 700 and won't retire it. It was my first rifle.

[Lisa C]

twodownzero:

Thanks for your input and insight.

[Merlin Orr]

Strange happenings with posts......? The Forums is looking like the post office on long deliveries....

[JKSNIPER]

Coming into this late but here goes:

" A safety is a mechanical device. ALL mechanical devices are subject to what? Failure. ALL safeties on ALL firearms , not just those made by Remington, are mechanical devices designed by human beings and are subject to failure whether it is through improper adjustment, improper maintenance, lack of maintenance, or abuse."

A great gunsmith I know said this about the entire mess:"I have NEVER seen, in my 35+ years of gunsmithing almost exclusively Remington rifles, a rifle come into the shop that was able to be fired without touching the trigger that did not suffer from one of the previously mentioned conditions. Usually a "bubba the gun smith job" and no one can seem to remember who did it."

Remington triggers (old style not X-mark pro) have a proprietary sealant on them applied at the factory. If you get in there and mess with the trigger and then have something go wrong and the rifle gets to Remington the FIRST thing they do is apply a re-agent to the trigger to check for the sealant. If it has been messed with it will not change color as it should and they will know that an unauthorized person was playing around with the trigger.

All it takes is a short course from Remington and you can become a certified armorer for the 700 rifle and then can mess around in there to your hearts content.

Also there is no need to mess around in there. The factory will set your trigger for you to a weight of 4.5 pounds....which is the lowest setting they will set it to.

Any adult shooter should be able to control a rifle with a 4.5 pound trigger and if they can't then they need more trigger time.

I spoke personally with multiple Remington representatives and they cannot comment publicly due to lawsuits pending etc but in these cases everyone seems to want to talk about the rifles in question were not sent directly to Remington to see what could have been the cause of these incidents and by the time they get to examine them the sealant is long gone.

I personally know a guy who had such stuff happen to him and we discussed it and I found out that he had adjusted his trigger himself and adjusted it OUT OF SPECIFICATION set by Remington.

And he ( at the time) was NOT a certified Remington armorer.

When I questioned the wisdom of doing such a thing and blaming Remington for the subsequent A.D. he said "No ones going to tell me I can't adjust my own rifles." and "If they didn't want people messing in there then they shouldn't have made it so easy to do."

I said "Oh so if you put gasoline into your diesel powered car then its the fault of the car manufacturer because he made it so easy to do?"

My gunsmith buddy told me also that when we spoke about this issue last he had in his shop 4 rifles from another manufacturer ( I shall not name here) that were received from the factory by an LE agency with 2 of them able to fire by loading the rifle and taking off the safety.

What I take from this as a lesson is ANY and ALL mechanical devices can fail at any given time.

1. Do not rely on the mechanical device to keep you safe. All firearms safety rules still apply.

2. WHen loading ANY bolt rifle it is advisable to load the rifle fully closing the bolt to verify that the round will chamber.

3. Lift the bolt handle and pull it slightly to the rear taking the round out of battery. The rifle will not fire in this condition.

4. When you are ready to fire it takes less than a second to push forward the bolt and lower the handle making the weapon capable of firing. With training it takes less time than people realize. I've seen guys who practice it a lot do it so smooth that others were unaware they were in what is referred to as "Bolt Overwatch" condition.

5. NEVER allow anyone not a certified armorer to make adjustments to your rifles trigger or other mechanisms.

6. NEVER adjust your weapon outside of manufacturers specifications for that particular weapons system.

7. Have your rifle regularly maintained and inspected by a certified armorer. If you suspect a problem take it out of service and get it to the factory as soon as possible.

8. Regularly clean and lubricate your rifle according to the manufacturer's instructions. Use only approved lubricants when lubricating the weapon and only use approved cleaning solvents. ( One such A.D. was caused by the excessive use of one of those foaming cleaners getting into the trigger and gumming up the works.)

[Chills1994]

NBC on those danged GM pickup trucks with their exploding tanks*

* when you place incedinary devices under the tank prior to impact and...

* when you purposely put the wrong, loose fitting gas cap on the fuel filler nozzle.

you can read more here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dateline_NBC

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_C/K#Sidesaddle_fuel_tank_controversy

"Well... that's newspapers for you, ma'am. You could fill volumes with what you don't read in them."

[Powder Finger]

info

http://www.benchrest.com/showthread.php?85779-Remington700-accidential-discharges&highlight=remington

also

http://www.benchrest.com/showthread.php?85899-Mike-Walker&highlight=remington

[Jaxshooter]

I have my first centerfire rifle that was a birthday gift in 1973. It is a Remington 700 chambered in 270. I have never had a problem with any trigger in any of the numerous 700s I have owned over the years. I currently own 4 other 700s in addition to the 1973 model. I do not intend to modify or replace any of the triggers nor will I retire any of the rifles.

[JKSNIPER]

I advise anyone who gets a rifle second hand to do this upon purchase and also for anyone that has a rifle they should do this at minimum once a year.

Get a trigger pull gauge. They don't cost a heck of a lot ( I think mine cost less than $50 brand new) and check the trigger pull WITH AN UNLOADED RIFLE at least for 5 pulls of the trigger.

Record the results in your book for that rifle. Don't have a book? Go to creed moor sports and buy one for each rifle.

If any of the pulls are below 4.5 pounds I would seriously consider taking it to a certified gunsmith or contacting Remington directly and ask them about sending it to them to be checked out prior to using it hunting or at the range.

Also if you suddenly notice a difference in the trigger pull whether it is an increase or decrease it can indicate a possible problem with the rifle that , if you cut it off at the pass, might save you some $ and grief.

Another thing....Theres guys out there who will clean their pistols and shotguns religiously and for some reason seem to think rifles get cleaned by the F.M. method.

I knew one fella who NEVER cleaned his rifle for about 5-6 years despite it being at the range a minimum of 8 times or so a year and being fired for about 100-150 rounds at each session.

He justified his way of thinking by his accuracy which had not significantly suffered but when I compared saved targets from his second year to his last year there WAS a distinct drop off in accuracy.

Now I saw photos of one of the Rem rifles being blamed for the death of an individual and the trigger area looked like someone had soaked it in deer blood and then rolled it in deer hair.

It was so fudged up I remember being amazed that it could function at all.

Nothing wrong with old rifles.....if anyone has a pre-64 Winchester Model 70 I might be able to find a home for it.