Magazine Safety

[67GTONUT]

Hey all...

I currently own a M&P 9FS..... This is my main firearm for Home Defense. I live in NJ, so CCW is not an option for everyday use (yet...hoping things will one day change), but I do have my CCW permit for FL and VA, and do CC when I visit states that it is legal for me to do so....

Not knowing at the time that I would start doing USPSA..... I bought my M&P with a magazine safety. This of course is sort of a pain already in the 2 matches I have attended...... having to load and empty mag, pull trigger, remove mag and holster....

I pretty much use the USPSA events to keep my tactical skills sharp, and I probably wont do more then 6-8 events a year...

Would you.....

1. Just suck it up with the magazine safety for the USPSA events and NOT mess with a gun that is used for Home Defense and CCW.

2. Remove the magazine safety to make the USPSA events less of an annoyance , yet take the chance of using a "modified" gun for Home Defense and CCW ( some people are critical of using a firearm that has had a "safety" feature altered.... should you end up in front of a jury for using it in a Defense situation)

3. Hey this is a great excuse to go get that M&P 9L that I want..... and have a strictly for USPSA tool.... but I do admit, money is tight, and this of course is the expensive option.

What do you think?

[z40acp]

If money is tight, choose #1. If you go to a larger match, your modified gun cannot be used in production.

[67GTONUT]

If money is tight, choose #1. If you go to a larger match, your modified gun cannot be used in production.

I did not realize that...... Thank you, that will make decision easier....

Edit..

I just checked....

According to Appendix D4 22.1

Remains in effect – external- and externally operated

safety mechanisms must remain operable. (no

change)

Special Notes/Clarifications:

• For purposes of this clause, a “trigger safety” is

externally visible, and must remain operable.

• For purposes of this clause, the prohibition on “disabling”

means that you may NOT modify an external

safety mechanism in any way that affects its function

as a safety per the OEM design.

• For purposes of this clause, a magazine disconnect is NOT considered a safety mechanism, and may be

removed.

Please note that other clauses in the body of the competition

rules require that a “trigger mechanism must,

at all times, function safely” (5.1.4), that handguns

must be “serviceable and safe” (5.1.6) and that the

Range Master is the final authority on the definition

of “safety” as it pertains to the mechanism of the gun

(8.1.2.4). It is the competitor’s responsibility to be

able to demonstrate at any time that all factory safety

mechanisms are functional, regardless

Edited September 22, 2010 by 67GTONUT

[diehli]

If you go to a larger match, your modified gun cannot be used in production.

False. Removal of the magazine disconnect is expressly allowed. Clause 21.1 of Appendix D4 expressly permits it: "For purposes of this clause, a magazine-disconnect is NOT considered a safety mechanism, and may be removed."

'Nut: Ditch it. I did. It's allowed.

Or, get the 9L.

ETA: Whoops... I took far too long to answer that. That'll teach me to walk away to do other stuff.

But, yeah, you're right on the money.

Edited September 22, 2010 by diehli

[Six]

Disable it for now...

[Rob Tompkins]

Disable it.

If it's ever an issue, remember that same gun is available from the factory with out the mag safety, you were just reconfiguring to a different factory configuration.

[DocMedic]

Hey all...

I currently own a M&P 9FS..... This is my main firearm for Home Defense. I live in NJ, so CCW is not an option for everyday use (yet...hoping things will one day change), but I do have my CCW permit for FL and VA, and do CC when I visit states that it is legal for me to do so....

Not knowing at the time that I would start doing USPSA..... I bought my M&P with a magazine safety. This of course is sort of a pain already in the 2 matches I have attended...... having to load and empty mag, pull trigger, remove mag and holster....

I pretty much use the USPSA events to keep my tactical skills sharp, and I probably wont do more then 6-8 events a year...

Would you.....

1. Just suck it up with the magazine safety for the USPSA events and NOT mess with a gun that is used for Home Defense and CCW.

2. Remove the magazine safety to make the USPSA events less of an annoyance , yet take the chance of using a "modified" gun for Home Defense and CCW ( some people are critical of using a firearm that has had a "safety" feature altered.... should you end up in front of a jury for using it in a Defense situation)

3. Hey this is a great excuse to go get that M&P 9L that I want..... and have a strictly for USPSA tool.... but I do admit, money is tight, and this of course is the expensive option.

What do you think?

You don't need a empty mag to release the striker, if you have long enough fingers.

[spanky]

If you are concerned with legal issues, why not sell it and buy one that doesn't have it?

[70116]

If you are concerned with legal issues, why not sell it and buy one that doesn't have it?

What ^^^^ he ^^^^ said.

[G-ManBart]

If you are concerned with legal issues, why not sell it and buy one that doesn't have it?

That's a good option, but probably a bit of a PITA being he lives in NJ....certainly doable, but still a pain.

I'm not picking on NJ (too much)...heck, I used to drive cement mixers for Allied Concrete in Rockaway, and cruise the mall there in high school

[spanky]

If you are concerned with legal issues, why not sell it and buy one that doesn't have it?

That's a good option, but probably a bit of a PITA being he lives in NJ....certainly doable, but still a pain.

I'm not picking on NJ (too much)...heck, I used to drive cement mixers for Allied Concrete in Rockaway, and cruise the mall there in high school

Probably a PITA but I'd imagine it'd be less of a PITA than being reamed by an overzealous prosecutor after he uses his "modified semi-automatic handgun" to end the life of some poor, defenseless, disadvantaged urban youth.

Edited September 22, 2010 by spanky

[z40acp]

Sorry for my error. When I bought my gun the mag disconnect was one of the things I was told to avoid. I think they changed this last year.

[Maksim]

I could of sworn this post was looking familiar and I was about to link it to the thread on NJ gun forums. lol.

Hey Troy. You know my take on it... I dont agree with modifying the trigger/gun in any way if this is your main CCW/home defense gun. An unfriendly prosecutor would love to hammer it and state that you modified your gun to be more deadly.

Either modify the gun and use it for competitions and use a different gun for home defense, or get a good competition gun that you want.

woot woot, troy is shooting uspsa. =)

[67GTONUT]

Well...... Selling it and buying another is out. I love the gun, and it has a Dan Burwell trigger job. As far as the legal thing..... I am sure some will argue that the trigger job can be picked on by a prosecutor as making it more deadly.....

I think a 9L is in the future.....

Thanks everyone!!!!

[Del]

I use a MP with the mag safety.

I use one of the blue training mags -- I can't remember the name of the company but the name RINGS seems to ring a bell. Anyway its a mag that cant be loaded so I use it for matches and dry fire

[67GTONUT]

I use a MP with the mag safety.

I use one of the blue training mags -- I can't remember the name of the company but the name RINGS seems to ring a bell. Anyway its a mag that cant be loaded so I use it for matches and dry fire

I made my own for now...... gutted a 17rd mag(illegal in NJ), and epoxied the baseplate on, and painted it blue....

[sperman]

If money is tight, choose #1. If you go to a larger match, your modified gun cannot be used in production.

Since when did the rulebook become optional at "smaller matches?"

[Del]

I use a MP with the mag safety.

I use one of the blue training mags -- I can't remember the name of the company but the name RINGS seems to ring a bell. Anyway its a mag that cant be loaded so I use it for matches and dry fire

I made my own for now...... gutted a 17rd mag(illegal in NJ), and epoxied the baseplate on, and painted it blue....

thats a good idea!

whish I would have thought of that

[mdschappell]

Hey all...

I currently own a M&P 9FS..... This is my main firearm for Home Defense. I live in NJ, so CCW is not an option for everyday use (yet...hoping things will one day change), but I do have my CCW permit for FL and VA, and do CC when I visit states that it is legal for me to do so....

Not knowing at the time that I would start doing USPSA..... I bought my M&P with a magazine safety. This of course is sort of a pain already in the 2 matches I have attended...... having to load and empty mag, pull trigger, remove mag and holster....

I pretty much use the USPSA events to keep my tactical skills sharp, and I probably wont do more then 6-8 events a year...

Would you.....

1. Just suck it up with the magazine safety for the USPSA events and NOT mess with a gun that is used for Home Defense and CCW.

2. Remove the magazine safety to make the USPSA events less of an annoyance , yet take the chance of using a "modified" gun for Home Defense and CCW ( some people are critical of using a firearm that has had a "safety" feature altered.... should you end up in front of a jury for using it in a Defense situation)

3. Hey this is a great excuse to go get that M&P 9L that I want..... and have a strictly for USPSA tool.... but I do admit, money is tight, and this of course is the expensive option.

What do you think?

You don't need a empty mag to release the striker, if you have long enough fingers.

Rules say that the trigger must be pulled on an empty chamber. My gun has a decocker and I still have to pull the trigger to drop the hammer / striker at the end of the stage.

[jar]

Hey all...

I currently own a M&P 9FS..... This is my main firearm for Home Defense. I live in NJ, so CCW is not an option for everyday use (yet...hoping things will one day change), but I do have my CCW permit for FL and VA, and do CC when I visit states that it is legal for me to do so....

Not knowing at the time that I would start doing USPSA..... I bought my M&P with a magazine safety. This of course is sort of a pain already in the 2 matches I have attended...... having to load and empty mag, pull trigger, remove mag and holster....

I pretty much use the USPSA events to keep my tactical skills sharp, and I probably wont do more then 6-8 events a year...

Would you.....

1. Just suck it up with the magazine safety for the USPSA events and NOT mess with a gun that is used for Home Defense and CCW.

2. Remove the magazine safety to make the USPSA events less of an annoyance , yet take the chance of using a "modified" gun for Home Defense and CCW ( some people are critical of using a firearm that has had a "safety" feature altered.... should you end up in front of a jury for using it in a Defense situation)

3. Hey this is a great excuse to go get that M&P 9L that I want..... and have a strictly for USPSA tool.... but I do admit, money is tight, and this of course is the expensive option.

What do you think?

You don't need a empty mag to release the striker, if you have long enough fingers.

Rules say that the trigger must be pulled on an empty chamber. My gun has a decocker and I still have to pull the trigger to drop the hammer / striker at the end of the stage.

You can reach up in the magwell and depress the mag disconnect lever. I used to do it on my M&P compact until I thought about what might happen if a round ended up in the chamber. Then I got a trigger job and had the mag disconnect removed.

I think the whole legal thing about a modified gun is way overblown.

[67GTONUT]

I am still very torn on this issue......

I have a lead on a PRO..... but to spend $600 for 6-8 USPSA events a year, just doesnt seem wise.

Also.... altering my current M&P for the 6-8 USPSA events a year might also be silly.....

Still deciding.....

[Jeff686]

It is only a legal issue if you accidentally shoot someone without a magazine installed.

If you intended to shoot someone, it is moot.

Tangent:

I never really understood the stupid magazine safety anyway. What does it really do? There are so many guns out there without them that you don't trust 'no magazine = no bang' anyway. In fact, it's mear existance probably causes more uncertainty than anything else.

[GForceLizard]

You have the Burwell trigger job on this gun so it's already the wrong gun for defense. Disable the mag safety and get an M&P compact 9mm for defense.

[twodownzero]

Where in the USPSA rules does it prohibit removal of a mag safety anyway?

[67GTONUT]

Where in the USPSA rules does it prohibit removal of a mag safety anyway?

it doesnt....