MoRivera

I converted my Shadow 2 to SAO when I had one and ran it in Limited 10. I live in CT so I'm limited to 10 rounds anyway. I liked shooting that particular gun better that way in regards to trigger pull and position/length of pull (with an ArmoryCraft SAO trigger). But it could only be shot in minor, obviously, and I'm not fast/accurate enough to overcome that disadvantage. Put it back to stock and sold it, and now run a regular Shadow 1 in Production.

Here's a thread with a lot of info/discussion......

I meant Shadow slide, not frame. Can't edit that post now.

Those are definitely cool looking. But how are the cheek weld areas? They don't look much more than a bare tube.

Looks like wear from the hammer upon cycling, and you don't see it on the other side because of the relief cut.

I have mine zeroed at probably around 15-20 yards because nothing I've shot with the PCC so far has been any farther than that. Local IDPA. USPSA, steel or plates. I still have to remember to holdover a bit at close targets. What I'll probably do is make marks on my C-More by the elevation adjustment for between 10, 25, and 50 yards for zero so that I can adjust if needed.

Ah that makes more sense. I was starting to worry there was something wrong with my gun.

Wow....so the bullet is rising that much that early? I would have though the impacts would start lower and rise until about 20-25 yds.

I just sent a spare regular Shadow frame to be milled specifically for my Venom. With this I can switch it out on my Shadow for CO in IDPA and USPSA, but also on my longslide which I use for plates/steel.

Good idea.

Name the time and place, champ!

I just hope they make one with an optic-ready slide.

Oh, another thing in favor of going the Shadow route is....sights. The Shadow rear sight sits deeper into the frame than the regular 75B/SP01. Not that you can't get good aftermarket sights for a regular 75B, but I think there's a greater variety of 'target/competition' style sights for the Shadow cut. Or say if you really like your stock Shadow 2 sights and want to maintain that same picture/rear profile, you can even put the Shadow 2 sights on the Shadow I slide like I did in my AccuShadow above. Just something else to consider. I like on the Shadow with it sitting deeper in the frame, a big rear sight seems to blend in more with the rear frame's profile.

Pffff....Vogel...... I'd give him run for his money in a missing contest if you put a HiPoint in my hands.

Yeah, I've also tried a couple of 85C's, and they've been super nice right out of the box/stock. A factory nickel one in particular was a work of art. And like you, my AccuShadow's trigger when new was quite disappointing. This was supposed to be 'worked on' by CZ Custom and for the price I was nearly appalled. Probably should have returned its but I got a good price on it so I replaced and worked over the internals myself. Yet more incentive to build one.

Yeah a build would be fine unless you were looking to stay in Production, and then like mine it would have to be virtually identical to a Shadow in as many technical details as possible. As far as parts, yes I as well put an 85C trigger, Cajun springs/disconnector, extended pins, adjustable sear and interior polish in all my CZ's, and I liked the results much more than even when I bought my AccuShadow new. Probably end up saving some, but still approaching a base Shadow used. But it's also fun customizing your build. Momentary tangent again, but here's a a 'longside' that I put together, and shoot Limited in USPSA with.......

Have you checked the CZ Forum for used Shadows? I've seen several in there at different times. Sometimes more of the pricey AccuModels, but sometimes the basic ones too. You could always put a Wanted To Buy notice there too if you join up. https://czfirearms.us/index.php (and technically, it's someone else's Shadow ) Also, someone like Cajun Gun Works can slick up a regular 75B or Sp-01 (even the 'Tactical' models with decockers) to apparently feel as nice as a non-firing pin block Shadow too, and it would still be SSP-legal as the works would be internal and all visible parts are allowable. But by that time, the time and money spent may just be more than getting a Shadow and tuning it yourself. I still think that to best approximate your Shadow 2 (I had one a little while back), you'd be best off with a manual-safetied, non-firing-pin-block format. Do you have a price range that you would consider for a used Shadow?

Ah, yeah, probably not particularly lightweight...as it has some rubber to it as well. the ones I've tried don't seem heavy per se, but they certainly weren't like a the Mission First Minimalist.

Sounds about right, and yeah I would just say that it's a CZ Shadow and that would be the end of it. That's an honest, factual and demonstrable answer, and there's certainly nothing 'dishonest' about not sharing that I originally bought the frame as part of a used SP-01 (again, who knows if that even left the factory as an SP-01?) which isn't even part of the discussion. I guess if someone really wanted to dig, as I mentioned before....because it could be such technical (even pedantic) back-and-forth, in the interest of just keeping everything moving an official could probably just prohibit it out of lack of 'clarity' (created by them, mind you) and not wanting to waste more time about it. And then I'd have to protest, and I doubt either party would see much use in that possibility, when it's pretty obvious the the gun is just a Shadow. And agreed, the key term is 'competitive advantage', and in that case, it's still no different than any other Shadow out there which is allowed as a firearm by the rules. Had I disabled the firing pin block in an SP-01 slide as well, then there'd be no question about both 'improving' the trigger as well as making the gun less safe. And I also get that you don't want to leave the door open to a lot of interpretation within rules because you just blur the lines more and lead to more headaches. But at the same time, I think the CZ platform in question is pretty specific and unique from others, so in that respect there'd really be no basis for further questioning beyond 'It's a CZ Shadow' and maybe showing the internals. And I 'm not talking about making an exception for CZ's, I'm talking not lumping it in with actual/identifiable technical violations which are different than this. Just saying and showing that there is no firing pin block in a Shadow is 100% factual and honest, and as much info as would be relevant. And again, I will stand by the fact that since the frame is no longer part of a non-Shadow gun, nothing is disabled because the re-inclusion of a lifter arm would not be ENABLING anything. There is no firing pin block in the slide, there's no safety feature that would be enabled. And there is nothing to indicate that the lifter should be there in the frame, unlike the aforementioned Series 80 frame. Can't show that something that's not there or isn't supposed to be there is disabled. There's no evidence nor is there a mechanical contradiction that doesn't show it to be a Shadow slide just as the factory configures/assembles it. But as we've mentioned, it's moot, because the gun is a Shadow and can't be shown to be anything else. Even if there was a 'full disclosure' on all of this technical info, I believe that nothing has been disabled. But no need to fuel more interpretation/judgement arguments iff they serve no purpose beyond the initial relevant facts. That's really the point here in that if it did ever 'come up', it can't go any further than 'it's a CZ Shadow'...which I firmly believe is 100% honest, and in no way betrays, re-interprets or skirts the true function of that rule...there's nothing actually there to go on. It'd be just as likely to be asked about the name of my high school girlfriend.....like what the heck made you ask that, right? But if it somehow did, then I think there'd have to be something more dysfunctional going on than just the gear check. Either a judge would be looking to bust someone/anyone, or the shooter is being difficult, or a combination of both....and it most likely wouldn't be about the gun or rules anymore. Thankfully I'm usually on my best behavior at a match, so that hopefully removes part of equation. Appreciate the response.

Yes, Accu Shadow in ESP , but not SSP. But frankly, I would just go with whichever gun you shoot better. I prefer CZ's, but everyone's different.

I can miss any target with any gun, any trigger, and any load. Go 'head....dare me.

Also...should have mentioned this, but I also own an SP-01 Accu Shadow that I bought complete, and that I'd have handy as a backup if I ever shot a big national match anyway. So if anyone did have any issue with the regular Shadow....... ......I'd just take the slide off and put it on the AccuShadow's frame. Same thing. (can anyone identify which of the below frames is 'original' Shadow and which isn't...or none..or all?)

But see here's the key....nothing has been violated. The frame has not been changed, it's being installed around a sear OEM cage configuration that's appropriate for its slide. Nothing's been disabled unless you use it with a regular SP-01 slide which has had a firing pin block removed. The firing pin block plunger is the safety mechanism, and the Shadow has never had one. And again, you can't say it isn't because neither I or you have any way of knowing if the SP-01 I picked up used left the factory as an SP-01 or a Shadow either, as I no longer have the slide. I only acquired it second (or more) hand with an SP-01 slide and sear cage. Before you 'leave', please just answer this question: Presented with this very gun....what exactly could one point to in or out of this gun that shows anything being disabled? Like if you were a match official, what would you ask...and why? We've already demonstrated how a Series 80 1911 could be distinguished/identified from a Series 70...in a Sig P-series you could see if the decocker is still in place and look under the slide for the firing pin block safety, Glock/M&P/any striker gun on the bottom of the slide as well and look for the lifter tab on the trigger bar. What would you look for in a CZ Shadow? And yes I am shooting a Shadow because what specifically distinguishes a Shadow from a regular SP-01 is the slide (and not just what's written on it), and this slide did leave the factory as a Shadow slide. With gun in front of them, assembled or disassembled, there's no identifiable factory tell-tale feature that one could point to and say with certainty that the gun isn't a CZ75 SP-01 Shadow, and the burden of proof would be on them to do so. Which they can't, because technically and functionally/mechanically, it IS a Shadow....no splitting hairs about it, and every other Shadow in existence proves that I am in full compliance with the rules, because my gun's identical. It's certainly not an SP-01, is it? I seriously can't understand your problem with that, respectfully of course. I can only imagine that you're adding things in between the lines, which I can somewhat understand if one is being extra cautious. But if that's the case, there are probably a plethora of other things that one could scrutinize in anyone's setup. Again...how would it 'come up'? What is there to bring it up.....a sticker or something? They would have to specifically be looking for or notice something that functionally stands out from any other Shadow that they would personally inspect or look up. What is that thing, and why would they speculate over this gun as opposed to any other? Granted, again it would be hard to spot externally if a Series 80 had been 'converted' to a Series 70, but then you could identify that on the inside by an unused hole/slot in the frame.

I think the big concern, which has been alluded to, is that since this is such a technical and academic subject, judges/officials/etc. would likely be more apt to err on the side of caution in lieu of really understanding the CZ design on such a detailed level. It's less time consuming to just say no than to get into all the nitty gritty. So the 'danger', so to speak, is the possibility of that. Ain't the first time that CZ/CZ-customization has caused ripples, and I could see someone just not wanting to deal with it....prohibiting someone for the sake of just bringing such a pain in the ass issue into the mix. So yeah, proceed with caution.

Nope, not if you replace the sear cage assembly (which is separate from the frame) with one configured for a Shadow...same as the factory does, essentially. And there's no way of identifying whether or not a fully functional SP-01 was purchased as opposed to just the frame, or a nonfunctional one, etc. The actual frame shares the exact same features (and even markings) between SP-01 and Shadow. Heck, you could even keep the SP-01's sear cage around and show that the lifter is still in it, if so inclined. And I bought the SP-01 used...and the slide is long gone. I have no way of knowing if the former owner took the frame from a Shadow or purchased it stripped, inserted an SP-01 Sear cage, and attached an SP-01 slide to it. So how can anyone ask or prove with certainty that it didn't leave the factory as part of a Shadow if I can't? That last part being moot when all is said and done. Heck....look here on CZ Custom's own site..... https://czcustom.com/new-firearms/cz-pistols-custom/cz-75-parts-kit-frame.html Where someone would hypothetically raise eyebrows is if they visibly grind down the leg of the lifter in the sear cage and leave it in there. But if you replace the sear with a regular Shadow sear, or use a CGW spacer the sear cage is no longer an 75B/SP-01 cage (or just the whole sear cage assembly), it's one for an 85C or a Shadow...and no safety feature has been disabled since it's not supposed to be there in the first place. The frame has stayed the same. The entire gun is by definition a Shadow, and really, by the same reasoning of questioning this particular gun they'd have to question every other Shadow as well, and there'd be no demonstrable differences. Now....one could say the these are technicalities unique to the CZ75 (as opposed to a 1911), but nonetheless they are mechanically and functionally factual, and really if one would to scrutinize that it certainly wouldn't be in the actual 'spirit' of the rule, which is to prohibit the disabling of a safety feature that is supposed to be present in a given gun's factory configuration, the underlined being key. One cannot disable something that's not there to begin with. If a shooter has constructed a Shadow using the same OEM parts in the the same configuration/combination the manufacturer does, by any quantifiable measure it is the same gun, at least in this case.