3-Gun rifle build plans...

[MemphisMechanic]

Sold the upper off my AR (Nothing special, del-ton m4 with a YHM handguard) with the intention of building a much higher quality unit for 3gun duty.

Current build plans:

18" White Oak DMR profile match barrel, rifle gas

Matched bolt

Smooth DPMS or Clark handguard

Miculek comp (I'm cheap) clocked and tuned for my handloads

Dpms slickside upper reciever

JP gas block or DIY equivalent

JP lightweight carrier

Unsure on spring/buffer/tube setup. Currently just standard M4 commercial stuff. Probably change that.

Now here's my big question: That's a heavy barrel, but a buddies is very accurate - under .5 MOA - and well priced. I have access to any machining needed to shave weight out of it from a very qualified individual.

If it were yours, how would you recommend going about it? Turn it down under the handguard? After the gas block? Go all the way down to pencil barrel diameter or keep it fairly thick?

He's done some beautiful fluting in the past, too... considering that pretty hard, too. ;-)

[rtr]

I would just go with an 18" JP medium weight barrel, seems to be the perfect combination of weight and accuracy for a 3gun barrel. I shoot my offhand pretty often and it balances quite well for me.

[bushmeat]

I would go with fluting. It will save weight, aid cooling and maintain rigidity.

[Dan Sierpina]

Sold the upper off my AR (Nothing special, del-ton m4 with a YHM handguard) with the intention of building a much higher quality unit for 3gun duty.

Current build plans:

18" White Oak DMR profile match barrel, rifle gas

Matched bolt

Smooth DPMS or Clark handguard

Miculek comp (I'm cheap) clocked and tuned for my handloads

Dpms slickside upper reciever

JP gas block or DIY equivalent

JP lightweight carrier

Unsure on spring/buffer/tube setup. Currently just standard M4 commercial stuff. Probably change that.

Now here's my big question: That's a heavy barrel, but a buddies is very accurate - under .5 MOA - and well priced. I have access to any machining needed to shave weight out of it from a very qualified individual.

If it were yours, how would you recommend going about it? Turn it down under the handguard? After the gas block? Go all the way down to pencil barrel diameter or keep it fairly thick?

He's done some beautiful fluting in the past, too... considering that pretty hard, too. ;-)

Save some money, and get the White Oak SPR barrel. They both are machined from Wilson Arms blanks. Or, call Jim Lambert and get a Lothar Walther 18" barrel and Firebird Micro gas block. Jim can help you set up the entire top end too.

[Graham Smith]

I've got the same problem. I built mine with a DPMS heavy contour barrel because I could get it in an 18", 1:8, rifle length gas, threaded for a compensator, and affordable. But boy I wish it was lighter!

FWIW, DPMS has a "Mini SASS" barrel that is the same length and twist, but it's fluted. But that may be a mid-length which would probably be OK as well.

[elynch2007]

If you are looking at WOA barrels, You should call them and talk to them a little. They will put any of their barrels on any of their uppers at a very good price. I got a SPR stainless barrel on their varmit upper with a Cooley comp clocked and blended for around 850 a couple years ago.

[MemphisMechanic]

I would just go with an 18" JP medium weight barrel, seems to be the perfect combination of weight and accuracy for a 3gun barrel. I shoot my offhand pretty often and it balances quite well for me.

So would I. Except it's double the price.

I'd love to have one. Even better would be for you to tell me what diameter yours is before and after the gas block, and let me copy it on a lathe.

I would go with fluting. It will save weight, aid cooling and maintain rigidity.

I'd like to flute it, mainly because of what you said... and also because it looks wicked.

Save some money, and get the White Oak SPR barrel. They both are machined from Wilson Arms blanks. Or, call Jim Lambert and get a Lothar Walther 18" barrel and Firebird Micro gas block. Jim can help you set up the entire top end too.

Hell, I think the SPR *is* the barrel I meant. Can't access their website from work. Blocked, so I was going from memory.

I've got the same problem. I built mine with a DPMS heavy contour barrel because I could get it in an 18", 1:8, rifle length gas, threaded for a compensator, and affordable. But boy I wish it was lighter!

...and that's what I want to avoid saying 6 months down the road.

[bushmeat]

BTW, since you asked about buffers: I ran a standard carbine buffer behind an 18" barrel and rifle gas and it worked pretty well. However, installed an H3 on a buddy's suggestion and got an accuracy improvement with reduced velocity spreads.

[Jadeslade]

Flute it. Freeze it. Use a lightened buffer with the lightened bolt. JP XP buffer spring. All the rest good. Carbon fiber handguard. If the barrel already cut for rifle length ok-but mid length probably more better. Best design is Sabre 50153 16" competition barrel-maybe you could try to copy that. Have fun. Good shootin'.

[zero-down]

You may want to consider picking a goal gun weight and move backwards towards the barrel profile. I picked the barrel first on my current 3 gun setup and its a little too heavy for my likes. I've been shooting a 18" stainless fully fluted w. 1/8 twist that was turned from a Douglas blank. I think its around .92 under the handguards and .750 gas port forward. Accurate as hell but the rig is a bit difficult to hold 1 handed. Balance is certainly off w/ an ACE skeleton on the backend too.

[TruePunisher]

The JP 18" barrel is .650" under the handguard, .936" at the block and .875" from the block forward.

[Phil G]

I have a 20 inch stainless steel 1/8 twist White Oak Armament Squad Designated Marksman barrel on my AR-15. The barrel weighs 41 oz and has 12 large flutes under the handguard. The barrel is a heavy profile diameter under the handguard, but according to White Oak, the flutes remove almost 1 pound of weight. It is .750 at the gas block and about .740 forward to the muzzle. I have a VTAC handguard and the rifle balances really well. The barrel is also very accurate with 55 grain, 69 grain match and 75 grain bullets. The barrels come threaded 1/2-28 for a compensator. I am very happy with the barrel weight and balance.

Phil G

[TMC]

I have a Saber Defense 20" fluted and it feels lighter than the 18" JP med weight it replaced. I think because its not as heavy at the muzzle as the JP. 20" won't slow you down on the short stuff and the extra inch gets you a bit more velocity for the same load. My .02

[gose]

I have a 20 inch stainless steel 1/8 twist White Oak Armament Squad Designated Marksman barrel on my AR-15. The barrel weighs 41 oz and has 12 large flutes under the handguard. The barrel is a heavy profile diameter under the handguard, but according to White Oak, the flutes remove almost 1 pound of weight. It is .750 at the gas block and about .740 forward to the muzzle. I have a VTAC handguard and the rifle balances really well. The barrel is also very accurate with 55 grain, 69 grain match and 75 grain bullets. The barrels come threaded 1/2-28 for a compensator. I am very happy with the barrel weight and balance.

Phil G

I have the same barrel, but I opted for a PRI CF handguard to keep the weight down. This rifle weighs about the same as my 18" JP, but balances better and I get a little extra velocity out of it...

However, the WOA SDM barrel is even more expensive than the JP ones.

[MemphisMechanic]

I have the same barrel, but I opted for a PRI CF handguard to keep the weight down. This rifle weighs about the same as my 18" JP, but balances better and I get a little extra velocity out of it...

However, the WOA SDM barrel is even more expensive than the JP ones.

That's good to hear.

Also surprised how many either run, or are familiar with WOA's products. I certainly had never heard of them. But his is accurate, and they don't cost an arm and a leg.

Looking at this...

http://www.whiteoakarmament.com/barrels.htm

...I definitely remembered the wrong acronym. I'm looking at the SPR barrel, not the SDM. The weights are virtually identical between the two - they're both 2.5something pounds - which means the fluting on the higher dollar one clearly works. Between the lower price tag and the 2" shorter length, the SPR is very attractive to me.

I should mention that the majority of our local match's targets will lie within 50 yards due to range restrictions. We don't have any bays that go beyond 100 at the moment, unless you want to scoot over to the slow-fire rifle range. So most of the local stuff is run-and-gun. Shorter and lighter will definitely come in handy. At the same time, I want to build a rifle capable of match-grade accuracy outside 200 yards should I travel to a match a state or two over... otherwise, I'd be throwing a cheap M4 pencil barrel in it.

Edited May 6, 2010 by MemphisMechanic

[Phil G]

Another factor to consider besides barrel weight/length is the type and weight of buttstock on your AR-15. It can make a big difference to the "feel" and "balance" on an AR15. Attached is a link to an interesting article on AR-15 buttstock considerations. AR-15 buttstock considerations

Phil G

[CocoBolo]

I did a lot of research on AR barrels a while back and was ready to buy a WOA. What I found out was that the StainLess steel barrels start to lose accuracy after 5K rounds. At the end of the research I determined that a chrome lined 4150 barrel will keep shooting well for 20k rounds. That said I decided that my Bushmaster Barrel is about as good as it gets. .

In our game the big thing is taming recoil so that said mid length gas system and an adjustable gas block with a light weight bolt assembly mated to the correct recoil system. A good light weight free float tube out front with good heat dissapation, because we like to light them up.

The most important item is a good optic that works for 3-gun and your style of shooting, it will do more for hits than any small difference in barrel accuracy. For me I went cheap Weaver 1-3x, I also use an EOTech for short range carbine matches. Did I say trigger JP, enough said.

A little drift but still in the realm.

[Nick S]

Check out the Nordic/Lothar 16" barrel. I don't own one but the specs shake out nice and the price isnt too bad for what you get.

http://shop.nordiccomp.com/Lilja-Nordic-AR-Rifle-Barrel-Stainless-16-BBL-223-16M-LN.htm

I do have a PRI CF tube on my rifle and love it.

[Dustin Lohof]

Check out the Nordic/Lothar 16" barrel. I don't own one but the specs shake out nice and the price isnt too bad for what you get.

http://shop.nordiccomp.com/Lilja-Nordic-AR-Rifle-Barrel-Stainless-16-BBL-223-16M-LN.htm

I do have a PRI CF tube on my rifle and love it.

Besides the obvious, 100 bucks, what's the difference between the Wilson-Nordic and the Lilja-Nordic barrels. Is the Lilja 100 bucks better?

[gose]

I did a lot of research on AR barrels a while back and was ready to buy a WOA. What I found out was that the StainLess steel barrels start to lose accuracy after 5K rounds. At the end of the research I determined that a chrome lined 4150 barrel will keep shooting well for 20k rounds. That said I decided that my Bushmaster Barrel is about as good as it gets. .

<snip>

In general, your chrome-lined barrel wont shoot as well as a match SS barrel though, so youre giving up some accuracy for longevity.

However, after 8000-ish rounds, my 18" JP SS barrel still produces < 1.5" 10 round groups at 200y. Even if the barrel gives up on me now, the cost of replacing it will be pretty minor compared to the match fees, ammo, hotels etc etc I spent to put those 8k rounds through it.

[MemphisMechanic]

Hell, both the Wilson and Lilja barrels are pretty damn attractive. And I think a 16" mid-length would be better suited for what I shoot locally.

[MemphisMechanic]

In our game the big thing is taming recoil so that said mid length gas system and an adjustable gas block with a light weight bolt assembly mated to the correct recoil system.

I thought everyone on BE fawned over the rifle-length gas... what?

And my gun already has a JP trigger in it. Why do you think I only sold my buddy the *UPPER*.

[CocoBolo]

In our game the big thing is taming recoil so that said mid length gas system and an adjustable gas block with a light weight bolt assembly mated to the correct recoil system.

I thought everyone on BE fawned over the rifle-length gas... what?

And my gun already has a JP trigger in it. Why do you think I only sold my buddy the *UPPER*.

Well great your on the way, just get something you can drive fast. Lothar Walter makes some good tubes.