Bulging Cases?

[Tul9033]

Lately I have been having stuck rounds in my Glock 17. Real buggers to get disloged. One thing I noticed was all the stuck rounds had this ring near the rim.

It appears to be a bulge to me and this is after resizing. All of this is range pickup brass. I got about 10 of these out of the last 300+ I loaded. Never had an issue like this before the last few months and I have loaded several thousand rounds.

These rounds get stuck in the chamber and most times will not go into battery to be fired. I've gotten where I can spot them after loading, but I have been gauging most of my reloads till this is sorted out.

Are these just bad brass or is there a bigger issue?

PS: They seem to hang right on the line where the sizing die stops on the case.

[Jman]

Looks like your resizing die has a problem. Just a guess however.

[GrumpyOne]

What's the make of the brass? What kind of press? What dies are you using? What's your OAL? Are you sure these are once fired and not something that someone may have had major loaded in once before? That looks like where the sizing ring stops when you size them in the press, so it might not be sizing them all the way down.

[98sr20ve]

I assume they fail the case gauge and you have a bulge below the ring. It appears our sizing die is not touching the shellplate. I would lower it till it barely touches the shellplate. BUT, even having said that those cases look overworked. They look like they bulged too far and need to be tossed. I don't buy into any of that Glocked Brass stuff. That looks like it was overloaded or maybe have been shot in a 9mm Major type setup. You may have some bad brass from a match mixed in your brass stash.

[Bob DuBois]

That Lee/EGW U die sure makes reloading a lot simpler. I can pick up range brass and no problems shooting it through my STI Trojan 9mm, or tight chambered 40's.

Brass fired through a Glock is over sized, measure it sometime before sizing. The U die will fix the problem and it's cheap.

9 that's shot through an open gun I'll leave it on the ground, it's usually stressed and may or may not hold the primer.

Not knocking Glocks I have a couple also, just try and load ammo that works in 1911's and Glocks.

[superdude]

possible useful information:

http://www.38super.net/Pages/Brass.html#Anchor-35882

[ajg]

Sounds like you are using Dillon dies. The base of the sizing die is chamfered so the case to be re-sized enters the die easily. All is well until you pick up some brass that is slightly bulged at the base from being fired from an unsupported chamber. This is known as Glock buldge. The cure is to use a Lee sizing die which has no taper and will size the brass down to the base of the case. Drawback is that the lee die will not accept the case as readily as the Dillon die, you have to watch your alignment, but this is a minor nuisance. Another method is to crimp with the Lee Factory Crimp Die which removes the bulge at the base of the case and sizes the loaded round to factory dimensions. On my Dillon 550 for 9mm I size and crimp with Lee, but drop powder and seat with Dillon dies. Hint: A couple shots of case lube will make sizing easier and will reduce stress on the cases when removing the Glock bulge.

ajg

[G-ManBart]

It could be that your resizing die has worked upwards a bit, but it's probably just brass that was shot in a chamber that's looser than your G17. It's still supported, as the case is in contact with the chamber upon firing, but the diameter of the chamber mouth is larger (pretty much kills the whole "unsupported" chamber theory spouted by so many folks) so the brass expands more. Yes shooting fans, some guns do have chambers with more generous dimensions than Glocks.

The EGW/Lee U-die (undersized) will get farther down on the case (closer to the extractor groove) and the standard Lee resizing die isn't far behind (and better than most other resizing dies). Still, neither one will get all the way to the extractor groove because the shellplate (or shellholder) prevents it. With either die I'd expect it would get enough to work fine in your Glock. 9mm being a tapered case isn't as picky about this as you'll find in straight-walled cases like .40. I'd check that the die is lightly making contact with the shell plate, and if it is, get either of the Lee resizing dies. I have no use for the Lee Factory Crimp die, for a number of reasons....they hide the problem where proper resizing prevents it. R,

[G-ManBart]

Sounds like you are using Dillon dies. The base of the sizing die is chamfered so the case to be re-sized enters the die easily. All is well until you pick up some brass that is slightly bulged at the base from being fired from an unsupported chamber. This is known as Glock buldge. The cure is to use a Lee sizing die which has no taper and will size the brass down to the base of the case. Drawback is that the lee die will not accept the case as readily as the Dillon die, you have to watch your alignment, but this is a minor nuisance. Another method is to crimp with the Lee Factory Crimp Die which removes the bulge at the base of the case and sizes the loaded round to factory dimensions. On my Dillon 550 for 9mm I size and crimp with Lee, but drop powder and seat with Dillon dies. Hint: A couple shots of case lube will make sizing easier and will reduce stress on the cases when removing the Glock bulge.

ajg

Glock chambers are actually fully supported, and have been for many years (my oldest is from 1993 or 1994). Only the very earliest would be considered less than fully supported and those left different looking marks on the brass. Other than those very early models they have about as much support as other common autos, even something like a match grade 1911 barrel...within a few thousandths anyway. The Glock chamber diameter is a little larger, and that causes the bulge, not lack of support (you can see marks on the case where it's clearly in contact with the chamber, i.e. supported by it).

Neither the standard resizing die or U-die will come even close to resizing to the base of the case. In fact, they won't even get all that close to the top of the extractor groove. They'll get closer than any other dies I'm aware of, but still not all the way. I've turned down a shell holder as thin as reasonable and that gets me to within a couple of thousandths of the top of the extractor groove (works fine in even really tight chambers).

If you shoot ammo out of a Glock, then reload the brass with Dillon dies, it will normally work just fine in any other Glock. So, if he was really getting "Glocked" brass, it would normally work okay in his G17. There are some other autos out there with even more oversized chambers, and that's a likely candidate for the source because they normally won't work in anything else after resizing in standard Dillon dies. R,

[CocoBolo]

CasePro 100 takes that out and tightens the primer pocket.

Since 9 mm is Rimless (if it is 9) you could just cut the top off a sizing die and push the brass all the way thru it like the Redding Grx does in40. I think lee has something like that and maybe even in 9 mm.

I tired the U-Die, got fustrated and bought the CasePro.

Edited July 2, 2010 by CocoBolo

[anachronism]

Many times, that will com out if you size the brass on your single stage press, with the die set to barely touch the shellholder. As mentioned before, some dies have a heavy chamfer at the bottom of the die to make it easier to use on a progressive press. This of course, leaves part of the base unsized. Anyway, I've found that the early RCBS carbide dies have a minimal chamfer & have worked very well for me to size the cases base. There are also the push through dies which do an even better job.

[G-ManBart]

Since 9 mm is Rimless (if it is 9) you could just cut the top off a sizing die and push the brass all the way thru it like the Redding Grx does in40. I think lee has something like that and maybe even in 9 mm.

Won't work on 9mm because it's a tapered case. The smallest diameter of the die has to be as large as the rim, so it can't get the body of the brass at all. Case Pro really is the only way to get everything out. R,

[Tul9033]

Sorry for the late reply, I had turned auto notify on but never got the notification of responses.

I believe I have this one figured out. I am using Hornady dies and the sizing die is touching the shell plate. That ring is where the die is stopping during resizing. Never the less that does not appear to be the problem.

Apparently we have some shooters at our range shooting 9mm MAJOR and really packing the powder in the cases causing the bulge. I ordered a EGW die yesterday which hopefully will catch these pieces of brass.

I loaded over 500 rds yesterday from brass picked up at a local IDPA match (no 9mm major) and didn't have a single issue with this bulging.

Thanks for all of the replies, looks like many of you were on the right track.

Edited July 4, 2010 by Tul9033

[JimmyZip]

I had this problem and went and bought a pair of u dies from EGW, one in .40, the other 9mm.

I load mostly range brass and have found the U dies bu EGW to have stopped this exact problem with .40 and 9mm. When I get a case of brass from the range,(about 5K worth) I go through it all with the U dies right after tumbling, and reload it. None of my guns have this problem any longer. Cheap solution. Lots of extra work, but my ammo guages, and feeds fine now.

Gman is right too. some of the brass that has the worst bulging is NOT fired from Glocks. The worst ones I have found seem to come from others limited guns. I don't know why, but some of those chambers seem to be rather oval in parts. I can tell who is firing them, 'cause some of those guys give me their brass. My G17 on the other hand, leaves the brass looking rather normal after firing, and doesn't show the bulge that the 9mm open guns and others seem to leave. I think some people have been taking a polishing tip to the inside of their chambers with a dremel, not knowing what the heck they are doing.

[Ezra]

CasePro 100 takes that out and tightens the primer pocket.

Since 9 mm is Rimless (if it is 9) you could just cut the top off a sizing die and push the brass all the way thru it like the Redding Grx does in40. I think lee has something like that and maybe even in 9 mm.

I tired the U-Die, got fustrated and bought the CasePro.

I am new to the reloading and have this same problem on some of my brass. Where do I get the Case Pro ?

Thank you

Ezra

[G-ManBart]

I am new to the reloading and have this same problem on some of my brass. Where do I get the Case Pro ?

Thank you

Ezra

$617 appears to be the latest price, but I'm not sure:

http://casepro100.com/

EGW U-die ($29):

http://egw-guns.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=40&products_id=40

[SA Friday]

That is not glocked 9mm brass. That is 9mm shot from a major open gun that the chamber has been opened a little to make the feeding more reliable. Toss it or get a U die. It should load fine to minor pf after being properly sized in a U die.

It looks like your resizing die isn't adjusted properly too. It should be able to resize lower than that even if it's a Dillon or RCBS or Lee. With the shell plate full (resizing spot open) and all the other dies adjusted properly, screw the resizer down till it stops against the shell plate. Then back it off to where you can see it's not touching (or just barely touching the shell plate).

[GrumpyOne]

I am new to the reloading and have this same problem on some of my brass. Where do I get the Case Pro ?

Thank you

Ezra

$617 appears to be the latest price, but I'm not sure:

http://casepro100.com/

EGW U-die ($29):

http://egw-guns.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=40&products_id=40

IMO, $617.00 is a LOT to pay just to fix some brass....How much new 9mm brass could you buy with that, and if you even got half of it back at matches, how long would it last?

[Ezra]

I am new to the reloading and have this same problem on some of my brass. Where do I get the Case Pro ?

Thank you

Ezra

$617 appears to be the latest price, but I'm not sure:

http://casepro100.com/

EGW U-die ($29):

http://egw-guns.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=40&products_id=40

IMO, $617.00 is a LOT to pay just to fix some brass....How much new 9mm brass could you buy with that, and if you even got half of it back at matches, how long would it last?

Thank you guy's for the information! I will look into the EGW U-die the case pro 100 made my eyes

Thanks again

Ezra

[CocoBolo]

I am new to the reloading and have this same problem on some of my brass. Where do I get the Case Pro ?

Thank you

Ezra

$617 appears to be the latest price, but I'm not sure:

http://casepro100.com/

EGW U-die ($29):

http://egw-guns.com/...&products_id=40

IMO, $617.00 is a LOT to pay just to fix some brass....How much new 9mm brass could you buy with that, and if you even got half of it back at matches, how long would it last?

Grumpy - I'm out numbered here on years of expierence so I'll just have to use some old fashion logic.

Since I know all of you drop check every round take a good 9 mm round and stick it in the drop check backwards, it will fit. Next time you get one that will not fit try the same thing, you will find that the bulge is bigger than the rim so if you pushed it thru a die the size of the rim it would work. you still need to size it when loading. I did this with a Dillon 38 Super Die that I had gound the end down trying to get the bulge out. I cut the top off with my band saw and pushed my bad loaded rounds thru it, luckly none of them went bang but they drop checked, and they ran in my Sig226. Lee I think sells a Bulge Out that is their FCD die with the top cut off + a plunger to push the brass thru, and I saw another company that sells an arbor press with a similar die. You can get a arbor press at Harbor Freight for a few bucks.

You know its 9 major brass when you see lots of primers in the corn. The CasePro will tighten the primer pocket. I only use once fired brass for 9 major, if I pick up any of my own they go into the Minor 9 pool.

The wost of the 40 brass may well come from those adjustments to the feed ramp/chamber intended to make the gun feed better, I call that whipping the wrong dog, because they will feed without doing that if everything else is right. (this is specualtion have no exhibit A for proof note political lingo may well).

Is the CasePro worth it? I bought one so I'd be lying if I said no, yes, it is the only thing that tightens the primer pocket and takes the bulge out. I got it when I went open and I've been very happy with not having any ammo issues and no jams. It would be worth a lot more if I was a shooter capable of winning a major match, but a blind hog finds an acorn once in a while, I won open Division once in a local match 70+ shooters, hehe a M was second.

Just becuse it is a cost issue I will offer the no cost solution. Just run your cases thru deprime and size them then drop check. If they fail the drop check, smackem with a 5# shop hammer and throw them in the recycle bucket, I get $2.50 a pound at the local Iron yard.

And as always if it is not broke don't fix it. Your milage may vary.

[Fireant]

If you have a bunch of it Kenny at Speed Shooter Specialties offers commercial roll sizing for a penny per case plus return shipping. It's hard to beat that. You can roll 617,000 pieces of brass for the cost of a case pro and never have to pull the handle yourself.

Edited August 6, 2010 by Fireant

[GrumpyOne]

I am new to the reloading and have this same problem on some of my brass. Where do I get the Case Pro ?

Thank you

Ezra

$617 appears to be the latest price, but I'm not sure:

http://casepro100.com/

EGW U-die ($29):

http://egw-guns.com/...&products_id=40

IMO, $617.00 is a LOT to pay just to fix some brass....How much new 9mm brass could you buy with that, and if you even got half of it back at matches, how long would it last?

Just becuse it is a cost issue I will offer the no cost solution. Just run your cases thru deprime and size them then drop check. If they fail the drop check, smackem with a 5# shop hammer and throw them in the recycle bucket, I get $2.50 a pound at the local Iron yard.

And as always if it is not broke don't fix it. Your milage may vary.

Now that, I can totally agree with. Also, I want to state that I don't shoot major 9 (38 super!), so I generally don't have the same type of issues. But when I find a bad 38 super case that won't gauge after sizing, I do what Coco does, smack with a hammer, throw in the bucket. But, I also want to point out, that the only brass I've ever had to do this to was some off name brass, and it wasn't the side walls that were the problem, it was the extractor groove (it was over sized by .004 and the rounds would drop check fine, but load in the mag and they'd jam every time).

[G-ManBart]

Just want to point out that it's not that I think the Case Pro isn't worth it, it's just a big pill for a lot of people to swallow. 9mm generally needs less in the way of resizing because it's a tapered case and chambers don't have to be cut quite so oversized at the mouth to ensure feed reliability. Most of the time even a U-die isn't necessary for 9, but it will likely fix 99%+ of the problems folks experience. Used 9 Major brass is sort of it's own creature! I will note that running a couple of thousand .38SC cases through a friend's Case Pro didn't tighten all of the primer pockets....sort of surprised me. R,

[GrumpyOne]

Just want to point out that it's not that I think the Case Pro isn't worth it, it's just a big pill for a lot of people to swallow. 9mm generally needs less in the way of resizing because it's a tapered case and chambers don't have to be cut quite so oversized at the mouth to ensure feed reliability. Most of the time even a U-die isn't necessary for 9, but it will likely fix 99%+ of the problems folks experience. Used 9 Major brass is sort of it's own creature! I will note that running a couple of thousand .38SC cases through a friend's Case Pro didn't tighten all of the primer pockets....sort of surprised me. R,

Interesting....I suppose it wouldn't work with 38 super because of the semi rim? I know even 38SC has a small rim, but since super's rim is bigger....?

[SLM]

It doesn't matter if it's Major or Minor, when fired the brass is going to swell to fill it. Brass expands when the round is fired and contracts when the pressure is released, that's the elasticity of the brass. Does it come back to original size? No or we wouldn't have to resize when we reload. The contraction is minimal but it's there. The expansion due to the size of the chamber is what's of concern here.

My Open 9 Major gun was built by a very skilled, knowledgeable gunsmith and the chamber is cut tight, very tight. It does not hurt brass. I can load quality brass to Major PF using 115 grain pills at 1.175" until you can't read the headstamp any more. Then I load it again and leave it a major match.

I have some Amerc brass in the basement right now that came out of a box of "once fired" with the tell tale Glock firing pin / breech face mark that looks at least that swelled right now. Do I know for sure it's once fired? No but looking at it I'd say I'm 99% sure it is.

I'd be looking to the Production shooters running 147's over powders like Clays and N310. Super fast powders under heavy bullets shoot really soft but the pressure spike has to just be incredible. Heck, I shoot an indoor match where the only 9's being reloaded are by myself and another Open shooter. Neither one of our guns leave the raised rings around the firing pin in the primer but several factory guns shooting factory ammo do and that's usually considered one of the signs of high/over pressure rounds.

It doesn't matter Major or Minor, Open or Production. What matters is the chamber size. If you stick a small case in a big hole under high pressure, the case is going to swell.