Irishlad

28 takes a little more "care/time" in reloading than a 12. Probably true for any loading machine since everything is "smaller", i.e. shot bridging, wad entry, etc. Crimps "vary" more than 12 gauge. The MEC has two "quirks", one of which you are experiencing. There is an adjustment to "prevent" the inadvertent shot/powder drop. It's in the manual or you can call MEC, but you basically bend down the tab where the control arm runs through to activate the "catch" lever. But, it's not precise and can wear in time, a lot of shells. The "surefire" way is to adjust so it works, or not, and hold the lever up with your right hand while cycling the machine with your left hand. If you load 100 shells, you have to do this 4 times, I believe. Sounds "rinky dink", but it's "small potato stuff". Regardless of what machine you buy, I'd recommend the AA hull, adjust the machine for it and your "load", then never touch it after that. Good luck.

All progressives, to my knowledge, must have that feature. It's only needed when you start and finish, unless your loading one shell at a time.

I'm paying double for a bag of shot compared to two years ago. Bullets up 30-40% in the same time period...off the top of my head. As I understand it 70-75% of the lead that is mined goes to batteries, car batteries in particular. Also, they didn't mine enough lead for the demand. Don't they remove the lead in old batteries? I would have guessed car batteries to have a high percentage of recycling.

On a 45, I have about 40,000 using the same extractor. Seems like a "no-brainer" to me. I suspect "other" reasons(problems) can cause extractor issue. Mag, feed ramp not allowing proper pickup, etc...don't know. I haven't "read" great things about the Power extractor on this forum, where people actually shoot their guns a fair amount. On the Glocks, CZs, etc what is the realistic "life span" of the external extractor?

Good time to consider 1 oz or 7/8 oz loads for 12 gauge. Save a fair amount per shell compared to 1 1/8. I've "read", or maybe it was wishful thinking, that lead prices are likely to come down as the price is reaching "maximum" for manufacturers...since over 70% of the lead goes to batteries. Translated, I believe they are going to increase the supply of lead. I get the impression they just didn't produce enough lead for the sales...meaning they "forecasted" the demand improperly. I'm debating whether to wait to buy lead or not. Not sure what to do. I think it's getting to the point where shooting will be reduced if this continues.

Detachable triggers are nice, but not the "fix" because if you are in the Olympics, and your gun breaks, you have 3 minutes to "fix it" or you shoot on a different squad and lose a "target". Meaning, the detachable is good if you break a trigger component. If you break a firing pin you are out of luck. So, bring two identical guns. The DT(box-lock) has a lot more handwork done than the 682. It's exterior "look" and barrel lockup is similar to their "hand built" SO series(side-locks) which retail for $15,000 I believe...that's the plain grade. The DT which used to be the "ASE90" was their answer to the Perazzi in quality and price. Several steps above the 682, but much cheaper than their hand built SO series. You would notice the difference between the two in "fit and finish" without question. The DT or any high-end should/will go more rounds before a rebuild. Reliability should be the same for a certain amount of rounds. You won't break any more targets with a DT than a 682 given equal fit and balance. Similar to any sport, the truly "committed" , that spend a great deal of time, money, targets, shooting, etc begin to appreciate the finer "tools" of the sport. Some are real and some imagined, i.e. marketing, promotion, etc. But, there are differences that may or may not be worth the money. Google Clayshooting magazine and go to the English version and read through the gun tests. Probably some of the best "gun-tests" I've read from a competitor perspective. As always, just IMHO.

Good deal. It's the right time of year for any new book or video as a 'present' instead of that tie or sweater you really didn't need anyway.

Aside from the reasons mentioned above, one reason O/Us have jumped in price is the devaluation of the dollar. Most of all the "highend" O/Us come from Europe. I believe the dollar has lost almost 35% of it's value in the last 3 years alone. That's a lot on big ticket items and adds up quick. The $500 O/Us are a relatively new "line" that's come into the country. I've only handled them, but I am completely confident they won't hold up to even a modest amount of shooting in competition. Could be wrong...but! For competition, it would be like buying a "highpoint" to compete in production class IMHO. It will fire, but how effective and for how long you can probably guess. Historically from "memory", the plain grade high end guns like Perazzi/kreighoff were 3 times the price of the high quality machine made shotguns form Browing and Beretta...give or take. From my experience, I would expect the Browning/Beretta to be as reliable as the highend, but need rebuilding sooner...after 50,000-100,000 rounds(maybe) and spending a third less than the highends. Service levels and options are substantial for the highend and generally poor for the mass produced IMO...big surprise. Perazzi is particulary good and Kreighoff is, well...German so they will do what they want!! Browning/Beretta "grab you" when they go from hunting models to Sporting/skeet/trap, etc. For Browning the same "action" gun can vary $800- $1,000 because of a different stock design, some choke tubes, and a "name". That's marketing and the "American way". I'd do the same. Same for Beretta, but they have some "design" differences between their old 686/682 receivers, etc so the price can double. And double again for their "semi-custom" DT line of shotguns. And more than double again for their "hand built" SO series. I "bet" they use CNC machines for much of the operations on the expensive lines also. One more point to consider; profit margins are high on highend guns because they don't sell many. They need that to survive with low numbers. No different than the semi-custom handgun makers. Sorry, that was long.

Maybe EGW, for example, would produce a "fat "internal extractor that fits the Power extractor hole...if there's enough "call".

If they work, I think they will sell lot's of them. In my area, you can't 'touch' a production 1911 with adjustable sights under @ $850 and if you want a 1911 without FP safeties, external extractors, etc your choices really slim down at any price under $1200. With the 1911 market growing so rapidly, more choices are a good thing!

Tough call, but if it were me, I'd reconcile the fact that it's a shooting sport that caters to people that enjoy shooting and probably will shoot a lot. At least, that's the intention and purpose of shooting organizations. A lot of handguns, IMHO, are not really designed for volumes of comfortable and "easy" shooting. They are more than fine for probably 90% of their customers that probably won't shoot in a lifetime what a moderate "sport shooter" will shoot in a year or two. So, "minor" modification that make shooting more pleasant for the individual should be allowed. Some shooter's hands won't need any mods, others might need some rounding/filing here and there, some more traction, better sights(older eyes), etc. As long as it doesn't change the "nature" of the gun, i.e trying to make a non-SA handgun close to or the same as a gun that's not allowed in the division. Slicking up the trigger is different than changing the amount of trigger travel and reset...allow too much of that and you have to question why SA guns can't play. Beginners should be able to buy a gun out of the gunshop and compete. As they progress, ie. shoot more, they can make minor mods that enhance their experence...or not! Allowing "box-stock" guns only means, possibly, waiting for a manufacturer to come out with a "better" gun. Great...that means if I want a easier, more comfortable gun to shoot, I have to buy another one. No point to make here...just some random thoughts.

Remember, there is lead residue in shotgun shells. I'm not sure you want that in a dishwasher where your eating "stuff" goes. Just a thought.

The only time I have ever cleaned a shotgun hull is when it had dried mud on it from a bag of "pickups". I lasted about 4 hulls and then tossed them. So, barring that condition...thankfully, no need to clean them. I'm "waiting" for plastic handgun casings so I don't have to clean them either.

Why would some be small primers? Are they trying to "move" everything into a one size primer for all/most calibers? Doesn't that alter the reloading "specs"? That's probably enough questions...sorry.

Bird_Dog0347, Was your thumb safety "on/up" when the gun went tumbling?

Ha, I wouldn't spend any more money on "materials", just go "down the road" and really learn.

That's a good question as to whether it will cycle 7/8 oz loads at lower velocities. I don't think you will gain much in recoil reduction with a 7/8(24 gram) load at 1290 compared to a 1 oz(28 gram) at 1200. As mentioned by JD45, you might try the 1 oz at 1150- since you are "set-up" for it. Just don't make many shells... just in case. If not to your liking, then try 7/8 oz starting at 1290 down to 1200, perhaps. See if they cycle and you like the way they shoot. If none of those work, since they are at the "low-end" scale of 12 gauge recoil, I'd would start to "investigate" where/when the recoil is bothering you, i.e. shoulder, face, stock doesn't fit, etc. "When" means are you sore after 10 shots or 100? The "fit" could really be the problem to be honest. Weight of the gun is a big factor also, relative to how many shells you fire. Sorry, that may not be much help!

What speed are you loading them at now? As mentioned, reducing the speed will lower your recoil, both real and "felt". Is there any "other kind" of recoil except "felt". Sorry, I just had to add that. A lot of 1 oz loads are rated in the 1290 FPS "range" which I believe, gives about the same recoil as a 1 1/8 oz load at 1200 FPS. I mention that because it's assumed lowering the shot charge automatically reduces recoil. That's true at the same velocities, but increase them and the "whack" comes back. In the "old days", when you didn't have a hundred different types of powders and everyone shot the 1 1/8 load, "slower" powders like Green Dot were thought to have less "felt recoil" than a faster Red Dot. I believed it back then, but I don't now. Green Dot does, however, make the "core pattern" more dense. Or, try 7/8 loads in the 1200-1250 FPS for a really light load. Clays is a good powder for that, mainly because they have a fair amount of "loads" available. Good luck.

I'm cleaning them...I don't want to be the " dirty brass guy" and shame my fellow shooters.

I'd find out what the forcing cone length is first, since it's "generally accepted" that anything beyond 2 " is a "waste". How long are they now? And, it has to be done properly and polished well after you remove the chrome lining. IMHO, it's also a "questionable" modification on a modern gun barrel. I've had it done to one gun and couldn't tell the difference in "recoil", and I had a duplicate gun to compare with. Others say they can "feel" the difference...okay, it's not that expensive a modification anyway. The best argument for longer forcing cones is a better pattern, but I'm not convinced. Could be wrong though. For clay target shooters, that arguable discussion is on the same plane as religion and politics.

EricW, Thanks for the info. I'll look into them. Although I "knew" the answer, I was hoping for some replies like, " Yeah, I don't clean them and it doesn't damage the dies".

Well, if it destroys the dies, that's reason enough to clean. Too bad though!

I probably shouldn't ask this since I've been reloading a long time now...but! Sometimes I don't "plan" my brass cleaning well enough and I end up grabbing "dirty" brass, doesn't look that bad though, spray some One-shot on and load. Seems to load fine and works in the gun just fine also. So, I "should" clean the brass each time so I don't "scratch" or damage the dies? Is that the only reason I ( we) clean brass first?

Are all the primers still made of brass? Just wondering if they have been "sneaking" in steel instead!

Mistral404, You are right on their target loads. I was thinking more in line with the "economy" priced "stuff". Probably wouldn't have the accuracy of the expensive loads, but good enough for the "sports" and much reduced recoil.