Wife - Short Thumbs Help

[D.Hayden]

My wife is going to start shooting USPSA. She's having a problem with pressing the mag release (Beretta 92FS). It's a production setup, no grip changes allowed.

Can I get some ideas for her how short thumb'd people do this?

My other idea was to make the mag release from the right side, so she could press with her strong-hand index finger.

Thanks....

[lynn jones]

may be having her release the mag with her left hand? a little slower but it still works.

lynn

[Loves2Shoot]

I think you should move the mag release, to the right side, I know a couple lefty's who have no probelm doing it that way on the left side, one has his GM card. The other option is to use her weak hand but it does slow the reload down a tad.

[Garfield]

When I had a Taurus PT99, which is similar to the Beretta, I also had troubles releasing the mag with my right hand. I used my left hand thumb for a while and it went ok. I think you must be really high up in the ranks to notice the extra time this costs.

I do not know if moving the release to the right hand is allowed, as L2S suggested. For IPSC PD it certainly isn't, but I don't know USPSA rules by heart.

12-01-2004: CORRECTION:

After discussing this with the NL-RD, I learned that switching the release from one side to the other actually IS allowed, both for USPSA and IPSC, provided no modifications to the gun are needed.

Edited January 12, 2004 by Garfield

[SiG Lady]

On our slow-fire target stages the reload time doesn't matter much; but on rapid-fires I often find myself using weak hand to drop the mag and reach for the next. It takes MUCH less time to do THAT just once than to fumble repeatedly with the strong hand, take even longer doing it AND to alter the grip comfort I already have in place with the strong hand.

[Gun Geek]

I also can't reach mag releases with my thumb with out turning the gun (takes time and can get your mussle in the wrond direction). I shoot left handed partly because it is so much easier to operate the controls of the gun with the left hand.

I'm left eye dominant, and I tried shooting on the left side when I couldn't break the dominance. I'm also almost ambidextrious (better than being amphibious), so switching to the left was not that big a deal. That's when I figured out that all the controls (slide and mag release) were well placed for left handed shooting.

I operate them both with my trigger finger, which has the added bonus of making sure that my finger is off the trigger when working other controls.

SOOOOO, if you can, I would also reccommend that you move the release to the other side. I have a 92 and it kinda looks like you can.

1911's don't allow it.

Geek

[rhino]

My wife is going to start shooting USPSA. She's having a problem with pressing the mag release (Beretta 92FS). It's a production setup, no grip changes allowed.

Reversing the mag release is a good idea.

Another is using the left hand to press the mag button. It's a little slower than using your right thumb if you can reach, but sometimes if you have to flip the gun in your hand, it can be faster to use your weak hand as it moves past to go for the mag. I used to do it that way because I found that maintaining my grip with my right hand more than made up for the delay of using my left to push the button. Since I started shooting again late in 2002, somehow my hands forgot to do it and I've been flipping the gun again. It take me a lot longer to do it that way than it did my older, "slower" way.

Another option is to try a Beretta Vertek. It's a bit easier to reach the button on those, as well as the trigger. If I had a Beretta, it would be a Vertek.

[EricW]

I suppose that grinding a thumb channel into the left plastic/rubber grip and hiding the evidence with skateboard tape is an illegal, unsportsmanlike (and eminently practical) modification under USPSA rules...

[EricW]

I think you must be really high up in the ranks to notice the extra time this costs.

Actually, it's just the opposite. Switching from a Glock to an STI jumped my scores about 10-15% overall. Why? I could actually hit the mag release without totally changing my grip. You'll save 2 to 6 seconds every stage. It's the difference between a 1.5 second reload and a 3.5 second reload.

[D.Hayden]

Another option is to try a Beretta Vertek. It's a bit easier to reach the button on those, as well as the trigger. If I had a Beretta, it would be a Vertek.

I have one of those too... she can just make the button, but can't push it.

She's going to try it this weekend with the left hand, pushing the button, as her weak hand comes off, just before reaching for the next magazine.

Thanks for the ideas..

She's never done holsters, mag pouches, etc.., with loaded mags before, so Saturday will be her first real test. If this is awkward for her after practicing, we'll try a switch of the mag release.

[Guest Larry Cazes]

Dave, Tracy also hits the mag release with her weak hand as shes coming off the gun to grab a full mag. Shes not particularly strong and it seems to work very well for her.

Larry

[diehli]

If they can reach the button, but don't have the strength to push the button, methinks y'all need to change your "rituals," if you know what I mean.

[Turtle]

I do believe that the Berreta 92 mag catch is reversible, and if so that's a viable option. a good friend of mine is a lefty and has the absoute fastest reloads. I would recommend against teaching to use the left hand to release the mag though, for reasons that I won't go into. Rotating the grip so as to be able to reach the button is the way to go. With some practice, it's easily mastered. But.... it all comes down to what works for her. BTW, not to sound patronizing or anything but, It's always nice to see more female shooters out on the range, way to go!

[Turtle]

I suppose that grinding a thumb channel into the left plastic/rubber grip and hiding the evidence with skateboard tape is an illegal, unsportsmanlike (and eminently practical) modification under USPSA rules...

Yah, but a prosthetic thumb is legal, isn't it?

[ErikW]

Of all the righties I've seen/know who use the left hand to press the mag release button, none are fast. I suggest using a different method.

(BTW, I'm a grip-flipper.)

[short_round]

Hi, my name is short_round and I'm a grip-flipper.

Since short_round also equals short_finger I have difficulty reaching the button as well. However, there is one thing someone showed me a few weeks ago that I have been playing around with.

I have no idea if this is proper, but I've been working on hitting the release with my strong hand middle finger. This results in:

1) my trigger finger is way out of the trigger gaurd because it has to ride the frame of the gun.

2) the muzzle still points in the forward direction

The bad news is:

1) I had to clip a couple of coils off the release spring to make it easier to push

2) it's harder for me to turn the gun over to be able to look at the mag well

This is all with a 1911 frame.

p.s. Fast Reply rocks!

[MoNsTeR]

For me, "flipping" is totally instinctive, I've never even had to think about how to reach an unreachable mag release (and to my fingers, they're ALL unreachable). But, I tried to show my wife how to do it, and she just can't. She had the left-hand idea as well, but it just looks so slow. Maybe we'll try reversing the mag release...

[rhino]

Sometimes (especially when the grip tape on the front strap is "fresh"), the gun doesn't flip when I try to flip it. I've been in matches pressing really hard on the frame with my thumb and not being able to process why the mag wasn't falling out until I realized the button wasn't where it was supposed to be. I think I have a dent in the shape of my thumb print on my Kimber.

[Duane Thomas]

For me, "flipping" is totally instinctive, I've never even had to think about how to reach an unreachable mag release

I'm in the same camp. When I heard people complaining about how "hard" it is to get to the mag release button, I had to sit down and analyze how I've always done it, to figure out why it's so easy for me. I move my middle through little fingers to the side on the frontstrap and that "tilts" the gun inboard right into my thumb. But a lot of people seem to have an instinctive dread of "flipping" the gun. They're afraid if they don't keep a death grip on the thing at all times, they'll drop the gun. I try to explain to them I'm not really "flipping" the gun, I'm moving my hand on it, but it doesn't seem to penetrate.

BerKim, it occurs to me - no offense intended - that a Beretta 92, having as it does a grip just slightly smaller than the fat end of a baseball bat and a really forward-set trigger, is probably not the happiness choice for a small-handed female shooter on many levels. Having said that, if she's just gotta use this gun, I think you're on the right track with your idea of switching the mag button to the other side of the gun. Lisa Munson (7-time US Nationals Champion and tiny little woman with tiny little hands) has actually installed an ambidextrous mag release button to her S_I match gun so she could drop the mag with her right index finger - then ground off the button on the other side.

[D.Hayden]

Duane, thanks for the comments...

I think everyone has to move a little. I was just noticing that I have to move my hand on my Kimber to hit the mag release, and never thought about it. Good or bad, I would've said that I could reach it on my current Kimber, although on my other one, I knew I couldn't.

The 92 was the only gun she felt she could handle for now (anyone else reading - 92 = 9MM). She's tried my .40 and my Kimber, and said no thanks. Until she went to the 2 day orientation class we didn't want to buy any more equipment for her.

Now that she's done the course, and she liked it, we should look for one that fits her better. I'd like to get her a 1911 in 9mm or 40, but that's probably what I want her to have.

Any suggestions from small-handed shooters?

Thanks

[Guest Larry Cazes]

Dave, my wifes been shooting a 1911 for 8 months now and loves it. I started her off with a SIG 2340, which is chambered for .40SW. When she first started shooting the Valtro 1911 in .45acp she thought the recoil was a bit of a hinderance but now she doesn't even notice it. Her hands are tiny and the 1911 fits her so much better then the SIG.

[GrantJ]

Hi Guys

My wife has small hands and uses a Tanfoglio. A CZ works well also. The ergonomics work well for most people, I use the same and have large hands. As for the mag release, it can be altered for either left or right hand shooters.

If the release is still out of reach, try the middle finger. It leaves the trigger finger close to the trigger, but does not alter the grip significantly

Grantj

[rhino]

Now that she's done the course, and she liked it, we should look for one that fits her better. I'd like to get her a 1911 in 9mm or 40, but that's probably what I want her to have.

Any suggestions from small-handed shooters?

A 1911 with a short trigger, thin grip panels, and a flat mainspring housing works well for me. I am biased toward the 1911, but you can't do much better than that if you have small hands and/or short fingers (I am guilty of the latter).

Some other options to try:

- Kahr 9mm ... especially the target version with the longer slide and barrel

- An old S&W Model 39, or a 909 if you can find one. The 3913 is great for small hands, but it's so light that recoil and muzzle flip are an issue. A 5906 would also be a possibility, because even though it's a double stack, it's the easiest to reach the trigger of any of them other than the Browning BDM

- The single stack version of the Beretta 92

- Beretta Vertek

- Browning BDM

- SiG Sauer P225

Oh, and if you can afford one, a SiG P210 would be an awesome choice.

I would not recommend the CZ75, although a lot of people recommend it for people with small hands (I don't understand why!). I've owned one, and it has the longest reach to the trigger for any I've held other than maybe a HK USP 45 or that Mk 23 monster. I could barely work the trigger double action if I moved my grip way too far, and I couldn't reach the thumb safety with any grip. They may feel good in the hand, but working the controls is another story.

[Singlestack]

Check out the 1911 that I had built for my Wife. With the grip reduction, slim panels and short trigger it really works well for her.

[LPatterson]

Berkim,

I would check with Beretta USA to see if an extended mag release has ever been installed as an option (police department issue) on the model of Beretta your wife uses per Appendix D4 Special Condition 19. Failing that I believe LTT sells an extended mag release that is a drop-in. Better yet send the gun to LTT for a level 2 trigger job without the speed bump trigger.