Welding 1911 Lower Lugs

[01G8R]

I have an Ultimatch barrel that has a tungsten sleeve that I got used. I am currently running it in my limited gun, but it was not originally fit for my gun. It is riding up on one lower lug. I want to Tig weld the lower lugs and refit to my gun. Can anyone tell me what would be a good setup to ensure that I don't overheat the barrel? I've read that some pack and encase the barrel in mud to act as a heat sink. I plan to pre and post heat the barrel. Is ER410 the appropriate rod for the Schuemann 416R stainless? Buying a new barrel is not an option right now. My time to weld and refit is free. Thanks.

[DougCarden]

Jim Anglin from Sailor's Custom Pistols would be my go to guy for help. He does a lot of welding work, and would know how to get you set up. I am away from my desk and dont have his info, but do a search and you should be able to find him and send him a PM here.

Good luck,

DougC

[benny hill]

You can tig them up & recut, but it may be to soft & wear fast.

[mike cyrwus]

google-fu

Welding

Grade 416 has poor weldability. If welding is necessary use Grade 410 low hydrogen electrodes. Pre-heat to 200-300°C. Follow immediately with annealing or re-hardening, or a stress relief at 650-675°C.

A better option if the weld is not required to be hard is to use a Grade 309 austenitic stainless steel filler rod

[wide45]

Use music wire for filler rod. It will turn out hard enough to wear well. There is no reason it needs to be stainless.

You should not need to add much. Don't overdo it, and you won't be putting a lot of heat into it. Skip the pre, and post heat.

Works on carbon steel. Have not yet done a stainless barrel.

Edited February 15, 2010 by wide45

[jjanglin]

Thanks Doug!!!!!

Jim/Pa

Sailors

[SLM]

Lower lugs might be different but I contacted George at EGW about welding up a feedramp on 416R barrel and he said it couldn't be done. Can't make it stick, at least not on the ramp. Maybe there isn't enough of a load on the lower lugs to worry about though. Just passing on what I was told by one of the people that is often considered the "go to" guy for gun welding.

Good luck! I hope you can get it fixed up!

[mrmetalweld57]

I would think you could use a mig welder, .023 diameter wire, 309lsi grade wire, 95/5 argon/co2 mixture,at somewhere around 14 volts. this wouldn't put hardly any heat in there barrel. Pulse the trigger with alot of time between pulses. Ed

[want2race]

Instead of welding, you can use a sleeve. Acts as a shim between slide stop pin and lower lugs. I used a .250" OD, .200" ID SS tube. Bore out link for the .250" diameter. I modified 3 different length links. Fit the right one. You can pin the sleeve in place, but I've been running mine without it. The frame keeps the sleeve from going anywhere. I did this to an old GI barrel. Locks up super snug now.

[ParaGunner]

Instead of welding, you can use a sleeve. Acts as a shim between slide stop pin and lower lugs. I used a .250" OD, .200" ID SS tube. Bore out link for the .250" diameter. I modified 3 different length links. Fit the right one. You can pin the sleeve in place, but I've been running mine without it. The frame keeps the sleeve from going anywhere. I did this to an old GI barrel. Locks up super snug now.

That sounds like a great idea! Where did you get the stainless steel tube or was it custom made by you? I have a pistol I would like to try this on.

[want2race]

To make the sleeve I used a AVIBANK 4R2.50 push button retaining pin. The SS shaft is hollow and the outside diameter was correct. After cutting the outside shaft, removing the push button head and the center shaft, I had to drill out the center to .200". Since there was already a hole it easy enough to drill out on my drill press and maintain some form of accuracy.

Once you have a cylinder of the right OD and ID, and the proper length Link drilled out (I drilled out 3, 4, and 5 links so that I could use any of them), The sleeve will have to be shaped to fit into the frame. Easy to see when you try to install it into the frame, it won't fit. The bottom of the sleeve, in relation to the bore as installed in the gun, will have to be thinned down to the width of the link itself. The top will be the width of the barrel lugs. In STI frames this is not needed, but in Colt SS frames it is. In an STI frame you can leave the sleave a cylinder.

If you want to pin it in place, pin it in the middle so that when the link pin and slide stop pin are in place it will trap the pin.

Edited February 18, 2010 by want2race

[ParaGunner]

Great info! Thanks

[ParaGunner]

Has any one ever tried JB weld to build up the lower lugs?

[Matt Cheely]

Has any one ever tried JB weld to build up the lower lugs?

Please tell me you're joking.

[ParaGunner]

Has any one ever tried JB weld to build up the lower lugs?

Please tell me you're joking.

I have never used Jb weld and don't much about it except what the package says. It says it can be used on engine blocks and has a tensil strenth of like 4000psi. So it will not work?

Edited February 18, 2010 by KING 45ACP

[want2race]

I've used JBWeld to add material and recontour the intake track of a ZX-6R to gain intake velocity. If weld won't stick to the lower lugs, I don't think JB would either.

[Matt Cheely]

And how fast were you riding that 600 to need that?

[want2race]

600cc and 750cc Am Champion...

[jjanglin]

Dont use Jb weld or any other stuff like it on your lower lugs.

I use stainless Tig on stainless barrels.

Make sure you have a link pin in place so you dont collapse the lug.

I have a piece of brass cut to fit insde the barrel.

I have a container of water close by to dunk the barrel when done.

I also wrap the barrel with a water soaked piece of shop towel.While welding

Find someone who can weld small parts to do it, .

Go slow real slow.

Jim/Pa

Sailors

[01G8R]

Jim

Thanks for the info. I'll let everyone know how it turns out.

[DJM3808]

After reading this thread I decided to give it a try on a 1980s Colt LW Commander that was never fitted correctly. It was long linked from the factory, the lugs never touched a slide stop pin.

I used a tig welder with 308 stainless filler rod and made a few practice runs on a piece of 1/8 thick mild steel.

With the barrel clamped upside down and starting on the area closest to the barrel, welding towards the breach end of the barrel I came over the top of the link pin hole and watched as the tip of the lug collapsed. Wasn't paying enough attention to heat so I had to let it cool a minute and build that area back up. Should have made a few more practice runs and maybe welded on a sharp corner to better simulate a 1911 barrel lug

The lug on the other side was a little smoother and I remembered to let off of the foot pedal amperage control.

After welding I cleaned up what I could on a small lathe, then some filing to remove excess material. Then used a Brownells lug cutter to start fitting for the slide stop pin. The stainless build up cuts a little harder I think than what I remember on new barrels so maybe it would hold up for wear.

As of right now some of the areas I built up are not cleaning up real nice so before I go any further I'm going to re-weld the spots that are lacking and sort of start over, I have about 5 hours in it so far.

The advice from Jim was great, the pin hole would have collapsed real quick without a pin and the wet towel and water can saved what was going to turn in to disaster.

Just so you know, I'm not a gunsmith, I used to be a welder. I thought the gun needed a barrel anyway so what's the harm in trying. If I mess it up I go back to plan A (get someone who knows what their doing) but with a little more experience.

I'll let you all know how it turns out.