Chris iliff Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 As I understand it, IPSC was delivered by the U.S. to the rest of the world. While I will concede that a match based on foot speed is not as fun as it use to be, I see a good mix at the matches I attend. For the record, I absolutely hate change. Especially any "change" for a political reason. That kind of change is a slippery slope. Participate for a couple years in USPSA and then revisit this thread, it'll still be here. I'd be really interested in your informed comments then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Anderson Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 I spent a fair amount of time with Eric and his dad before that match. I took a class from him during the days before that event. He didn't seem to be missing any time in the bathroom. But then I guess it's easy to spout revisionist history when you're not actually there. As far as the US winning a Production World Shoot, I guess we're only including the last two world shoots. I'm pretty sure the rest were won by the US. (Armando Valdes? and Dave Sevigny). If you actually have a friend...here at the Nationals or otherwise. Please start a fund to buy him a tape measure. I think there are only about 10 targets in the whole match that would be considered "hoser" targets. Everything else is either 10+ yards, half covered with a no-shoot or hard cover or moving, or all of the above. I'm sure I haven't shot as much IPSC as you, but I have shot a World Shoot. While there were a couple stages there much more impressive than anything here, the majority looked very similar, just not shot on Classic targets. I've shot probably 15-20 US Nationals and this ranks right at the top as far as difficulty. Yeah it would have been nice to have a 32 round course, but it really doesn't prove anything. Making an Open shooter do 3 reloads in a match...whoooo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cheely Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 The OP has a point. US stages often do not require the level of accuracy that international matches do. I believe there is a mindset in the US that we need to keep things on the wide open / fun side in order to keep shooters coming back to matches. Too often I see a match that requires funny body positions and leaning around walls to make the shots tough. It's like we're afraid of putting a headshot out at 25 yards because most guys won't make it. Well too damn bad, learn to shoot the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Eric has proven he is the best Open shooter in the world. That doesn't make the American shooters soft. In fact, I think that the American teams usually win the Team medals at the World Shoots. (and the Philippines often is second) The last WS, KC and Max finished at 94%+ In fact, the Europeans only have a couple of others in the top 20 in Open, IIRC? Saul shoots in the USA (and Europe) quite often. I'd suggest using his placement as an objective barometer. Eric is a force in and of himself. Yeah. At the last World Shoot I beat somebody from every other country in the world´s Open team except the US and the Phillipines and as it happens I seriously doubt I´ll be in the top 30 of this US Nationals. One or two exceptional shooters do not a trend make. There are a lot of hoser matches here but this Nationals is not one of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontyMart Posted October 13, 2010 Author Share Posted October 13, 2010 Split from the USPSA nats update thread. Thank you for my own thread. I hope US shooters will be willing to embrace change and accept the idea of challenging themselves like the rest of the world. Monty, I'm trying to keep folks from dogpiling you, but please make my job a little easier with some self-moderation. Painting with such a broad brush and saying we don't challenge ourselves "like the rest of the world" might make me think you are trolling. That would not be good. Be as respectful as you wish to be treated. I am just trying to help these Americans. Change is hard at first but the end result is beneficial. I will try to ease up at your request. Thank you for understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 I am just trying to help these Americans. Perhaps getting out there and seeing for yourself whether they/we need any help would be a prudent first step. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 This American will NEVER change or bow down Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 So, in light of your brilliant assessment, what do you suggest USPSA do to improve our chances in winning Open and Production in the next World Shoot? The first step in improving is like I said before to start from the ground up. The area matches need to be more challenging along with the nationals. I look over the stages posted online regularly. I barely ever see weak hand, shots past 20 yds, small steel, unloaded gun starts, requirement to load mag pouches from start, shooting from low ports, covered swingers with no shoots, etc. Sounds like a level 1 match at Old Bridge..... And probably a few other places too..... The US needs to embrace DVC and not just speed. Eric teaches to practice the things that you are weak at. Some Americans teach that too -- Todd Jarrett comes to mind from personal experience -- along with the concept that training happens in practice sessions, not in matches..... Matches are useful for evaluating skills, not for building them.... I was told that the World Shoot Qualifier in SC was a wide open SPEED match. Good to know that you're using rumor as a basis for argument.... You will never see this in Europe. At this years US nationals, a no shoot is put on an Elephant sized US target at 7 yards and you call it challenging. My thesis statement is that US shooters are unintentionally training to lose in Greece. I don't know about Elephant size -- the Turtle is 3/4 the square area of the Metric Target; the turtle has an A-zone that is 60% of the body A-zone of the Metric and 500% of the upper panel A-zone of the Metric. We do shoot at heads only here -- and sometimes even at distances farther than 7 yards. In fact Vlad once had a stage that required engaging a head only target weakhanded at 20 yards.... BTW -- for anyone wanting to recreate the match the A-zone width is off by 5 cm in the rulebook -- it should be 6" or 15 cm wide for the Metric.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 The 2010 Florida Open had 10 stages, all 30 rounds or better. No weak-hand/strong-hand shooting, but LOTS of targets/steel out at 30 yards. And yet I did not see Arik Grafel. Was he too busy practicing? Or was he afraid Max would beat him again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontyMart Posted October 13, 2010 Author Share Posted October 13, 2010 The 2010 Florida Open had 10 stages, all 30 rounds or better. No weak-hand/strong-hand shooting, but LOTS of targets/steel out at 30 yards. And yet I did not see Arik Grafel. Was he too busy practicing? Or was he afraid Max would beat him again? Chris, Hahahaha Are you serious? Michel Max can not beat Eric. That is a dream of yours. I was told that Michel has gone as far as shaving his head in order to shave stage times. Eric's father mentioned that he did this in order to close the gap between him and Eric. I wouldn't be suprised if Max has even tried Zen before. Lol Regards, MontyG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 (edited) Chris, Hahahaha Are you serious? Michel Max can not beat Eric. That is a dream of yours. I was told that Michel has gone as far as shaving his head in order to shave stage times. Eric's father mentioned that he did this in order to close the gap between him and Eric. I wouldn't be suprised if Max has even tried Zen before. Lol Regards, MontyG Oh my .... where is the popcorn emoticon? http://www.frankgarciausa.com/flaopen/2008/openoa.html Edited October 13, 2010 by Chris Keen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontyMart Posted October 13, 2010 Author Share Posted October 13, 2010 The OP has a point. US stages often do not require the level of accuracy that international matches do. I believe there is a mindset in the US that we need to keep things on the wide open / fun side in order to keep shooters coming back to matches. Too often I see a match that requires funny body positions and leaning around walls to make the shots tough. It's like we're afraid of putting a headshot out at 25 yards because most guys won't make it. Well too damn bad, learn to shoot the gun. Matthew, I could not have said it better myself. You are one of the exceptional American shooters who have embraced change. I looked up your match results. I can tell by your great shooting performance that you have been incorporating these ideals in your training. I would not be suprised if you are the next Eric Graufel. Well that's alot to hope for but you are on the right path. Keep up the good shooting and let you other American friends know that they must try to challenge themselves more. If they can't make the shot, tough. Go practice some more. This is not IDPA. Sincerely, MontyG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alfie Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MontyMart Posted October 13, 2010 Author Share Posted October 13, 2010 Chris, Hahahaha Are you serious? Michel Max can not beat Eric. That is a dream of yours. I was told that Michel has gone as far as shaving his head in order to shave stage times. Eric's father mentioned that he did this in order to close the gap between him and Eric. I wouldn't be suprised if Max has even tried Zen before. Lol Regards, MontyG Oh my .... where is the popcorn emoticon? http://www.frankgarciausa.com/flaopen/2008/openoa.html Chris, Who is the current open world champ? You don't need a link to answer that question. Think about it! Stop arguing with me and embrace change. You will like the result. MontyG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrawandDuck Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 You know guys, some people like "pushing" buttons just to get a reaction........and sometimes the best reaction is no reaction a all........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanky Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 (edited) While I would tend to agree with the OP's comments in regards to challenging shooters, the delivery, snide comments and insults, etc, leave a lot to be desired. Your message may have had some merit but it was lost in your negativity, assumptions, rumor milling and such. Edited October 13, 2010 by spanky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seth Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 Chris, Hahahaha Are you serious? Michel Max can not beat Eric. That is a dream of yours. I was told that Michel has gone as far as shaving his head in order to shave stage times. Eric's father mentioned that he did this in order to close the gap between him and Eric. I wouldn't be suprised if Max has even tried Zen before. Lol Regards, MontyG Oh my .... where is the popcorn emoticon? http://www.frankgarc...008/openoa.html Chris, Who is the current open world champ? You don't need a link to answer that question. Think about it! Stop arguing with me and embrace change. You will like the result. MontyG AND who's the current STANDARD or MODIFIED champ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 Hmm I think this is the VERY first time a new member here has takem me from zero...to plain pissed off in only 23 posts Time to shut this down before we become impolite..I am biting my tongue as it is Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted October 13, 2010 Share Posted October 13, 2010 Time out, everyone. Don't feed the troll. Monty, you were cautioned about your attitude and presentation. *Do not even consider restarting this discussion elsewhere on this forum. Here, when it's closed...it's done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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