Talk me out of Dillon

[Corey]

In the end it is still all about the money, you bypassed the $349 SDB in favor of the $419 550, the LNL about the same price but a lot more features. The only question is are you going to spend the $100 more to get the xl650 and find true bliss socially and in reloading. I can see you now yanking your ram on the 550 and day dreaming about a fully progressive press, thoughts of a LNL or an XL650.

From the research ive done, it appears that the total package for a "quality" 650 setup is about $300 or so more expensive than the 550 package. If it were only $100 or less, it probably wouldnt be an option. It seems to be a big jump up to the 650 which is why Im considering the 550 at the moment.

Raz-0,

great post, lots of info for me to consider.

I have seen from other forums/areas that the LNL does seem to have the 650 features for a 550-ish price tag, which brought this thread to light to begin with.

Question on "needed accessories": 650 casefeeder? necessary? silly to get a 650 w/o one? I think that is most of the cost difference I've seen with packages/options and maybe why im not looking at the 650 hard enough...

[DWFAN]

Question on "needed accessories": 650 casefeeder? necessary? silly to get a 650 w/o one? I think that is most of the cost difference I've seen with packages/options and maybe why im not looking at the 650 hard enough...

I dont have a casefeeder with my LnL. You should price everything with and without one. I have no problems keeping up with 1000-1500 rounds a month without it, but I do wish I had one and hope to get one soon if that makes sense. It allows for more concentration on other important processes than placing the next case. I do have some Cabelas rewards to spend, so casefeeder shouldnt be too far away.

[High Lord Gomer]

My biggest problem atm, is that I get 380 brass in my 9mm occasionally.

http://www.shellsorter.com/page3/380%20Shell%20Sorter%20Plate.html

I just got one and it works great!

A few of the .380 cases that are bulged more than normal might not fall all the way through, but they fall through enough to make them noticable as long as you don't put too much in at a time.

[CocoBolo]

Corey - You don't need the strong mount or the roller handle I have both use neither so you just compare the 550 and the 650 straight up base price to base price. You don't need to shop around Brian Enos has the best price and the best service. No shipping cost etc. 550 = $419 and 650 = $544 ok so its $125. You can get the case feeder later.

The 650 and the LNL are the same price with case feeder the diffence without comes because the 650 has most of the parts for the case feeding where the LNL has none all those parts come with the case feeder.

This all takes me back to the early 80's when everyone one was afraid to buy a clone and they all bought IBM PC's becuase you would never be consderdc wrong. Ok so buy a Dillon and quit quibbling about $125 for something that will last you a life time and save you a ton of money over buying ammo and 10 years later you can still get your money out of it. About the same amount as taking you wife out for dinner twice.

If you pick the LNL its is every bit as good as the XL650 functionally but socially its a step down, you won't get all your money back but a good part of it.

[Corey]

hmm, all good points. it seems to be that Dillon is an obvious run away winner...you all failed at the topic at hand,

i think when i get my tax money back (assuming i dont get screwed over there) I may have to call Brian and discuss some options for me...

[ben b.]

You can't go wrong either way, if it is 650 vs. LnL AP. I loaded on both before buying, went with LnL AP, and see strengths and weaknesses in each. The price difference between 650 and LnL is not much, and my budget allowed for either. There is no way I'd buy a 550 for pistol loading when I could get an LnL AP.

[HS101]

I went through this debate several months ago. I got my 550 from Brian:cheers:

I'm happy with my choice. I poured over all of the wisdom on these forums, and still decided to go with the 550... and I am glad I did. I originally thought "I'll only load 9mm". Now I'm loading 9 , 40 and 223. I think the flexibility of the 550 is one of its best points. I almost went with the square deal, and I could not swing the extra$$$ for the 650. All told, I am confident this was / is the best press for me.

[blue edge]

Y

Dillon is the BEST

Edited March 6, 2010 by blue edge

[Mush from PA.]

I was looking at all progressive presses a year or so ago and found this you may want to read. It helped me to decide:

http://www.comrace.ca/cmfiles/dillonLeeHornadyComparison.pdf

[trickpony]

When I first started shooting a few years ago I bought a bunch of 550's. They were great at the time but I only shot about 8000 rounds a year. When I started shooting more I sold all but one of the 550's and got 650's and 1050's. On a 650 you'll be amazed how fast 1000 rounds is in your bin ready to be case checked There's always used 650's coming up for sale here... In fact, I think I know where one is if it interests you The Square Deal B is a great press for a new loader, I just ordered one for 9mm after trying one out on 45ACP - it's a great press for the $$!! If you want to try them all out you could swing by after I get the SDB up and running and see what you like. I don't have the 550 here though, it's on my range. IMO, the 550 is great for rifle loading. Go progressive to load pistol

[WDB]

Talk you out of a Dillon, hmmmm, can't do it. Their customer service and warranty won't allow it. I had a 6 year old Square Deal and the frame cracked. Called them up and they said sorry about that , send it in and we'll get you hooked up. I was expecting a new frame and that was it. It ended up coming back with a new powder dispenser, dies, shell holder, and numerous other little parts. Granted I was not having problems with any of these things, I guess they weren't up to their standards. They included an invoice of all the parts replaced and I can tell you that by the time they paid somebody their hourly wage to rebuild it, it would have been cheaper for them to just pull one from the shelf and send me a new one, which I basically ended up with anyway. Total time down was 13 days if I remember right, and that's with 6 days worth of shipping and at least one Sunday thrown in.

[sidnal]

I've owned 2-550s and currently have a 650 and 1050. My only regret is that I didn't keep one of the 550s too.

Talk you out of a Dillon??? Not likely!

[Corey]

I was looking at all progressive presses a year or so ago and found this you may want to read. It helped me to decide:

http://www.comrace.ca/cmfiles/dillonLeeHornadyComparison.pdf

ive read that before but couldnt find it again, thx!

[benos]

... If I had it to do over, I would've bought the Dillon to start with and not spent the time and money on the Lee or Hornady I bought first.

You would not believe how many times I've heard that on the phone.

be

[Delray]

I read the PDF file referenced above when I was trying to decide on a press. I ended up buying the hornady lnl right before they moved to the ez-ject system. IMO the hornady resale is as good as the dillon (at least on eBay). The customer service has been great for me and I have received free parts (eg case retention spring and indexing fingers) when they were needed. I don't like the eject wire but I did buy a ezject retrofit kit that I will install at some point.

When I compared lnl vs 650 especially if you buy a lot calibers and the associated stuff that goes with caliber changes the Dillon was more expensive.

Have a look at the videos on YouTube for each machine, compare time to swap calibers, loading effort, etc. That could help you decide.

[Waldog]

I have posted this on other websites. But, it is usually well received. These are OPINIONS based on 45 years reloading. Please, Dillon owners, NO DEATH THREATS!!

Your question usually ignites a firestorm of of "Blue verses Red verses etc." What you are not going to find is very many people that have actually loaded on BOTH DILLON AND HORNADY. I have loaded on both. Here is my perspective:

Consider the Hornady Lock and Load Progressive. It’s cheaper than the Dillon and has several features that, IMHO are better than Dillon.

The Dillon has been on the market a long time and have great customer service, as a result, Dillon users are very dedicated to their blue presses. The Dillon's are EXCEPTIONAL presses and do an exceptional job in reloading. The competition to the Dillon is the Hornady Lock and Load Auto Progressive. Because most of the Dillon users are so satisfied, when you ask the question “Which is better?”, you get swamped with comments like, "The Hornady L-n-L is Junk!" If you asked if they have ever loaded on the L-n-L and 99.9% said no. When I did find someone that had experience with both presses, most liked the L-n-L and many had sold their Dillon's and bought the L-n-L. However, there have been those that sold their red presses and bought blue. You just have to decide what you like best. Some times it’s just the color, red or blue!!

IMHO the Dillon has one major shortcoming and, most Dillon owners will agree if they are honest. The Dillon powder measure is sorely lacking in ease of use and adjustability. It meters ball type powder very well but flake type powder less so. And, extruded stick type powder is VERY troublesome and not all that accurate. To be fair, extruded powder is difficult in all powder measures. But, the L-n-L powder measure handles all types of powder MUCH better than the Dillon. Also, it is a pain to swap out the Dillon powder measure to another die plate. As a result, many owners have several powder measures on separate die plates for changing calibers. This significantly drives UP the COST.

Also, IMHO, the Dillon priming system is less reliable than the LNL. With the Dillon system, spent primers drop through the bottom of the shell plate into a small cup. It is an “open” system and is easy to empty. However, the press gets dirty with carbon. Whenever carbon/dust/dirt or “primer dust” fouls the primer seating station this causes "flipped" or "skipped" primers. The DILLON primer system works well provided it is kept CLEAN. The Hornady L-N-L spent primers are dropped completely through the press into a plastic tube and into the trash or bottle or whatever you want to use. It is a “closed” system. You never get carbon in and around the bottom of the shell plate. The point is the dirt off the spent primers does not foul the workings of the press. I have never had a “flipped” primer. Although I have had “missed” primers that I feel were operator error (ME!) and not the fault of the primer system. (I forgot to seat the primer!) In all fairness, the LNL primer seating station will also not work properly if the primer slide is fouled with dirt or powder.

If you want a powder check system you need a press with at least five stations. The Dillon Square Deal and 550 has 4 die stations. The L-N-L has 5 stations. The Dillon 650 has 5 stations, but costs significantly more. And, the Dillon 1050 has about 7 or eight.

How the presses indexes is an issue for some people. In reading the web about "KABOOMS" (Blowing up a gun!!). Many of the kabooms I have read about were directly traced back to a manually indexing press. This is not the fault of the press but, operator error. With a manually indexing press, If you get distracted while reloading, you can easily double charge a pistol case case. (A double charge will depend on the powder you are using and the charge weight.) IMHO, a double charge is less of a problem with auto-indexing presses. The Hornady L-N-L, Dillon 650 and, Dillon Square Deal auto index. The MOST POPULAR Dillon press, the 550 is a manually indexing press. Some people prefer manual, some people prefer auto.

Next, the L-N-L uses a really slick bushing system for mounting loading dies to the press. It makes changing calipers and SNAP. After a die is adjusted for whatever you are loading you can remove the die from the press with an 1/8 turn and insert a different die. Each die has it's own bushing. The Dillon uses a die plate. The Dillon die plate costs more than L-N-L bushings. Another neat feature with the Hornady is that you can buy a bushing conversion setup and use the same bushings on your RCBS, Lyman or other single stage press and the L-N-L!

Additionally, the L-N-L seems to be built like a tank! The ram is about 2"+ in diameter and the basic press is similar in construction to the RCBS Rockchucker. I would say that a side-by-side comparison to the either the Dillon 550 OR 650, the L-N-L is at least as sturdily built. And, in some areas I think the L-N-L is better built. i.e., The massive ram, powder measure, and primer system. The head/top of the press is solid except for where the dies are inserted. The Dillon has a large cutout that is needed for their die plates. By just looking, it would seem the L-N-L would be stronger. But, of course, that may not be the case.

There is one piece that can get damaged on the L-N-L. There is a coil spring that holds the cases in the shell holder that can get crushed if you improperly change shell holders. That's the bad news. The good news is that they are only about $2-3 for three and they won't get crushed if you change shell plates correctly. The other good news is that this spring is the primary reason that while loading you can easily remove a case at any station. With the Dillon you have to remove pins in order to take a shell out of a shell plate.

You can load anything on both the Dillon and L-N-L from .25 ACP to 500 N.E. Realistically, I would say that people with progressive loaders mostly load pistol ammo 99% of the time. After using the L-N-L for while I feel confident that my Grandkids will be using when I'm gone.

In summary, the Hornady L-N-L has all the features of the Dillon 650 but is much cheaper. However, the Dillon automatic case feeder is about $50 cheaper that the Hornady. Changing calipers on the LNL is faster and cheaper. The powder measure on the L-N-L is VASTLY SUPERIOR TO THE DILLON, at least in my opinion. I bought the L-N-L and am very satisfied. A shooting buddy of mine is a long time, dedicated Dillon user. He has three! After giving me a ration of "stuff" about my choice, he came over and used my L-N-L and sheepishly said, "That's a very nice setup!!"

Edited March 26, 2010 by Waldog

[Corey]

tremendous review! thank you. I actually use the L-N-L bushing system in my Rockchucker now and love them. I also have a Hornady powder measure that I'm using and currently like very much. Ive heard the powder measure is one area that is lacking from Dillon from more than a few people. I have access to a L-N-L AP press so hopefully in the next few weeks ill be able to have some trial runs on it. I like using before I buy. Also have access to a 550 ( i know, not the same features, but it'll give me an idea, especially b/c I had been considering the 550 as the Dillon I'd get if I got one)

[earlbob]

I like the Dillon powder measure. It is accurate and has never broken that I can recall in 24 years I think it is now. The new powder measure is great. I had the first one with a little hand pull device for each charge, then the next model which did not have the linkage for the mechanical arm that ensures the bar does not stick and then the newer one which had both springs and the safety device. I never hooked that up (the mechanical arm) being hard headed and always in a hurry but the latest one has no springs so now that I have got it going I love it. As long as you seat a primer it cannot fail as far as I can tell. Anyways why would I want to talk you out of the best, I fully intend to fail by joyfully extolling the wonders of my five five ohh...model b that is!

Plus a Dillon will match the blue shirt ya got on in your Hoosier Hoser photo/icon/avatar/whatever they call em.

I recently had the threads strip out on my 45acp seating die which came with my original press and they replaced it. I bought that back when pterodactyls still flew through town now and then. The wee little kids had to run from tree to tree hoping they would get to school and not get picked off by a hungry dactyl until the day came when I had enough accurate ammo supplied by my trusty 550B to shoot em out of the sky one after another until they became extinct.

and that friends is the rest of the story.

love ya,

earl

Edited March 26, 2010 by earlbob

[benos]

I got an email this week that said only: "help me sell my LNL and I'll buy a 650 from you. i'm not kidding."

I've seen this data but I'm not sure where to find it. What is the percentage of competitive shooters at major competitions the load on Dillon equipment? I remember it being quite high, maybe 80%+.

That says (or the real data does) a lot.

be

[Corey]

I got an email this week that said only: "help me sell my LNL and I'll buy a 650 from you. i'm not kidding."

I've seen this data but I'm not sure where to find it. What is the percentage of competitive shooters at major competitions the load on Dillon equipment? I remember it being quite high, maybe 80%+.

That says (or the real data does) a lot.

be

Always a good email to get in your position, haha.

[ben b.]

Quite a few top shooters load on 1050s. The 1050 is in a completely different league from the 650 and LNL AP.

[Corey]

Quite a few top shooters load on 1050s. The 1050 is in a completely different league from the 650 and LNL AP.

1050 is gonna be out of my price range and i surely don't shoot enough to justify feeding one of those yet. maybe in a few years when i shoot more than one gun a few times a month

[Sam]

Dillon began sponsoring USPSA shooters very early on. One or two of them might actually hang out here at the forums.

Sometimes we choose a product on price alone, sometimes we choose on cool features. But a lot of us will always buy excellent Dillon products because they have always supported the sport. And this sport has been responsible for raising the bar of shooting skill far beyond what it could have ever been otherwise.

[mildot1]

Dude,

Just get the 650 with the case feeder, you'll save money in the long run. More if you sit tight and catch one on the forums used for a good price!

I started out like you just wanting to load 1 caliber (40) and now I am also loading 9mm on it. Seperate toolhead, I think I spend less than 5 mins swapping out.

I had the 550 years ago for 223 ammo, but I load a lot more pistol than I ever did rifle.

My brother has it now.

I watch him drool every time he gets around the 650.

I would about guarantee that if you buy it right($$$$) you can get your money back out of it any time you want. Try that with a LNL.

Dillon service is the best!

Mildot

[Corey]

whichever progressive press i go with will be most likely for pistol only. Ill still use my single stage for 223 when i get around to getting into 3 gun.