Forgetting to engage

[HICKMAN]

I just started shooting last year and have grown to love USPSA. I consider myself pretty decent at being able to look at a stage and break it down pretty well.

Because of my size and arthritis, on larger stages, I generally try to find spots that I can move to, to engage the largest group of targets that I can, then move to the next spot.

Yesterday, I'm on the final stage and it happened to be the biggest one of the match. I basically broke it down in to three areas and set up my game plan with three spots to shoot from. I needed to engage a target in area 2 from spot three, but when I got done shooting, I realized I had forgottent to turn back and pick up the target

Needless to say I was PO'd at myself. Done right, I save a second or two, but forget and lose points for the FTE and 2 misses.

My question is, do you guys count the targets to make sure you don't miss any on really big stages?

[Pezco]

I count targets before my COF like you (primarily for a reloading point, all targets ID and shooting area ID). During the COF I only count targets by shooting area, not the total number.

[CZinSC]

I used to just concentrate on my reloads, so I would count "one, two, three...eight, reload"..."1,2,3...9, reload". This caused me to FTE a number of times, because I would walk through the COF several times, have a perfect game plan right down to the reloads, but I wouldn't be counting ALL of the targets. So if it was a COF with 28 rounds, and I walked through several times missing a whole target, or worse two, I wouldn't know it. I was essential practicing with a built in FTE!

Now, I walk the COF a few times counting ALL of the targets first. Make sure I see where they all are, THEN I go back and work on where to put my reloads.

It helps getting to the range early so I can walk the stages a few times before the "official" walk through. That way by the time my squad gets to a particular stage, I've walked it a number of times, I have a game plan ( that includes ALL of the targets...hopefully ) and all I need to do is practice that plan, instead of trying to figure one out.

My two cents.

[HICKMAN]

Good point, I need to start getting to matches earlier and looking them over before we shoot.

[BillD]

Lotsa folks missed shooting at the small plate on the left side of the COF.

[steel1212]

Yeah, count all your targets first to make sure you know where they are all at. At a local you can usually look around the props and see everything unless your blessed with a lot better bays than us I almost forgot a couple at SS nats but found them because I was counting them and couldn't come up with the total number needed.

[CocoBolo]

You should always check the stage description for the number of targets and props, just make it a habbit. While you walk the stage and make the "Plan" of attack verify your numbers. Think more about shooting on the move when the opportunity presents its self, I've beat a lot of fast runners just walking thur shooting away.

The hard ones are the ones where you cannot see everything and where you can see the same target from several places. It sure would be nice if they had a number on them. I've seen ones like this bring down GM's with 20+ years of shooting under their belt. And a few have gotten me.

The hardest skill is to visualize the stage, my camera still isn't working.

[lugnut]

Just did the same thing this weekend! 2 Misses and a FTE will basically kill you at a small local match. This was a stage where you could engage some paper target from a couple locations.

I don't usually count targets while I'm shooting at all... just where I am engaging which ones along with reloads. My problem with the above stage was I could decide where to engage a particular paper target from- there were two ways to engage it... I chose neither and screwed myself good!

It's kinda funny.. if you mentally program yourself one way.. and try to reprogram it.. even with plenty of time... sometimes you never know which program you will get!

[HICKMAN]

that's what kills me, I KNEW where they all were, even walked to my starting point reminding myself to be sure to turn around and pick up that last target, then BEEP...

[HICKMAN]

Lotsa folks missed shooting at the small plate on the left side of the COF.

i forgot the one next to the barrel Bill, shot the target right above it.

I was standing in that right corner at the end of my run and was supposed to turn around and shoot the USPSA target on the left side of the steel along the barrels... just forgot to.

[rvb]

that's what kills me, I KNEW where they all were, even walked to my starting point reminding myself to be sure to turn around and pick up that last target, then BEEP...

visualize over and over and over. Telling/reminding yourself doesnt' really engrain it in your subconscious. But repitition through visualizing it does. When you can execute the stage in your mind w/o pausing to think about what targets come next, you're ready to shoot...

while I'm not at all one to dance, or really know anything about dancing, I think of learning a stage like learning dance steps. If you have to think about what steps come next, you're gonna be behind the beat....

-rvb

[BillD]

In the mudhole, I shot great. Finished with the 3 targets on the right SHO. I missed the last shot on my last target. I see the miss, it's only 10' away and I've still got a bullet in my gun. But do I hit it again? Hell no, I ULSC like my plan said.

One bad part about burning in a plan is if for some reason the COF doesn't go to plan, you have to be able to adjust on the fly. Usually, I do pretty well at that.

Not on this COF. I had about 3 shots all day long I wanted to do over.

[rvb]

The hard ones are the ones where you cannot see everything and where you can see the same target from several places.

On stages like that, I get the target/round count from the WSB, and then go walk around the targets. Once I have found them all, then from the target's persepective, you can see all the places in the free fire zone where the target will be available. Then when I go to the start point I have an idea which targets are available and where. This helps avoids the problem of getting to the end of your first walk through thinking "wait, Is that the same target I shot over there?" It gives me more time to plan.

Just a method I came up with after a string of matches with missed targets on stages like that...

-rvb

[lugnut]

In the mudhole, I shot great. Finished with the 3 targets on the right SHO. I missed the last shot on my last target. I see the miss, it's only 10' away and I've still got a bullet in my gun. But do I hit it again? Hell no, I ULSC like my plan said.

One bad part about burning in a plan is if for some reason the COF doesn't go to plan, you have to be able to adjust on the fly. Usually, I do pretty well at that.

Not on this COF. I had about 3 shots all day long I wanted to do over.

Been there, done that! Sometimes my plan is so rigid mentally I don't make those simple adjustments and it pains me. It just like shooting- if I go too fast I don't get the good hits but finding the right speed is difficult sometimes. If I memorize the way I want to run a stage I'm not able to "adjust". That's what intrigues me about this sport!!

[mbree]

It helps getting to the range early so I can walk the stages a few times before the "official" walk through. That way by the time my squad gets to a particular stage, I've walked it a number of times, I have a game plan ( that includes ALL of the targets...hopefully ) and all I need to do is practice that plan, instead of trying to figure one out.

I am new to USPSA and was reviewing the rule book recently. I stumbled across the rule book section below, then saw the above post. Are 'early' walk throughs legitimate? I see it happens at our club level matches, but is it allowed at regional matches? I could read 8.7.3 to be live fire, but it is under 8.7, which deals with sight pictures and range inspection.

8.7 Sight Pictures and Range Inspection

8.7.3 No person is permitted to enter or move through a

course of fire without the prior approval of a Range

Officer assigned to that course of fire or the Range

Master.

[rvb]

I see the miss... But do I hit it again? Hell no, I ULSC like my plan said.

Ahh the old speed unload. why is ulsc part of your plan when it's off the clock?

One bad part about burning in a plan is if for some reason the COF doesn't go to plan, you have to be able to adjust on the fly.

adjust to solve the immediate problem, but then get back to the plan ASAP. A plan can still be flexible. IMO, the better it's burned in, the easier it is to get back into it at any point if I have a problem (mike, gun jam, mis-time a swinger, etc).

-rvb

[CZinSC]

It helps getting to the range early so I can walk the stages a few times before the "official" walk through. That way by the time my squad gets to a particular stage, I've walked it a number of times, I have a game plan ( that includes ALL of the targets...hopefully ) and all I need to do is practice that plan, instead of trying to figure one out.

I am new to USPSA and was reviewing the rule book recently. I stumbled across the rule book section below, then saw the above post. Are 'early' walk throughs legitimate? I see it happens at our club level matches, but is it allowed at regional matches? I could read 8.7.3 to be live fire, but it is under 8.7, which deals with sight pictures and range inspection.

8.7 Sight Pictures and Range Inspection

8.7.3 No person is permitted to enter or move through a

course of fire without the prior approval of a Range

Officer assigned to that course of fire or the Range

Master.

Those that have been doing this a lot longer than myself can speak to the rules of of walking through a stage prior, I can only give you my personal experience. At Area 6 this year, I was shooting on Friday so I went to the range on Thursday night. Not only were there a lot of guys walking the stages, most of the staff RO'ing the next day were there. Some of the stage designers. They were encouraging walk throughs and one even gave me what he thought the best way to run the stage was. As he being the designer, and me being relatively new...I was all ears! As for the day of shooting, guys that were shooting Saturday were walking the stages when a squad finished up. A few times when we got to a stage, guys not shooting that day were still walking through. For the most part the RO's shooed them away, but a few times I had to wait while guys were in the way. That got a little annoying.

[Pro2AInPA]

I did something similar on Saturday. 34 round (yeah I know) field course. Ended up shooting 4 alphas on one target and didn't engage the one next to it. The resultant 30 points in penalties for the two misses and one FTE cost me the division win for the match and dropped me to third.

Edited June 10, 2010 by Pro2AInPA

[TreblePlink]

Forgetting targets used to be my biggest weakness, but now I'm pretty much past that problem - during the walk through I mentally separate the targets into two groups: obvious and hidden (or likely to be bypassed.) Then I put more emphasis on visualizing the "hidden" targets - if I remember those, the rest will be easy. When I'm hearing "Standby", I thinking about my first move, but also the "hidden" targets.

I have observed a good open shooter (also a lawyer, probably lives and dies by notetaking)arrive at the match early, determine target shooting order for every stage, make very exacting notes on the stage layout sheets, and memorize those notes. For me, all the paper handling distracted from my visualization too much.

[Nik Habicht]

Count the targets? Sure, early in the walkthrough, to make sure I found 'em all. Then I decide where to shoot them from. Then from the first runthrough on, I try to burn the order into my brain. Between shooters, I visualize that order. Just before I shoot, while the stage is being reset for me, I run through it one more time, and then visualize it a couple more times waiting on the RO....

By the time the buzzer goes -- if I prepared well -- I'll remember to swing the muzzle to Area 2 from Area 3 to pick up that final target.....

Now if I didn't do that well -- that's another story. It's a skill -- but like any skill it can be learned and improved upon...

[boz1911]

For me it's required that I skip a target once a year just to remind me to count the friggin targets.......

[calishootr]

count targets??? sounds silly buuuuut YES!!!! both on the written stage description, and go walk thru the stage, we have had many a stage where you took 2 steps to your right or left and lost a target or a whole damned array!!!! a friend of mine made one that used solid walls, and the aspect changees were brutal, had morethan one person come off the stage shaking their heads because of a FTE

[Graham Smith]

The hard ones are the ones where you <snip> can see the same target from several places.

There is one match I shoot where you will see that on one or two COF every match. The problem this can create is that even if you count the number of targets you have shot, you may find on scoring that one target has no holes and another has four.

I really don't know the answer except that you have to be aware of it and decide in advance how many targets you are going to shoot from each position. Like others have said, walk, count, and plan. Make a plan, rehearse it in your head, and stick to it. I also make sure to get out there and tape targets and rehearse the plan in my head as I go. If I'm not shooting a COF, I'm thinking about shooting the COF. If I don't then I'll just lose it when the buzzer goes off.

[Corey]

count the targets/shots before hand. dont think about/count your shots as you are actually shooting (thinking is somethine to be avoided when shooting, haha). instead, maybe try to find spots in the COF to reload. its easier to remember to reload after a certain array than after a certain number of shots, especially if you need makeups anywhere.

[bobtorre]

count the targets/shots before hand. dont think about/count your shots as you are actually shooting (thinking is somethine to be avoided when shooting, haha). instead, maybe try to find spots in the COF to reload. its easier to remember to reload after a certain array than after a certain number of shots, especially if you need makeups anywhere.

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