MilkMyDuds

No need to be overly defensive, and no need to redefine terms (e.g. cannibalization, you can google it and it is a very common marketing term). We are all here to figure out the pros/cons, and other ways to grow the sport. I am sure over time the data will speak for themselves. I just quoted the first club match with PCC, and thought it is pretty revealing. Maybe it's not the common case across the country. We will see. As to the local match times, yes USPSA leadership do have control and impacts. It's not just a local thing. Adding more clubs, for example, or put in incentives for existing clubs to reuse same setup for different divisions (prod/limited for 4 hours in the morning, open/co/pcc for 4 hours in the afternoon). We all experience that smaller squad usually run much faster. 6 shooters per squad max with 3 squads rotating 6 stages - this probably can shorten match time significantly.

https://practiscore.com/results/1e9cc6a7-b16c-4e1d-b885-9a20617bb52c/matchPistol_Caliber_Carbine One of the local clubs had the first match that included PCC this weekend. 76 shooters. 7 PCC shooters. Out of the 7, 4 were shooting multiple guns. Only 2 were "new" participants in USPSA due to PCC. This is pretty much what many expected: 1. PCC will cannibalize and dilute existing divisions, much more than attracting new members. 2. People will shoot multiple guns, more than previously. Why? because it's fun! Heck, who has a PCC around would not try it? So match time is likely to increase. I am not sure how much extra overhead it will cause, but any increase in already long match time is bad in attracting new members. I hope Mr. Foley could invest some time/energy to figure out how to shorten typical local matches to <4 hours. That would have many folds of impacts in attracting new members, especially casual shooters who don't have 6-8 hour on a weekend day. To grow membership at this point of time, the "moderates" is the "blue ocean" we should go after, not the "hardcores" who either love or hate USPSA to death. I personally know many family guys who'd love to shoot USPSA except they cannot devote a full weekend day to matches. If it's a half day match, many of them would be able to join.

Did the stage break 180 at 10''?

Handguns, shot guns, rifles and airsoft. They are all different beasts and should have their own matches.

Wait till USPSA brings in airsoft division. That's when all goes kaput.

They say the desire of having universal background checks is to stop the private sales loophole, should have no impact on existing gun owners nor infringe on 2A. In reality, "innocent" desires often lead to "unexpected" consequences.

If the current avg target distance has been designed to measure points/second for handguns, I don't see how the same avg target distance will also be good to measure points/second for rifles. I am sure no one will complain at the beginning, but very soon rifle shooters will get bored with the close distance because the skill spread is too small once people master the basic gun handling part. To truly reflect the skill spread of PCC shooters, the avg target distance has to go up. I truly don't see another way around this.

If I understand this right, a large percentage (70% or more) of stages will have different start positions for PCC? Why is PCC so unique to justify this extra overhead? To me it seems logical to have its own stages or even matches. What about avg target distance? No one has said anything about this, probably because no one has shot PCC seriously on a typical USPSA stage. It's not unlikely people will start complaining about the targets being too close for rifles once the first wave of PCC gamers find themselves beaten by open or carry optic guys.

I kept seeing comments about 0 changes needed for PCC to play in USPSA matches. I don't think so. Maybe we should compile a list of potential impacts. I am all for PCC as long as it does not cannibalize existing divisions nor changes how pistol stages are designed today. 1. Longer average distance to targets? Would the rifle crowd be fine with some of the hosing stages? 2. No facing up-range start? So long - El Pres? 3. No pick up form a box and load? I suppose it's doable but I am not sure Any more?

My real fear is PCC will flurish at the cost of other divisions fizzling. It's something that has happened in the past and it's called canibalization. Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk

What did I just read Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk

Not very few. There are like 10 shooters just at the local club excited to shoot PCC. And heaven forbid we increase the fun at all! Even if there is no gain in membership, there is no loss for people not shooting PCC. Big effort? Seems pretty simple to add PCC since only a few things like up range starts have to be figured out. The key data point is how many of these 10 PCC shooters are new USPSA shooters, or existing members who would otherwise not show up.Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk Do you honestly think that people are going to stop coming to matches just because PCC is added as a division?No where did I made that claim or suggestion.I just want to figure out how much membership gain we are expecting by adding PCC? Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk

QQ - can PCC do single handed shooting? Is it considered safe for matches! Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk

It's important because I thought increasing participation is the metric that Mr. Foley uses for his presidentship. Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk

Not very few. There are like 10 shooters just at the local club excited to shoot PCC. And heaven forbid we increase the fun at all! Even if there is no gain in membership, there is no loss for people not shooting PCC. Big effort? Seems pretty simple to add PCC since only a few things like up range starts have to be figured out. The key data point is how many of these 10 PCC shooters are new USPSA shooters, or existing members who would otherwise not show up.Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk

If PCC can bring in 1% new members a year (about 250 or so), is it still worth it? I'd say 2-3% growth for adding a new division is the minimal to make sense.Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk

If the expectation is there won't be net membership gain, what is the point? Just for fun? That seems a rather big effort to just let very few existing members to have fun. Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk

I will hate seeing the "meta" of the stage significantly change due to the addition of rifles. Many targeted training and practice may go down the drain. It would make the once-a-year rule change in IDPA look good. I will shoot a match including PCC and decide. Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk

If growing the sport is that Mr. Foley has in mind, adding PCC only canibalizes the sport and disrupts the already established divisions. There is likely to be little to no net membership gain. Though the sample size is probably small, how many members here are not already USPSA members and plan to join USPSA because of PCC? Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk

I run 13# recoil spring and APEX striker spring on all 3 of my pro 5". 0 problems, and I run WSP only. I have tried 11# recoil spring before and it works 100% functionaly but did not feel right so I stick to 13#. Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk

What striker spring are you using? Sent from my GT-N7105 using Tapatalk

Golf is probably the closest sport to action pistols, though much more popular. I do believe if the sport becomes much more popular with a huge player base, there will be declaration and distinction between Am vs. Pro.

If you can shoot a production gun in limited and open, why not "Production Optics"?

I have 2 APEX CAEK installed by myself and 1 installed by APEX. The one with the most round count has reached about 20,000 with no issues at all. I did change the striker assembly every 10,000 rounds or so and the striker spring every 8,000 rounds or so, although I visually cannot tell the difference between the new one and the ones being replaced. Yours definitely looks abnormal to me. I'd suggest get a brand new striker assembly and see if that helps.

I wonder if the rule will require the optic to stay on the gun for the whole stage in order to be legit