FFL Transfer Costs

[tripwire]

I do free transfers if someone comes to me first to see if I can beat the best price they've found. If they just call up and say they have a gun coming without giving me a chance, $15.

Scratch my back.......

That is a great policy, I wish your shop was closer.

[DWFAN]

Most shops around here are $65. When you try to talk to them they tell you there is nothing you want they can't order.

One shop charges $50 plus SALES TAX of 7%. Doesn't matter if you are buying a $3,800 used open gun from an individual. They still charge sales tax.

Fortunately my good friend and gunsmith also happens to do transfers cheap.

Isnt that illegal ? The sale didnt happen in their state, and how would they know how much you paid anyways.?

[Nik Habicht]

Most shops around here are $65. When you try to talk to them they tell you there is nothing you want they can't order.

One shop charges $50 plus SALES TAX of 7%. Doesn't matter if you are buying a $3,800 used open gun from an individual. They still charge sales tax.

Fortunately my good friend and gunsmith also happens to do transfers cheap.

Sales tax on the $50 transfer fee or sales tax on the gun? If the latter, how do they know the price?

[Hairtrigger]

I have a local shop that charges me $15 for a transfer one or more guns for that money.

He also knows I will buy powder or something from him while I am there.

[Nik Habicht]

Most shops around here are $65. When you try to talk to them they tell you there is nothing you want they can't order.

One shop charges $50 plus SALES TAX of 7%. Doesn't matter if you are buying a $3,800 used open gun from an individual. They still charge sales tax.

Fortunately my good friend and gunsmith also happens to do transfers cheap.

Isnt that illegal ? The sale didnt happen in their state, and how would they know how much you paid anyways.?

Not necessarily illegal. Most states tax codes require you to pay sales tax on all purchases of taxable goods, even those bought online and from out of state. Those purchases where no sales tax is collected at the time of sale, you're typically supposed to take care of on your income tax return....

Some years ago, professional photographers in a bunch of states got hit with sales tax bills and penalties, IIRC, after one of the big photo equipment supply houses in NYC was audited by their state's taxation division....

Ever buy a car out of state? Or privately? What happens when you go to title it? Typically you have to pay sales tax at that point (with DMV acting as the collection agent). Same principle, different execution....

[Jaxshooter]

I think I would have the shop that charges sales tax audited to see if he really sends the money in. If he does not there goes his FFL and business..I would not buy anything from a shop that charges $60.00 for a transfer. One word reason GREED.

[calishootr]

the problem with higher FFL prices, least out here on the west coast is that overthe yrs the fee forthe FFL has jumped dramitcally, from 20ish dollars per ys to somthing closer to 750, couple that with Cali's intent on removing as many FFL's(mom an pop stores and private collectors) as they can by tacking 'other' requirements, such as a legitmate storefront, business license,certificate of eligibility, and a couple more im blanking on, notto mention insurance for your business, all add's up, i know of a dealer who the FFL is just a side business for him, he does it for the gunowners, and he has to spend 3 hrs every sunday am to get all the peperwork straight

for us out here, typical fee's are 50 bucks for a gun purchased atthe store, if its the 'hey i foundthis on the internet, can i use your FFL to get it here??' that pretty much gonna be 10 percent ofthe total cost ofthe gun plus FFL paperwork fee's...

[Enthusiast]

Ok. Note to self: Don't move to California. Thanks for the heads up for those who didn't know!

It makes sense that they have to cover their fixed costs and what not, and I can't blame them for trying to make margin on something they sell themselves. I guess it just doesn't seem right to profiteer on something that they choose not to stock when I bring them a free, no trouble sale.

I guess I better keep on looking or start driving to Elgin!

Thanks for the input all.

[Alwaystryin]

There is a shop in Zion that charges 25.00 and doesn't add any BS fees to the transfer.

Its called First Class firearms. 847-246-1740

[Flexmoney]

OK, not sure why anyone would charge that much unless they aren't thinking. We charge $30 friend or foe, stranger or relative, and we are glad to do them. When I was the sales manager at a high-end retail gun store, we charged $25, and were happy to do them. In todays environment I would rather do the transfer on a Glock or M&P than sell it, because the profit is the same as the transfer with no investment. Further, if you have the transferee in your store, and you sell ammo, holsters, accessories, and he just got a new gun, that is an opportunity. It also involves a good deal of goodwill and that never hurt anyone either. SO, if the dealer won't do it for $25-$35, then find one who will.

Huge +1

Some small business aren't always good at the business part. Gun stores can be extra weird in that regard.

================

I don't know you exact location, but I went to Gun Broker and used their FFL locator service to find transfer shops near Elgin. Seemed like plenty of options ($20).

ETA: http://www.gunbroker.com/FFL/SearchForFFL.aspx?st=Zip%20Code&sv=60031

[Nik Habicht]

It makes sense that they have to cover their fixed costs and what not, and I can't blame them for trying to make margin on something they sell themselves. I guess it just doesn't seem right to profiteer on something that they choose not to stock when I bring them a free, no trouble sale.

Assuming that they're capable of really thinking things through, you can't fault the guy who tells a customer it'll be $ XX.00 per transfer --- he should know his cost of doing business. That said, if a customer's not willing or able to pay $ XX.00, there's nothing preventing the customer from looking for another FFL. That's how our economy works, right?

[Chills1994]

Just $3 down here in southern Illinois (err...South Illinois ... ) and that was supposedly just to cover the call to the state police or to NICS. My FFL transfer guy was an old guy who was/is a member of my one gun club. He has/had prostate cancer, and he might have passed on already.

[entropic]

It makes sense that they have to cover their fixed costs and what not, and I can't blame them for trying to make margin on something they sell themselves. I guess it just doesn't seem right to profiteer on something that they choose not to stock when I bring them a free, no trouble sale.

Assuming that they're capable of really thinking things through, you can't fault the guy who tells a customer it'll be $ XX.00 per transfer --- he should know his cost of doing business. That said, if a customer's not willing or able to pay $ XX.00, there's nothing preventing the customer from looking for another FFL. That's how our economy works, right?

This is true, we can always go elsewhere and pay less (or in some cases, much less). But most gun store employees/owners will agree wholeheartedly with any complaints one has about gun laws being pointless intrusions into our lives. In fact, they are usually the one to bring up the issue in my experience. But when it comes to doing an FFL transfer, they know any money they make off of doing the transfer is only because of a government regulation, and is not the mark of their cunning business sense. FFLs should be on board with the idea that the Gun Control Act wasn't meant for them to profit from, and it is hypocritical of them to overcharge for the service. My $.02

[Enthusiast]

It makes sense that they have to cover their fixed costs and what not, and I can't blame them for trying to make margin on something they sell themselves. I guess it just doesn't seem right to profiteer on something that they choose not to stock when I bring them a free, no trouble sale.

Assuming that they're capable of really thinking things through, you can't fault the guy who tells a customer it'll be $ XX.00 per transfer --- he should know his cost of doing business. That said, if a customer's not willing or able to pay $ XX.00, there's nothing preventing the customer from looking for another FFL. That's how our economy works, right?

Nik, I agree with you that his pricing is his perogative and my willingness to pay is mine. I guess my purpose for starting the thread was directed at trying to understand whether there were other reasons for rising prices other than margin padding. My sense from the posts above is not.

[Enthusiast]

OK, not sure why anyone would charge that much unless they aren't thinking. We charge $30 friend or foe, stranger or relative, and we are glad to do them. When I was the sales manager at a high-end retail gun store, we charged $25, and were happy to do them. In todays environment I would rather do the transfer on a Glock or M&P than sell it, because the profit is the same as the transfer with no investment. Further, if you have the transferee in your store, and you sell ammo, holsters, accessories, and he just got a new gun, that is an opportunity. It also involves a good deal of goodwill and that never hurt anyone either. SO, if the dealer won't do it for $25-$35, then find one who will.

Huge +1

Some small business aren't always good at the business part. Gun stores can be extra weird in that regard.

================

I don't know you exact location, but I went to Gun Broker and used their FFL locator service to find transfer shops near Elgin. Seemed like plenty of options ($20).

ETA: http://www.gunbroker.com/FFL/SearchForFFL.aspx?st=Zip%20Code&sv=60031

Thanks. Some good options there. I made the mistake of only looking at Gun Stores. Lesson learned.

[LPatterson]

I have found so many reasons to make me happy that I moved to the great state of Montana and now I can add another to the collection.

My FFL is a fellow skeet shooter and I walk into his office fill out the 4473, show him ID so he can enter it on the 4473 and walk out the door with my gun. I usually ask for a new copy of his FFL in case I want to buy another gun. I bought 2 guns from members of this board and had them shipped to him. I have a GSSF certificate gun coming from Spokane, WA. So far the cost of transferring several guns has been $50 for a handgun safety class and $75 to the Sheriff's office for the concealed carry permit. If I see a gun I want I fill out the 4473, show ID, pay and walk out the door with it.

[Chills1994]

WARNING: major thread ahead!

Does anyone here know if there is still such a thing around as the National Alliance of Stocking Gun Dealers?

At one point in time, it was rumored that this NASGD was in cahoots with the Violence Prevention Center (the Brady folks) to close the gunshow loophole.

[Corey]

One shop in town wont do a transfer on anything that they could order. the only problem with that is, they dont know the price til it gets ordered and at that point, you ant back out of it.....I dont go there, haha.

A guy I usually buy from charges $50 for a transfer, but will price match anything you bring him. If he has something in stock and its one the internet cheaper, he'll price match on the spot and get you taken care of. benefits of running a gun shop in your basement i suppose, haha ( and no, its not sketchy in any way-hes been doing it for 30 yrs, very professional setup.)

[SiG Lady]

I'm still paying $25 per transfer at our local indoor range/gun shop. I could go to a certain local pawn shop (been in business for years, totally legitimate) who charges about $10-15, but I'd rather engage in the goodwill of contributing to my local range owners who support the shooting sport and are good people, to say the least. Plus I get to schmooze with them a bit during the transaction. A couple of other local gun shops/FFLs will gladly do transfers but, last I checked, were charging $50...! Acck. Too much.

[Nik Habicht]

It makes sense that they have to cover their fixed costs and what not, and I can't blame them for trying to make margin on something they sell themselves. I guess it just doesn't seem right to profiteer on something that they choose not to stock when I bring them a free, no trouble sale.

Assuming that they're capable of really thinking things through, you can't fault the guy who tells a customer it'll be $ XX.00 per transfer --- he should know his cost of doing business. That said, if a customer's not willing or able to pay $ XX.00, there's nothing preventing the customer from looking for another FFL. That's how our economy works, right?

Nik, I agree with you that his pricing is his perogative and my willingness to pay is mine. I guess my purpose for starting the thread was directed at trying to understand whether there were other reasons for rising prices other than margin padding. My sense from the posts above is not.

The guy who's got a storefront (and perhaps employees) is always going to have a higher overhead than the guy who's working out of his house....

Even two guys with stores could have vastly different costs of doing business (i.e. what it costs to keep the doors open, the lights on, etc.) -- and a lot of those costs are fixed from month to month....

15 years ago there were two camera stores in my area that either carried or could get (on a day's or so notice) pro gear. Store one was older by about ten years, located in an expensive suburban, "Main Street" neighborhood of retail shops, charged list price for everything or pretty close to it. Store two was located in a small strip mall, charged dealer cost + some percentage between 3-100, depending on what the item was. Store one was way more expensive, and didn't deliver any better service; as a matter of fact when it came to serving professionals with information, store 1 was seriously inferior....

Yet Store 1 managed to stay in business for a very long time, longer than I would have expected -- even after all the pros in the area shifted to doing business with Store 2....

Clearly both store owners knew what they needed to charge to keep their doors open.....

I guess my point is this: It's not always about greed, sometimes it's just about what it costs to do business and return a profit to the owner. I got to know both owners, and I'd argue based on what I saw that they had pretty similar lifestyles/income brackets, derived from very different ways of doing business.....

[Enthusiast]

The guy who's got a storefront (and perhaps employees) is always going to have a higher overhead than the guy who's working out of his house....

Even two guys with stores could have vastly different costs of doing business (i.e. what it costs to keep the doors open, the lights on, etc.) -- and a lot of those costs are fixed from month to month....

15 years ago there were two camera stores in my area that either carried or could get (on a day's or so notice) pro gear. Store one was older by about ten years, located in an expensive suburban, "Main Street" neighborhood of retail shops, charged list price for everything or pretty close to it. Store two was located in a small strip mall, charged dealer cost + some percentage between 3-100, depending on what the item was. Store one was way more expensive, and didn't deliver any better service; as a matter of fact when it came to serving professionals with information, store 1 was seriously inferior....

Yet Store 1 managed to stay in business for a very long time, longer than I would have expected -- even after all the pros in the area shifted to doing business with Store 2....

Clearly both store owners knew what they needed to charge to keep their doors open.....

I guess my point is this: It's not always about greed, sometimes it's just about what it costs to do business and return a profit to the owner. I got to know both owners, and I'd argue based on what I saw that they had pretty similar lifestyles/income brackets, derived from very different ways of doing business.....

I hear what you're saying, but I still have to disagree. Professionally, I manage businesses and set pricing for what we sell, although admittedly not retail. These shops have every right to price the service as they see fit, and like others have said, we have the right to shop around. However, "Cost of doing business" is a phrase I hear thrown around all the time as if it is a blanket cost that each transaction must carry. The marginal effort and cost to provide a given service is the same to all vendors for that specific transaction. The fixed costs that they carry that are higher than their competitors must justify themselves on a stand alone basis or be changed. To your example, Shop 1 had a high traffic location that undoubtedly cost him more to rent. I'm sure the benefit to him was the increased foot traffic, especially of wannabe photo buffs who wouldn't know enough to complain, ensuring him at least enough cash flow to stay afloat.

Back to the original topic, I think that pricing FFL Tx's high is short-sighted because not factoring in the lost sales of all the add-ons and follow up business from those who shop around. I would wager that most of the shmoe's off the street are not going to be asking for a transfer, but will shop from what's on hand or ask the dealer to order it. If a customer is having an FFL tx done, they've probably already done the homework.

Regardless, I've got a couple leads on some local places that should do it on the cheap, so I'm significantly happier about the whole situation than when I'd posted originally. Now, I just have to find a gun I want at a price I can afford (including the transfer cost of course).

[ninefan]

This is one of the reasons that I think it is good that we have a bunch of small FFL holders operating out of their homes or garages. They can handle routine transfers like this without forcing you into a gun store. Generally they are closer to home anyway. This doesn't seem to keep the prices down at most of the gun stores, so I assume that the only people who do transfers at those places are the ones that don't know about the small-time FFL holders that are out there.

Like someone else said, you can usually find lists of these people in your area from Gunbroker, Midway, Brownells, CheaperThanDirt, etc. Some of them also hang out on local firearms forums if you just post and ask who does transfers in the area. I would say that $10-15 is the normal charge for a home-based FFL holder.

[Lee King]

Isnt that illegal ? The sale didnt happen in their state, and how would they know how much you paid anyways.?

It is highly suspect. But it's advertised on their website. This is the same gun shop who sends out all their employees every morning to all of the area wal-marts to buy up all of the ammo and double the price (confirmed, not rumor).

I think it's only illegal if they claim a tax and don't actually give it to the gub'ment.

Sales tax on the $50 transfer fee or sales tax on the gun? If the latter, how do they know the price?

Sales tax on the item. A friend bought a JP rifle with all the bells and whistles from an individual from Enos (out of state or it wouldn't be an issue). The total sale was around $4,500 with optics, hard case, bi-pod etc. etc. They were charging sales tax on the full $4,500. Which makes NO sense because 1) it was out of state and 2) it was a used gun from an individual. If it were in-state money would just change hands and done. With that policy the $60 from other stores suddenly doesn't seem so bad.

I've heard (just rumor) the gun shop had a run in with ATF and ATF insisted on the sales tax. But I'm not sure they have any real authority to do that.

I can kinda get where they want to charge a steep fee to transfer a gun they could sell you. They have overhead, inventory, and tax considerations if they don't move their own stuff. But I don't get the attitude "you can't want anything we can't get for you". I bet if you did a poll for Limited and Open pistols as to how many were custom it would be a very significant number. Get into some of the rimfire and high power rifle competition guns and it's just not something you're going to see on a distributor list.

[Nik Habicht]

I'm still curious how they know what the item costs....

[T.McDevitt]

One shop in town wont do a transfer on anything that they could order. the only problem with that is, they dont know the price til it gets ordered and at that point, you ant back out of it.....I dont go there, haha.

A guy I usually buy from charges $50 for a transfer, but will price match anything you bring him. If he has something in stock and its one the internet cheaper, he'll price match on the spot and get you taken care of. benefits of running a gun shop in your basement i suppose, haha ( and no, its not sketchy in any way-hes been doing it for 30 yrs, very professional setup.)

Most of the shooters at our local clubs 3-4 clubs make it a point to use local shooters that do transfers for $20 AND will not use anyone who charges more than $20 one of the local gun shops can't seem to figure out why no one uses his service anymore he charges $50. They also charge 36.00 1K --for Fed/S/Pistol primers. I just purchased same Fed/S/Pistol in February for $23.00 and I had never done any business with this store before, but I'm sure they made money. Think there is a possibility we are getting gouged