Tac. rifle / 3gun rifle?

[1911vm]

Ok what is the difference between a tactical rifle (Personnel defense) and a 3 gun competition rifle? Is it just the barrel length 16 vs 18or20.

[MarkCO]

Ok what is the difference between a tactical rifle (Personnel defense) and a 3 gun competition rifle? Is it just the barrel length 16 vs 18or20.

The term "tactical" is largely used for "marketing purposes." A 3 gun rifle could be "tactical" rifle, but normally has a match barrel from 16" to 20" with a comp, a JP trigger, a free float handguard and then a variety of sighting options depending on division you prefer. Buttstocks are a matter of fit and preference.

Any reasonably reliable and accurate "tactical" rifle should get you through your first year of matches and then you can decide what a "3 gun competition rifle" means to you.

[joshua79109]

Well,

could be lots of differences

- choice of optic

- use of forward grip / rail

- use of lightened bcg and buffer

- trigger

- use of light

- brand preferred seems to be different

I lean to the personal protection side, but use my carbines for 3 gun and coyotes. So I'd say it depends on your goal. I seem to enjoy shooting for sport, but attempting to maintain a personal protection mindset while doing so. Most post I read around here the folks really gear more towards 3 gun, so they set up their carbines more that way.

I'd imagine you would have plenty of fun taking out your tactical carbine and giving it a try and then if you have the urge you could build a 3 gun carbine any way you want.

[jmurch]

This thread mentions a free floated barrel for three-gun, and I've seen this mentioned elsewhere as well.

Presuming that you aren't using a sling as part of your shooting platform and will not be putting tension on the front of the barrel causing it to flex why would you need a free floated barrel?

I takes a lot to move the barrel such as the leverage of having a sling mount at or beyond the gas block so I wouldn't think that resting the barrel on a support of some kind would be a reason since it wouldn't result in flexing the barrel.

Jeff

[MarkCO]

This thread mentions a free floated barrel for three-gun, and I've seen this mentioned elsewhere as well.

Presuming that you aren't using a sling as part of your shooting platform and will not be putting tension on the front of the barrel causing it to flex why would you need a free floated barrel?

In the vast majority of stages in a normal 3 gun match, we do not shoot using a sling. I did use my sling on about 6 stages over 3 major matches this year. On most medium to long range targets, we search for a rest. Open guys use a bi-pod, and proper bi-pod technique, at least for long range includes loading the bi-pod which moves zero a bunch on a non floated AR. Under match conditions, there is a large amount of force applied to the forend when slamming into props, of a variety of flavors, and in some cases we can also load the forend to benefit the hold. Also, shooting 40 to 60 (sometimes more) rounds in 20 to 60 seconds tends to heat up a barrel and the freefloat barrels hold zero under these conditions MUCH better.

[Graham Smith]

What I seem to be seeing is that a 3-gun rifle will probably have a variable power scope and a tactical rifle probably won't.

[ATAS]

#1 Rifles that are ATAS and that are good for defending the homies look kewl.

#2 ATAS rifles are short and light weight for clearing rooms, stowing in your trunk, shooting with your body armor on.

#3 ATAS rifles are slower and have more recoil.

3 gun rifles are heavier, longer, faster and easier for the soft competition guys to shoot because there big compemsators and lightened bolts eliminate all the recoil.

[ken hebert]

depends on your interpritation of "tactical". seems like most tac opt division rifles closely match the Mk 12 Mod 0 rifle that the military fields, with a change in optics of course.

does tactical (as in AR15.com) mean to you 4 rail hand guards, collapsable stocks, vertical grips, flash hiders, weapon lights, lasers...?

[Bryan 45]

A 3 gun rifle is put together to engage multiple targets from 0 to 400 yards, transition from target to target in tenths of a second, and put multiple hits on a target in less than .20 seconds.

Tacticle rifles are put together to look kool.

[kellyn]

This thread mentions a free floated barrel for three-gun, and I've seen this mentioned elsewhere as well.

Presuming that you aren't using a sling as part of your shooting platform and will not be putting tension on the front of the barrel causing it to flex why would you need a free floated barrel?

I takes a lot to move the barrel such as the leverage of having a sling mount at or beyond the gas block so I wouldn't think that resting the barrel on a support of some kind would be a reason since it wouldn't result in flexing the barrel.

Jeff

Free floated barrels are important in a tactical realm as well. If you do any shooting off barricades, fire hydrants, hoods of cars, trees, bushes, friends, bystanders, mail boxes, you will quickly find out that non-free floated guns often have huge point of impact shifts when the handguard and/or barrel is rested on something.

It seems to me that the ultimate 3 gun rifle and ultimate ATAS tactikewl rifles are getting closer and closer to becoming the same thing. Take a look at a VTAC carbine and a race gun, they are not really that far apart. Tactical rifles seem to have shorter barrels but even the trend there is back to the 14.5 and 16 in lengths. In 3 gun it seems that 17-18 in is the most effective. Of course, you would not want a comp or a 1.5 lb trigger on a fighting gun but I for one disagree with the notion that a fighting rifle must have a trigger that prevents the shooter from hitting anything.

[bigbrowndog]

when its in your house, car, tent, cave, etc. its a Tactical rifle, when its in front of a timer its a 3 gun rifle.

thats pretty much the difference.

trapr

[jbullgpd]

As you can see its a general term that truly means nothing. In the end you can have a gun that will do most things decent, or what a lot of us have or turn to later on is a platform for different purposes. As for me I started out with a basic 16 inch carbine that became my work gun. I then have a 3 gun rifle for tac irons. I then have a upper for varmint hunting and I am now in the process of building my zombie rifle

[1911vm]

So from what I understand the biggest difference is barrel length then the optic. Thank you all for the input , I am just that much closer to what I want.

[Chuck Anderson]

My 3-Gun rifle: JP CTR-02 Competition Rifle, with free-floated forend, 1.5 lb trigger, Magpul UBR stock, 18" shiny pretty barrel, 1-3 or 4 power optic and compensator

My Tactical rifle: (i.e. the one I carry when I point it at people instead or paper) Noveske SBR registered lower, Magpul CTR stock, 5 lb trigger, Larue Tactical upper with 12.5" dull not shiny barrel, LT free float quad rail tube, SureFire M300A light, Grip Pod, Aimpoint M4 and the really important part if I need to actually dump someone with it, SureFire suppressor.

I used to run a Leupold CQ/T on both my Tactical and Competition rifles. Now that my assignment has changed I run the 1x optic instead. My tactical rifle is heavier than my competition rifle due to the Grip Pod, light and suppressor. The Grip Pod comes in very handy when watching a house for hours on end, the light is an absolute necessity on any tactical rifle and the suppressor is just there because my wife thinks I already ignore her now, if I was deaf it would be much worse.

[kellyn]

So from what I understand the biggest difference is barrel length then the optic. Thank you all for the input , I am just that much closer to what I want.

Not necessarily about the optic either. The Leupold CQBSS and MR/T series, Trij ACOGs and the Schmidt & Bender 1-8X are really designed for military use but make excellent 3 gun scopes. A SWAT LEO friend of mine uses the Leupold CQ/T on both his work and play guns.

[Jadeslade]

Ok what is the difference between a tactical rifle (Personnel defense) and a 3 gun competition rifle? Is it just the barrel length 16 vs 18or20.

Lasers, full auto, man behind the gun.

[mpeltier]

when its in your house, car, tent, cave, etc. its a Tactical rifle, when its in front of a timer its a 3 gun rifle.

thats pretty much the difference.

trapr

Great answer Trapr

[AustinT]

The biggest difference is that 3-gun rifles are wicked loud.

[Cold Absolute Zero]

What it means to me:

Tactical - Subdued colors, white tactical light, possibly IR or visible laser, sling, Stock trigger 4-5 lbs, flash suppressor, barrel length and optic applicable to most likely engagement environment, BUIS mandatory.

3Gun - Any color you want, light weight, probably no sling, modified trigger (1-4 lb trigger) or whatever you are comfortable with, compensator, barrel length 16-18, optics appropriate to whatever division you are shooting, BUIS not mandatory.

You can use a tactical gun for 3 gun, but I would caution against using a 3gun rifle for tactical stuff.

CAZ

[Suprdave]

So a JP15 would make a bad Tactical Rifle? Why?

[Chuck Anderson]

So a JP15 would make a bad Tactical Rifle? Why?

Trigger depending on how it is set, mine was about 1.5 lbs., and compensator. Use a flash hider or can instead of the Cooley comp, use a decent weight trigger and the rest you can add crap too it till it's tactical. A three gun rifle can make an excellent base for a tactical gun but there needs to be some stuff added on that isn't there for most 3 gun competitors. White light and slings being the two biggies.

[MarkCO]

A three gun rifle can make an excellent base for a tactical gun but there needs to be some stuff added on that isn't there for most 3 gun competitors. White light and slings being the two biggies.

And therein lies the beauty of the AR platform...MODULARITY. All of my ARs are set up for slings, and all have a spot where a light can be attached. A light and sling go into my load-out for ALL AR duties, including 3 gun. With modular triggers now, you can have one for "Tactical" and one for "Competition." Whatever those two words mean to you can certainly be adapted to on the AR platform!

Suprdave, the biggest thing to me on your question is muzzle treatment. If that JP has a Comp, a flash hider, or a suppressor. Mil/LE may have slightly different ways of dealing with the issue, but fire an AR in a structure without a supressor or hearing protection and you will have hearing damage. I am in the process of trying to convince two departments that they NEED supressors for this reason alone. There is some supporting case law and regulatory law that is pretty compelling w.r.t. LEOs, so there is an obvious transfer to the "tactical" AR regardless of who has the gun.

[jbullgpd]

Good luck with winning the suppressor fight with those PD's. My old PD finally got suppressors with the justification for lab entries since it reduces the flash for possible ignition of all the nasty stuff in those things that are also flammable. You might try that angle with them, especially if they are busting labs there.

[ken hebert]

And therein lies the beauty of the AR platform...MODULARITY.

I've remarked several times that AR's are like adult sized Lego's...

[J.Schmitt]

So a JP15 would make a bad Tactical Rifle? Why?

JP15/VTAC would make a great Tactical Rifle. Has everything you would need. JP has many different options in trigger "weights". A heavier trigger seems to be one item of consensus which has been covered extensively in this discussion.

Jay