Please Help! Legal issue!

[ZombieKiller]

Okay so I didnt know where else to post this so hear goes. I am legally a Florida resident but I am a full time student in Virginia. I ordered a shotgun on gunbroker and had it shipped to my FFL here in VA. According to my understanding, All i have to do is comply with both florida and virginia state laws to acquire the weapon, but upon showing my florida driver's license, all sorts of issues arose (this is not my usual FFL). I was told that I could not get the gun for the following reasons: 1) I have not had my feet on virginia soil for 90 straight days... I went home to FL for Christmas break... 2) Since i am a full time college student in VA, I am legally a VA resident and need to show VA govt issued ID.

So the questions I have are: 1) Where does it state this anywhere? the only place I can find anything about 90 days in state is for immigrants. I am def not an Immigrant. 2) where does it state that as a full time student, I am a VA resident? I am almost positive I am still a FL resident legally. There is not way I am going to have any official documents stating I am a resident here, because, I am, in fact, a florida resident. (I have a Drivers license there, I am taxed there, etc...)

Please help... I am looking for clarification and legal documentation to fight back

PS: read virginia 18.2-308.2:2 section C with Section B.5 her: http://leg1.state.va.us/000/cod/18.2-308.2C2.HTM

Edited February 13, 2010 by ZombieKiller

[G-ManBart]

One of the things I'd point out is whether you pay in-state or out-of-state tuition...if that applies.

[Duane Thomas]

I moved this to the Legal area, wasn't sure if that was where it belonged, so I moved it back.

[Alan550]

To answer the OP, here's the specific language from the site you referenced:

5. Notwithstanding any other provisions of this section, rifles and shotguns may be purchased by persons who are citizens of the United States or persons lawfully admitted for permanent residence but residents of other states under the terms of subsections A and B upon furnishing the dealer with proof of citizenship or status as a person lawfully admitted for permanent residence and one photo-identification form issued by a governmental agency of the person's state of residence and one other form of identification determined to be acceptable by the Department of Criminal Justice Services.

6. For the purposes of this subsection, the phrase "dealer's next business day" shall not include December 25.

C. No dealer shall sell, rent, trade or transfer from his inventory any firearm, except when the transaction involves a rifle or a shotgun and can be accomplished pursuant to the provisions of subdivision B 5 to any person who is not a resident of Virginia unless he has first obtained from the Department of State Police a report indicating that a search of all available criminal history record information has not disclosed that the person is prohibited from possessing or transporting a firearm under state or federal law. The dealer shall obtain the required report by mailing or delivering the written consent form required under subsection A to the State Police within 24 hours of its execution. If the dealer has complied with the provisions of this subsection and has not received the required report from the State Police within 10 days from the date the written consent form was mailed to the Department of State Police, he shall not be deemed in violation of this section for thereafter completing the sale or transfer.

That would indicate that all you have to do is prove citizenship and pass the background (NICS) check.

Alan~^~

[Carmoney]

Yeah. Shouldn't be a problem on a long gun.

[Kevin Spencer]

It looks to me like you are citing State Law. The dealer is going to operate under Federal law. Federal & State Firearms laws are not always the same. The ATF regulates the FFL Holder and as I understand the Federal law, you are not eligible to purchase a shotgun or rifle if you are still claiming Florida residency. You state you are "legally a Florida Resident" and as I understand Federal Law, you can not purchase a shotgun or rifle unless the state touches the state of florida. As an example, you could purchase the shotgun from a dealer in Georgia because it touches.

Also remember, the dealer does not have to do the transfer for you. And at this point, they are probably going to be very reluctant to become involved. Its not worth problems that could arise from their prospective. There are a lot of civil and criminal penalties that could apply to them.

I would suggest you have the firearm shipped back to the original dealer and then have them re ship to a FFL in Florida. You will have to go to Florida to pick up the firearm.

Kevin

[Joe4d]

VA code 23-7.4

Mere physical presence or residence primarily for educational purposes shall not confer domiciliary status.

Basically if your are paying taxes and or being listed as a dependent in Florida as well as keeping Florida ID you are a Florida resident.

There is an exception for Active Military stationed in VA but I didnt see any exception for college students.

[ZombieKiller]

Thanks guys! this helped alot. esp Joe4d

[Sam]

I'd move some place west of the Mississippi River and east of Kali.

The quicker the better.

[EkuJustice]

Federally you can purchase a long gun as long as both states requirements are met. There is no touching state requirement

[Flatland Shooter]

I'd move some place west of the Mississippi River and east of Kali.

The quicker the better.

Even that don't help all the time. When I was a full time resident in Oklahoma, I found a nice rifle to add to my collection. Unfortunately it was in Texas. The FFL would not sell a long gun to a non-resident. "That's the law!"

After moving to Texas, I found another nice long arm to add to my collection in Oklahoma. No sales to non-residents. "That's the law!"

Its either a case where these two do not know "the law" or they just don't want to mess with out of state buyers.

Bill

[bdo]

I ran into a similar problem. I'm a Texas resident with a Texas DL/CHL, and I go to school in Florida. I wanted to get some of my rifles from home shipped to an FFL here since I wasn't going to go back home for a while. All the dealers here refused to do the transfer.

[Carmoney]

Some of those gun dealers out there must not be capable of reading. (Perhaps that's not too surprising, from the looks of some of the dealers I see at gun shows!)

I've held an FFL since 1993. I'm also an attorney.

Under 18 USC 922, a licensee may transfer a rifle or shotgun to a person who is not a resident of the State where the licensee’s business premises is located in an over-the-counter transaction, provided the transaction complies with State law in the State where the licensee is located and in the State where the purchaser resides.

Not handguns. Not frames or receivers. But long guns--no problem.

Edited February 13, 2010 by Carmoney

[bdo]

This might sound a little dumb , but can I write a letter to the state AG of my home state (TX) and the state I am presently in (FL) to see if any state statutes prohibit this transfer?

I know people write to the ATF for legal clarification of federal law. I just don't know if the same would apply if I wrote the state AG for state law.

ETA: I didn't mean to hi-jack the thread. I just figured if this way would work, it might provide a solution to the OP (and me).

Edited February 14, 2010 by bdo

[Joe4d]

Its not a matter of right or wrong, the dealers are free to not do the transfer.

[Aglifter]

This might sound a little dumb , but can I write a letter to the state AG of my home state (TX) and the state I am presently in (FL) to see if any state statutes prohibit this transfer?

I know people write to the ATF for legal clarification of federal law. I just don't know if the same would apply if I wrote the state AG for state law.

ETA: I didn't mean to hi-jack the thread. I just figured if this way would work, it might provide a solution to the OP (and me).

TX, for awhile, had a screwy law which only permitted Texans to buy long-arms in adjoining states. TMK, it has since been repealed.

[bdo]

Its not a matter of right or wrong, the dealers are free to not do the transfer.

I agree.

However, I feel if the dealer had the peace of mind the transaction he was about to complete was legal under both state and federal laws he would be more inclined to do it for the easy 30 dollars or what not.

This might sound a little dumb , but can I write a letter to the state AG of my home state (TX) and the state I am presently in (FL) to see if any state statutes prohibit this transfer?

I know people write to the ATF for legal clarification of federal law. I just don't know if the same would apply if I wrote the state AG for state law.

ETA: I didn't mean to hi-jack the thread. I just figured if this way would work, it might provide a solution to the OP (and me).

TX, for awhile, had a screwy law which only permitted Texans to buy long-arms in adjoining states. TMK, it has since been repealed.

From what I understand, that law stated it was permitted for Texans to buy long arms in adjoining states, but did not PROHIBIT Texans from buying a long arm in a distant state. I think it has since been repealed as well, so it probably does not matter now. Then again, I'm not a lawyer and I don't play one on TV.

[EkuJustice]

Or just get a state ID for the state you are in, not a drivers license, just a state id

[Kevin Spencer]

Or just get a state ID for the state you are in, not a drivers license, just a state id

Trying to circumvent the law, can lead to jail time. You might get away with it some of the time but it only takes once to ruin your life. Is it really worth it????

Kevin

[Carmoney]

You can have two states of residence. In fact, the instructions to Form 4473 say that a person who is a resident of more than one state should enter his current address on the Form. Here's the example they give: "If you are buying a firearm while staying at your weekend home in State X, you should list your address in State X in response to question 2." So acquiring a state ID in Virginia might be a perfectly viable solution to the problem of having chosen an ignorant and obstinate dealer.

[spanky]

I ran into a similar problem. I'm a Texas resident with a Texas DL/CHL, and I go to school in Florida. I wanted to get some of my rifles from home shipped to an FFL here since I wasn't going to go back home for a while. All the dealers here refused to do the transfer.

FYI, you can ship personally owned firearms to yourself at your doorstep.

[bdo]

You can have two states of residence. In fact, the instructions to Form 4473 say that a person who is a resident of more than one state should enter his current address on the Form. Here's the example they give: "If you are buying a firearm while staying at your weekend home in State X, you should list your address in State X in response to question 2." So acquiring a state ID in Virginia might be a perfectly viable solution to the problem of having chosen an ignorant and obstinate dealer.

I tried getting my Florida ID last week, but they told me I had to surrender my Texas DL to get it because of some new law change not allowing the two states of residence. They told me it was all or nothing and that they didn't give Florida IDs to out of state students anymore.

I ran into a similar problem. I'm a Texas resident with a Texas DL/CHL, and I go to school in Florida. I wanted to get some of my rifles from home shipped to an FFL here since I wasn't going to go back home for a while. All the dealers here refused to do the transfer.

FYI, you can ship personally owned firearms to yourself at your doorstep.

I understand that, but like I said in my post (not very clearly ) I wasn't sure of when I was going to go back home again to do so. I am pretty sure I have to be the one shipping it to make it legal.

Edited February 14, 2010 by bdo

[spanky]

You don't have to be the one to do the actual shipping.

[twodownzero]

I ran into a similar problem. I'm a Texas resident with a Texas DL/CHL, and I go to school in Florida. I wanted to get some of my rifles from home shipped to an FFL here since I wasn't going to go back home for a while. All the dealers here refused to do the transfer.

You don't need to have them transferred. They can be mailed directly to you; you already own them.

[twodownzero]

I understand that, but like I said in my post (not very clearly ) I wasn't sure of when I was going to go back home again to do so. I am pretty sure I have to be the one shipping it to make it legal.

Absolutely not. They can be mailed to you like any other piece of property. Mailing of long guns other than SBRs, SBS, etc. is unregulated.

This might sound a little dumb , but can I write a letter to the state AG of my home state (TX) and the state I am presently in (FL) to see if any state statutes prohibit this transfer?

I know people write to the ATF for legal clarification of federal law. I just don't know if the same would apply if I wrote the state AG for state law.

ETA: I didn't mean to hi-jack the thread. I just figured if this way would work, it might provide a solution to the OP (and me).

That's actually quite common. It might be a good idea.

Edited February 14, 2010 by twodownzero