current preference 9 mm major or 38 super/super comp?

[Fireant]

Tried marking my brass and never really got any more back than when I didn't. It just added time to making ammo for the match.

[digerup]

I debated the same issue when I was going to purchase an open gun. After reading many threads I decided not to take the chance on a gun not functioning reliably. I'm no top shooter, but there's nothing worse than having problems with a gun malfunction in a match. I didnt see enough of a savings in just 9mm brass, if you figure saving $100 in lost brass over the course of a year.

[Team Amish 1]

After the recent poll taken, we will soon get to read about the currently preferred caliber for Open... and then we'll know for sure.

[T.McDevitt]

I sold my 38 Super and my SC. Running two guns in 9mm Major and could not be any happier both run 100% use 7.9gr Silhouette 124gr MG CMJ relatively clean.

I sold my 38 Super. Running two guns in 9mm Major and could not be any happier both run 100% use 7.9gr Silhouette 124gr MG CMJ. Powder seems relatively clean but I used Silhouette in 38 S and it was the only powder I used for major.. SO maybe I just think it's clean ?? and some of the brass I feed them, I should be ashamed of but I'm not..

[Matt Cheely]

95% of the open guns I build are 9mm...

[CocoBolo]

I now have more 9 Major Guns than 38SC. I'm still too new to 9 major to commit to it completely but I feel that day is just around the corner

[austex]

From a random sample of brass from the Open/Limited 10 Nationals (n=383):

2% 45 ACP

29% 40 S&W

40% 38 variants (38 Super, 38SC, 38TJ, 9x21, etc.)

29% 9x19

At that match, there were 110 L10 shooters (99 major, 11 minor) and 271 Open shooters (265 major, 6 minor).

From this, it looks like 9 major was significantly less common than 38.

[diehli]

From a random sample of brass from the Open/Limited 10 Nationals (n=383):

2% 45 ACP

29% 40 S&W

40% 38 variants (38 Super, 38SC, 38TJ, 9x21, etc.)

29% 9x19

At that match, there were 110 L10 shooters (99 major, 11 minor) and 271 Open shooters (265 major, 6 minor).

From this, it looks like 9 major was significantly less common than 38.

Can you explain the math that lead you to that conclusion? Or maybe your definition of "significant" is different from mine.

[austex]

Can you explain the math that lead you to that conclusion? Or maybe your definition of "significant" is different from mine.

Let's assume that all of the 9x19 came from 9 major open shooters, which likely tends to bias the results positively for 9 major because many if not not most of the L10 and Open minor shooters likely contributed 9x19 brass. Let's also assume that all of the 38 variants came from open major shooters, which doesn't seem too unreasonable. And let's also assume that all of the 45 and 40 came from L10 shooters.

For open major under those assumptions, then 9 major would constitute 29%/(29%+40%) = 42% and the 38 variants would constitute 40%/(29%+40%) = 58%. I consider a 16% difference significant. But, as you note, that conclusion depends on how "significant" is defined.

[shooterbenedetto]

9 major in practice and 38supercomp or 38tj for Big match!

little softer in big match is a good thing. I have both worlds!

dont like to pick up brass in practice and dont have time to pick

up brass in big match. hope this makes sense.

[CocoBolo]

9 major in practice and 38supercomp or 38tj for Big match!

little softer in big match is a good thing. I have both worlds!

dont like to pick up brass in practice and dont have time to pick

up brass in big match. hope this makes sense.

Makes no sense at all, Big matches are lost brass!

Pratice with what you will shoot in the big match.

I'm finding that my 9 major guns actually shoot flatter and softer than the 38SC guns. This is probably because they are newer and of better "design" none the less you don't give up anything in shootabiltiy.

Brass is a wash. If you have a source of once fired 9 mm its the obvious choice if you have to buy your 9 mm then it is basically a toss up. If you are buying a used gun a 38S will be cheaper since most of the 9 major guns are newer.

When I shoot 9 major I pick up OP brass. That is Other Peoples brass, I don't pick mine up, I'm not going to fret with how many times its been loaded and if its bad or good etc, just use once fired load it once let it go. In 38SC/TJ I shoot it till it splits, paint it blue with Dykem. I just dropped 400 TJ at Nationals and will drop another 300 at Gator in a couple weeks, the pile is getting smaller, when its gone I'll get that last gun converted to 9 major. I roll everything in a CasePro 9/38/40/45.

My squad at Nationals was about 50/50 9 vs 38S. I finished last in the Squad but I don't think it was the 38S it was the Indian, I was the only C. One of the shooters had two or 3 FTF in the match and as I recall he was also 38S, none of the 9 mm had an issue. Small sample for statistical purposes.

[diehli]

Can you explain the math that lead you to that conclusion? Or maybe your definition of "significant" is different from mine.

Let's assume that all of the 9x19 came from 9 major open shooters, which likely tends to bias the results positively for 9 major because many if not not most of the L10 and Open minor shooters likely contributed 9x19 brass. Let's also assume that all of the 38 variants came from open major shooters, which doesn't seem too unreasonable. And let's also assume that all of the 45 and 40 came from L10 shooters.

For open major under those assumptions, then 9 major would constitute 29%/(29%+40%) = 42% and the 38 variants would constitute 40%/(29%+40%) = 58%. I consider a 16% difference significant. But, as you note, that conclusion depends on how "significant" is defined.

10-4. Same math, different definition.

[lilbeauxdawg]

i use 9mm major because i can just leave the brass behind me and not care. also i had all the loading equipment for 9mm and none for 38.

[G-ManBart]

9 major in practice and 38supercomp or 38tj for Big match!

little softer in big match is a good thing. I have both worlds!

dont like to pick up brass in practice and dont have time to pick

up brass in big match. hope this makes sense.

Makes no sense at all, Big matches are lost brass! Yeah, and leaving $40 worth of brass on the ground at a match you paid $1500 to shoot really shouldn't drive what you use. I'm pretty sure he's saying that the reliability edge is worth losing brass for at a big match.

Pratice with what you will shoot in the big match.

I'm finding that my 9 major guns actually shoot flatter and softer than the 38SC guns. This is probably because they are newer and of better "design" none the less you don't give up anything in shootabiltiy. Small sample size. I've shot several (newer) identical guns in both, and the 38SC guns were always softer and flatter. Anything comp wise that works well for 9, will work better for Super/SC because you can use a larger charge of slower powder if you want/need to.

[G-ManBart]

Can you explain the math that lead you to that conclusion? Or maybe your definition of "significant" is different from mine.

Raw numbers it works out to 78 9s and 108 Super/SC/TJs....30 more 38s is an increase of nearly 40%.

[3gunpinoy]

I primarily shoot 9 due to brass saving reasons only. althought i do have both new 38 super and 9mm guns, i still could not get the 9mm to dot track better than my super, and yes, i did practice both for months and still same result. i just like the super in terms of dot track and softness compared to the 9mm (basing on the fact that both guns chronos nearly the same velocity). so i prefer to shoot the supers on big matches and just do the local weekly ones on 9mm. If budgets are out the window, i will still stick to the supers.

[ss+P]

Ok let me add another question to this dilema.

I have access to really really cheap 9mm +p ammo.

Should i go with a 9mm major open or a 38 s/sc

second question: if i buy a 38 s/sc can i put a 9mm barrel in in for training purposes.

or does there have to be a lot of gunsmithing

[dansy]

I have said it before the cost of the brass is very small in my shooting budget....I pick-up all my practice and local match brass...so I only loose at big match, yes I travel a fair amount but still very cheap, since most match is below 400 rds.

I have shoot 9mm guns and they are more abusive to the shooter in general (my opinion and opinion on this subject vary a lot) I also have shoot some 38 SC (not mine)that was don't right abusive (mainly SVI Hybrid) and I always insist on letting peoples shoot my guns with my ammo, and theirs with their ammo....that way you see how well they shoot or not.

For me it's 38SC and really don't plan on switching since I would also have to buy the 9mm brass and you can't used it 10-15 times , I think one should practice with what you shoot matches with so either one and stick with that!

[CocoBolo]

+p won't get you to major and it may not shoot very well. But you can always shoot minor with factory ammo. You will need to drop the recoil spring down a pound or two and adjust the C-More.

Be advised that some 9 mm brass is not suitable for reloading and I found that out the hard way. So I now check all brass with a magnet since some of it is actually steel.

The safe choice is 38SC or 38 Super. I would reserve 9 major for expierenced reloaders and open shooters since there is more to learn about 9 major. Also you will find used super guns are a lot cheaper, and easier to find.

A gun can be dual barrelled and comped in 38SC and 9 mm. I have one that is 38SC and 9 Major. The cost is about $400 for a barrel and comp and then whatever the smith charges for fitting the barrel and comp maybe $200. The extractor for 38SC and 9 mm is the same in the AFTEC. Also be aware that you will need to reset the Zero when changing barrels they will not hit in the same spot.

[G-ManBart]

Ok let me add another question to this dilema.

I have access to really really cheap 9mm +p ammo.

Should i go with a 9mm major open or a 38 s/sc

second question: if i buy a 38 s/sc can i put a 9mm barrel in in for training purposes.

or does there have to be a lot of gunsmithing

Define "really, really cheap". I think most of us can load 9 Major or .38SC Major for about $15/100 (using expensive components) excluding the cost of brass and $28/100 with new brass.

Yes, you can get a second barrel and comp fit to the same gun, and use it for training, but the expense $450+ (low end) would buy a lot of components.

[G-ManBart]

Also you will find used super guns are a lot cheaper, and easier to find.

Easier to find...yes, because there are more of them out there. Cheaper? People say that, but it doesn't match what the prices are in the classifieds.

I bought the cheapest modern Open gun I've ever seen listed here ($1300) and it's a Major 9 gun. The most expensive guns I've seen listed in the past year or so have been Super/SC guns (a couple of Brazos Pro Sx)....there's one listed now for $5K.

[818-DVC]

There's also a .38sc Springfield custom shop TRI framed open pistol in the classifieds for $1200.

If/when I shoot uspsa open, it would be 38sc. Is Lapua still making their rimless case? I haven't read anything about them in a long time.

[CocoBolo]

Also you will find used super guns are a lot cheaper, and easier to find.

Easier to find...yes, because there are more of them out there. Cheaper? People say that, but it doesn't match what the prices are in the classifieds.

I bought the cheapest modern Open gun I've ever seen listed here ($1300) and it's a Major 9 gun. The most expensive guns I've seen listed in the past year or so have been Super/SC guns (a couple of Brazos Pro Sx)....there's one listed now for $5K.

Ok lets qualify that. 1. The cost of used open gun is "what the market will bare". 2. Most 9 major guns are more since they are newer than the older 38SC Guns.

There are a lot of good Open guns for sale because a lot of shooters think they want to shoot open then find out its not that easy and then they quit and sell the gun.

Bart that was a good buy you got on the Ugly 9 major gun, but it runs and shoots.

As to the SpringField Gun up for sale, I happen to know its a gun that runs and at the price it is a good deal. If I didn't have 4 and one brand new that is unfired I'd snag it just to re-sell it later. The comp isn't what I like but with the right load it will work just fine. The mags that come with it are ugly but in 38 super just get some new STI's from Brazos custom and start shooting.

[818-DVC]

If I could own that gun, I would have bought it weeks ago.

[G-ManBart]

Is Lapua still making their rimless case? I haven't read anything about them in a long time.

As far as I know, Lapua is still making .38 Super Lapua brass. It's good stuff, but more expensive and harder to get than .38SC is. Technically, it's probably "better" than .38SC (as is TJ), but it does start getting to the argument about how many fairies can dance on the end of a pin....38SC is more than good enough. Right now Starline actually has .38TJ in stock...surprised the heck out of me! R,

Bart