.22 Rimfire in IDPA?

[steel1212]

How about this? I may try to arrange for a formal/informal .22LR practical match this summer. Success or failure, I'll post how it went.

That is the best statement I've seen from the other side of the discussion in this thread.....wait I already mentioned it.....still a good idea though

I vote hell yeah!! The old farts all say no. So why not, the same bunch that does not look to the future of their clubs. My kids shoot a few matches a year and 22 just makes it alot cheaper. I don't see a problem with it at a local level, but not any higher. I take out the 22s and shoot them just for fun and it cost nothing to burn thru 1,000 rds. I will admit that I don't shoot much IDPA. If it gets the kids out and off the damn video games, I am all for it.

Mike

Take them to a steel challenge match, or to Team Amish's .22 match, or start your own match. If you folks realllllly want a .22 match then put in the leg work and get a match started. Nobody says a match has to be "official" to be fun.

Edited May 16, 2010 by steel1212

[Steve J]

"old farts" - again with the epitaphs.

You "kids" need to man-up and follow the rules even at the local level.

[GmanCdp]

"old farts" - again with the epitaphs.

You "kids" need to man-up and follow the rules even at the local level.

+1 to that.........

[Steve Koski]

I think it would be "dead farts" if we're labelling them with epitaphs.

[steel1212]

The old farts all say no.

Mike

You do realize that you are older than me right.

[mjoy64]

I vote hell yeah!! The old farts all say no. So why not, the same bunch that does not look to the future of their clubs. My kids shoot a few matches a year and 22 just makes it alot cheaper. I don't see a problem with it at a local level, but not any higher. I take out the 22s and shoot them just for fun and it cost nothing to burn thru 1,000 rds. I will admit that I don't shoot much IDPA. If it gets the kids out and off the damn video games, I am all for it.

Mike

This is grossly inaccurate characterization. I've seen more than one post here implying that there is some "old fart" mentality that is choking off the sport because we don't think shooting a .22 as part of an IDPA match is a good idea. Why do people assume that kids can't shoot a 9mm or larger caliber is beyond me. We've got several junior shooters at our club and the one common denominator I see is a father who will take the time to teach their child what they'll need to know to shoot IDPA. We even have a junior girl. Here's a video of one of her stages in her very first IDPA match.

Junior IDPA Shooter

And yes... that's my daughter. Her very patient and helpful SO is none other than Steve J. Every single shooter in our club has been nothing but helpful and encouraging.

No one has suggested not to run a match that allows .22s. Go for it, let people shoot what they want, score it however you want... just call it something else. Why will calling it IDPA help the future of any club?

[ben b.]

I think it would be "dead farts" if we're labelling them with epitaphs.

Steve-O, I'm glad you grabbed that tiger by the horns, because you can't give an old leopord new stripes, and a stitch in time is worth a pound of cure.

[Steve J]

Wow, what brought on that spurt of mixed metaphors?

[VegasOPM]

I would love to be able to shoot my 617 snubbie in IDPA. It is what I carry more than anything else, so it is a lot more indicative of a handgun actually carried on a daily basis than a $2500 custom .45 or a G34 with $600 worth of add ons.

[goosedowner]

Back when my local club was putting on IDPA type shoots we had a .22 class. We ran this class first and set the poppers light enough that a hit on the top half would knock them over and the rest of the course was same as the big boys. We normally ran 6 to 8 kids and at least that many adults through the class every month. In the two years that we ran the 22 class we did NOT have ANY safety issues with any of the Jr shooters. The 22 div gave the Jr' a reason to come with Dad and we rarely ever had to ask for help pasting or resetting targets because the Jr's wanted to help.

For us it was a win-win decision.

[GForceLizard]

There was a junior shooting a .22 at a local IDPA match a couple years ago. He didn't shoot for score, and if a piece of steel didn't fall he just moved on. He had a holster and reloaded as necessary. I think it's fine for local matches to allow a junior to shoot .22 for no score, but am against a formal division.

+1 yes, there should be no problem with a junior in the squad shooting for fun, at local/non-sanctioned matches.

[Glock3422]

New shooters require extra consideration.

A match director should not be burdened by someone who may show up with less than a 9mm/.38 and expect to shoot. This may not be a big deal for your local match, but when you regularly expect over well over 60 shooters, you should not be burdened by a 22. If IDPA wants to include .22 in BUG, it can die a quiet death.

If IDPA is really about concealed, self-defense, then a 22 does not have a place in it.

[robertbank]

During the winter months we shoot what we call idpa vs IDPA with our .22 pistols. We don't care to chase our brass in the snow. It is fun and it gets us out during the wet, snowy cold season. We allow low ready starts as a lot fo the folks don't have holsters for their .22 pistols. We found we had to go to head box shots only to increase the challenge. I would also suggest if we ever go this route that a smaller target be used, With the absence of recoil getting Down Zero hits is not all that hard at typical IDPA stage distances.

Personally if it gets shooters out and encourages more to participate in our sport then why not? No harm no foul.

Take Care

Bob

[Forrest Halley]

During the winter months we shoot what we call idpa vs IDPA with our .22 pistols. We don't care to chase our brass in the snow. It is fun and it gets us out during the wet, snowy cold season. We allow low ready starts as a lot fo the folks don't have holsters for their .22 pistols. We found we had to go to head box shots only to increase the challenge. I would also suggest if we ever go this route that a smaller target be used, With the absence of recoil getting Down Zero hits is not all that hard at typical IDPA stage distances.

Personally if it gets shooters out and encourages more to participate in our sport then why not? No harm no foul.

Take Care

Bob

In response to the absence of recoil and head box only...this strikes me as a good idea. Require the .22 shooters to go all or nothing...no -1's or -3's. You hit the head or chest or -5. This is a realistic simulation of the cartridge's stopping power and steel is still knock down. Let them fire double taps at the steel if they must. No quarter.

Yes my feelings have changed about this since the last two matches I've SO'd.

[Paul Burtchell]

I vote hell yeah!! The old farts all say no. So why not, the same bunch that does not look to the future of their clubs. My kids shoot a few matches a year and 22 just makes it alot cheaper. I don't see a problem with it at a local level, but not any higher. I take out the 22s and shoot them just for fun and it cost nothing to burn thru 1,000 rds. I will admit that I don't shoot much IDPA. If it gets the kids out and off the damn video games, I am all for it.

Mike

This is grossly inaccurate characterization. I've seen more than one post here implying that there is some "old fart" mentality that is choking off the sport because we don't think shooting a .22 as part of an IDPA match is a good idea. Why do people assume that kids can't shoot a 9mm or larger caliber is beyond me. We've got several junior shooters at our club and the one common denominator I see is a father who will take the time to teach their child what they'll need to know to shoot IDPA. We even have a junior girl. Here's a video of one of her stages in her very first IDPA match.

Junior IDPA Shooter

And yes... that's my daughter. Her very patient and helpful SO is none other than Steve J. Every single shooter in our club has been nothing but helpful and encouraging.

No one has suggested not to run a match that allows .22s. Go for it, let people shoot what they want, score it however you want... just call it something else. Why will calling it IDPA help the future of any club?

Good post, Mike.

[HeadHunter]

When I was the Match Director at my old club, I used to run one match a year as a BUG match. I allowed any gun and all shooting was from Low Ready, a container, or the table so no holsters were necessary. Didn't use any poppers, five shots only per string, and all distances of seven yards or less. The only distinction I made with sub BUG calibers, e.g., .22s and .25s, was that scoring was only -0 or -5; -0 hits were scored as that and anything else was scored as a miss. Had a lot of people, including women who would never come otherwise, show up with their real carry/defense guns; J-frames, Autugua .32s, Ruger Standard Autos, etc.

Fast forward 8 years. The Match Director at my club conducted a BUG match along similar guidelines. Similar results, people showed up with J-frames, Beretta 21As, etc. It was excellent. I love to see people who would never come to a match show up for something like this. One woman drove all the way from Ohio to Georgia to shoot it.

I wouldn't do it as a steady diet but I think occasionally, as a specific event, it can have a lot of value.

[whatsupglock]

I'm all for a 22lr division. IDPA is a game. Plain and simple. We pay money to test a set of skills against our fellow shooters. That's why IDPA has classifications and divisions. Clubs rank competitors based on scores because it's a game. Large matches give out prizes and plaques and certificates for placing well because it's a game.

Shooting is getting to be a very expensive hobby. If you shoot IDPA, USPSA, Steel Challenge, GSSF and who knows how many other matches in a month, shooting larger calibers takes the price to a level on par with funding a 401k or IRA for some people. It's just too expensive. A 22lr division or multiple divisions for that matter would bring more people out to play. It's cheap fun. In turn clubs would make more money, and gun owners would get more time handling their weapons in dynamic scenarios. I have several guns that could easily take 22lr conversion kits. Police departments are opting to convert weapons to 22lr for training purposes all over the country due to high ammunition costs. It just makes cents!

I understand the arguments against this idea. Some points are valid. But shooting is dynamic, so our minds should be as well. There are solutions. If a 22lr won't knock down a popper, or activate a swinger, have a non shooting competitor pull and activator rope once the popper is engaged, or have the competitor pull it for that matter. For every argument against it, there is a way to make it work.

Let's do this thing. It works in steel challenge. Let's make it work in IDPA. It's just good old fashion fun. In my mind and my opinion this is a no brainer.

I'm an adult man. I would shoot a 22lr in IDPA if given the choice, along with my 9mm (which is a sissy round according to some), my .40 (which is a no good round according to others), and my .45 ACP (which is another inappropriate round for defense according to some). I don't feel as though I need to "man up" by shooting a larger caliber. There is room in IDPA for a 22lr division and there is room in my nightstand for a 22lr if I choose to place it there. If we are going to make the self defense argument, then let's convert our weapons to simunition, gear up, and let's shoot at each other and be done with the argument.

Edited June 6, 2010 by whatsupglock

[Steve J]

Not going to happen.

[Duane Thomas]

If we are going to make the self defense argument, then let's convert our weapons to simunition, gear up, and let's shoot at each other and be done with the argument.

We are not going to make the self-defense argument on these forums. "Real world versus match shooting" is not an appropriate topic for BrianEnos.com. If this topic begins sliding in that direction I'll have no choice but to close it down. Thanks.

[whatsupglock]

If we are going to make the self defense argument, then let's convert our weapons to simunition, gear up, and let's shoot at each other and be done with the argument.

We are not going to make the self-defense argument on these forums. "Real world versus match shooting" is not an appropriate topic for BrianEnos.com. If this topic begins sliding in that direction I'll have no choice but to close it down. Thanks.

That was my point exactly! We ARE indeed talking about a game, ie match shooting. Which is why I really do feel 22lr has a place here. The fun factor alone would make it more than worth it!

[Steve J]

Not going to happen.

I love shooting my rimfire conversion in Steel Challenge, but it has no place in IDPA or USPSA for that matter.

Go find a Steel Challenge match for your rimfire.

Edited June 7, 2010 by Steve J

[Real-Tech]

As far as deluding or dumbing down the sport, think how many ipsc/idpa guys are really good because they practice with co2 airsoft toys in their garage shooting smaller swing plates that react the same way as the "real world" targets. Oops everyone is a real world big man out on the range but home in their garage plinking with plastic is (better) than dry fire and the weight of these metal airsoft guns is very close to the real thing. Now take that into the .22 arena, Dads can take their teenagers to start there. Best memories are shooting with DaD as a kid, 'you know it' hmmmm tears flowing yet, how good would they be doing this together at an early age.

[ARLibertarian]

"People can shoot .22 in IDPA anytime they want at a local match as far as I am concerned. It just shouldn't be for score..."

Sounds fine with me. I just want my kids to start with the basics. I don't care about the competition, I just want to practice. If I could shoot my .45 and get them going on a .22 that would be great. As they get comfortable, I'd move them up.

We just started looking into working this into our schedule. If I had to buy pistols for everyone, that would be a pretty steep commitment. But if I could get them started with .22s we already have, I think it would be a perfect way to spend a few hours.

[FNFAN]

I would like to see .22's allowed alongside the regular 9-.45's Many can't afford or can't find centerfire ammo at this point. There should be no other variation in the rules i.e. the same requirements for reloads and holsters. If the little guns can't take down a steel target then they're scored accordingly.

I agree that the shooter must be up to speed on their safety and gun handling rules. It's not a "training-wheel" deal, just an opportunity to practice tactics & marksmanship at a lower cost. I also agree that it would be beneficial for the growth of IDPA.

[sbcman]

Sure bring your airsoft and BB guns to the match....I wanna see it knock over my steel. Being that their isn't a power factor, it got waived remember, I'll just calibrate it to major.....it is CDP right.

You mean BGSL steel? Yeah, I shoot 45 at around 172pf and I worry about it falling sometimes. LOL!