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I found that Red Loctite wouldn't do the job without a set screw. Go shoot the equivalent of a 24 round stage and feel the end of the barrel right away. Blue doesn't even need heat and the vibration alone will loosen it . I just checked some times of mine (and I'm a D) and 24 round stages, which don't require a mag change are usually in the 15-16 second range, depending on how much movement there is.

It's not very quick and easy to switch barrels once the comp is in place. You need to use red loctite or something similar to keep the comp in place and it's a pain to remove it once it's set. +1. You need a good set screw and dimple in the barrel as well as the Red Loctite

Well, I figured that since I started this thread that I'd jump back in. I had both shoulders surgically repaired and am now getting signed off for pretty much anything want to do, shooting wise. I've also gotten 2 years older and at 73, don't expect to compete with the kids. My 2 open M&P's are still being modified and enhanced so everything is a work in process. There are a dozen GM's and M's who've shot both of these guns and have been positively surprised at how they handle. I had one GM shoot the major gun with loads that had been verified at 173 - 175 PF who kept insisting that they had to be minor loads. Here is what's been developing:- Comps: We've experimented with Carver and Jager. I know the Jager doesn't match the slide but we're most interested in performance. The comp that works best with the loads that I use, is the Jager with the first two ports combined. The gun shoots flat and the dot never leaves your field of vision. That's with major or minor loads in the 9L and in the FS. The Major load is MG 124JHP, Federal SPP, 6.8-6.9 AutoComp, 1.165 OAL. That consistently is a 173 - 174 PF. The Minor load is MG 147CMJ, Federal SPP, 4.7 Autocomp, 1.115-1.117 OAL and is a 130-132 PF. I've tried various factory loads and have concluded that they don't run the comp. You need gas and AutoComp does a great job. It's temperature insensitive which is also nice. You really need to work with your gun and your loads to come up with what works best for you. Barrels: My major gun runs a Storm Lake threaded barrel and the FS has a S&W factory threaded barrel. I've tried the Storm Lake ported barrel and haven't been happy with it. RDS. I like the DeltaPoint but whatever you have or like should do just fine if it'll stand up to the beating it'll take being slide mounted. I have well over 25K major and another 5K + minor through my 9L and the sight is fine. Right now we're in the process of machining the slide to direct mount the RDS. The first gun we're experimenting with is the FS and it seems to be doing well. The 9L is next. As an aside, Unity Tactical in Louisiana is now machining M&P and Glock Slides for RDS's. Wear and tear. So far the minor gun hasn't needed anything replaced. We just replaced the APEX Trigger and the Trigger Bar Assembly, Striker Assembly, and the Slide Stop Assembly. I've also replaced the magazine springs for the Taylor Freelance +10 Extensions. Scott at Apex Tactical has done much of the work and is a pleasure to work with.

Don, Thanks for the kind words. The better understanding is so important as is the fun of accomplishment. I know that the younger, more experienced guys are going to beat me at the matches but they have to work hard to have as much fun as I do. One area where I've also had some interesting results has been with loads. There are a number of people who've shot the major load we've developed and have switched to it. We're now working up a minor load for steel in an M&P 9FS. I've always liked the feel of the Atlanta Arms 9mm 147 FMJ which chrono's at about 131 in my M&P's. It doesn't have the characteristics to work a comp though. So, we're experimenting with a similar load which uses Autocomp. We're just about there and it seems to be performing well. The load is MG 147FMJ, WSP, 4.1 AC and we're playing with the OAL to finalize the load since the physical bullet sizes are different. I realize that it's completely opposite the trsadition steel load but if it lets me shoot and transition quickly and runs the gun flat, I'll use it. Good luck to you too. George

Gary, Randy would be the best person to explain his solution. He told me that it was similar to a problem that existed wth 1911's. What he did (among other things) was to mill the rear right side of the exection port. Thanks for the info on the Carver Comp. I'll order one today from Kenny & add it to our comp test. I care mostly about functionality but It'll be nice to have a comp that's more esthetically pleasing to choose from. In the end, I'll go with whichever shoots flattest. I also find it interesting that Carver's web site mentions M&P optic mounting systems coming soon. I believe that the M&P FS will become the entry level open gun in the next couple of years.

Darrin, My three Delta Points each get "abused' differently and all function perfectly. One is on my CCW 9c, carried IWB daily. The second is on my Open Gun which now has about 12k rounds through it of which 7k are major. The third is on my Open 2 gun, has been struck well over 3000 times by ejected cases and still has no marks on the glass and a little noticeable roughness on the frame where it takes the hits from the cases. Ken, of SSS, has been working on developing a frame mount for the M&P, but I haven't been following his efforts closely. I last checked into Comps a few months ago and I didn't find anyone making one specificaly for the M&P's. I think that'll continue to be the situation until there's a sufficient market. I'm happy with the performance of the modified Jager on my Open gun and we'll be experimenting with an unmodified Jager and Lone Wolf this summer. I'm less concerned with the fine details of appearance then with the functionality. George

Thanks, I'm looking forward to a July meeting. G

I do not think that he is concerned by the amount of money spent but just in the journey to get it there and get a platform that he likes to work reliably. I also like the fact that you can go back and forth from an open M&P to a Production M&P and have it handle, feel, and index the same. Thanks, you are so right. Maybe I'll run into you this summer since I'll be shooting in NJ. I'll be easy to find with my yellow shirt and I'll be the guy shooting open major, weak hand only. I found out that I have torn rotator cuffs in both shoulders. The right will be surgically repaired in 2 weeks but will not be usable for shooting for 8-12 weeks after the surgery. So, it's a weak hand summer. Interestingly, I'm more accurate but slower with the weak hand so it's a great opportunity to improve. I got a LH Double Alpha holster and I've been shooting weak hand only for the past month. It is great practice and a great confidence builder, especially for CCW. One really nice thing about the AA holster is that my CCW is an M&P 9c with a Delta Point so I can work on technique with minor loads and transition to the major loads with the 9L using the same 15rd mags for both.

Not really. I have 3 guns that I can comfortably shoot open with. I will take exception with your final comment since I have a real open pistol. I believe that this would be attested to by a number of people who have shot it and competed against it. It may not be as pretty as some others but it handles well, shoots accurately and quickly and I've learned more about guns and ammunition in the past year then I ever thought I'd know. I've also met a great group of people and feel proud to be among the early protagonists of an 'affordable' open gun. Based on the work that's been done by me and others, it's reasonable to state that one can have an open major M&P 9 for under $1500 complete with mags. And, as more and more folks get involved with it, the innovation will continue and the gun will only get better.

Thanks Jay. Did I meet you at Tangi in February or March?

My current load is MG124JHP, Win SPP, 6.7-6.8 AutoComp, 1.165 OAL. The load was worked up by my friend Darrell and info posted here.

Not yet, we're just about to start on it. The 9L slide was lightened. My guess is that the 9FS will neeed lightening as well. George

I started with minor and realized that I needed the major points so I switched over. Actually, my gun runs flatter as the PF increases and also feels softer. My 172 loads feel softer then factory 115's. I'm in it just for the fun but there's still that competitive edge that gets in there. The Open shooters I see every week are all so serious and competitive among themselves that it rubs off. It does help you get better when you practice with them every week as well as watching them shoot stages and geting good tips from them.

9 Major or Minor?

Yes, This gun is 'Open 1' and thank you for the kind words. 'Open 2' which only had drop in parts; Storm Lake Ported Barrel, Delta Point sight and SSS Magwell, is getting it's standard barrel back with Dawson adjustable rear and Dawson F/O front Tritium sights, no magwell and becoming my Production gun. It will also be my backup CCW. There wasn't any slide lightening done nor were there any ejection port modifications made. I'll play with the guide rod, Tungsten or stainless, and springs (11 through 15#) and see what shoots best with the softest load. We have good loads for 115, 124 amd 147 JHP's so it all comes down to what feels best to me and minimizes muzzle flip. We discovered that due to the slide weight, the 9L and even more so the 9 PRO, which is even heavier, aren't reallly adaptable to 9 Open. The stock slide almost stops before it fully cycles. When I take the litle knowledge I have and realize that there's not going to be any noticible difference in accuracy between the 5.71" threaded barrel of the 9L or 9 PRO and the 5.01" threaded barrel of the 9 FS, and that slide length doesn't come into play with a RDS, the 9FS is a much better choice for an Open Gun. If I was going to scrap or sell 'Open 1' (which I am not going to do), I would build a new Open gun on a 9 FS - speaking of which, we come to 'Open 3', our next project which will start in late February. 'Open 3' will be my Steel Gun and will be a 9FS. After pricing the alternatives, we came up with the S&P 9 Threaded Barrel as the least expensive option. Since just about everything except for the slide itself is interchangable between the FS and the L or PRO, we have all of the parts we need from 'Open 2'. Guide Rods, Springs, Delta Point and a bunch of different loads to try. The only part I need to buy is a Comp. I've started to research those to determine what will work best with steel loads. Wehad a great deal of success with the modified Jager on 'Open 1' and I like trhe design concept that all of the ports are directed to flatness so I'm leaning towards that for a start. I originally decided on the M&P platform when I started shooting Production with my CCW 9c. That has now been set up with the APEX Competition Springs and other mods which make it unsuitable as a CCW gun so it will be my Production backup. I have acquired another 9c which is being set up as my Primary CCW with the APEX DCAEK (Carry Kit) and a Delta Point sight. I am so happy with the Delta Point and feel more comfortable and faster with it than iron sights, particularly at night. I need 'special glasses' to shoot iron sights but use my street glasses with the DP. To me, its a no brainer. So that's where we go from here. I'm travelling a lot over that next three weeks but when I return I'll get some good videos up of Open 1 n action. Last comment. If I wanted to shoot Limited, I just have to buy a .40FS or .40L slide, and a few mags. I can use the lower from 'Open 3', Guide Rods and Springs that I have, and I have a Limited Gun.