OPENB

9,40,45 makes the most practical sense. While I'd like to shoot my M1 Carbine, my local club has an indoor range that won't allow magnum handgun or M1 Carbine, to prolong the life of the backstop. As far as it being a handgun caliber, there used to be a 45-70 revolver, but I don't think we want it in PCC. The biggest common Glock mag is the 33rd. mag. Maybe make that the maximum? 32rd. Colt, MP5, Uzi, & Sten mags are common. Should mags be carried at the belt or by other means?

You should probably wear your body armor, what with all the PCC shooters pointing at you and rounds going off and such. And we need to wear head gear and mouth pieces for your right hook. Nice. Please take a deep breath. If you get muzzled with any gun, what will happen is what always has happened. He will get DQ'd, you will be pissed, life will go on, assuming you don't get shot. What kind of gun it is matters not in the least.

Curious what Idaho statute covers a competitor accidently muzzling another competitor at a shooting competition? I can tell you in Ohio, there isn't one. Intent is the key. Unless you can prove someone purposefully pointed a gun at you, with the intent of making you believe he was going to shoot you, I don't see a prosecutor taking that case. Negligent assault would be if he recklessly pointed the gun at you, AND he then shot you. But if that happened, you have everyone's permission to punch him.

Ultimo, have you ever been muzzled at a pistol match? I have. Cops weren't called, no one was prosecuted, and no one resorted to physical violence, as I believe you are intimating with your last couple posts. If so, which did you do, call the cops or hand out "consequences"?

Depends how cruddy the ammo is. I finish up with 6-10 rds. of 223 to clear the gas tube.

CO is a USPSA term & division. Since the overwhelming majority of 3gun is outlaw or 3gun nation, I'd assume a CO type gun would be still open/unlimited or whatever they want to call it now.

Ah, the "H" word was used again. I think the tone of this thread had turned much more mental & less emotional. Let's keep it going that way. I admit I do see more of Ultimo & Teros' view, & I think Ultimo is maybe thinking this might not be all suck. Good.

No, I asked. I want an honest discourse. Doesn't mean we have to agree. Will you stop going to USPSA matches when the provo. PCC rules come out, in protest? Or will you go that far?

Besides a separate match, what would make you comfortable with PCC as a new division, top to bottom?

I guess "dead stick" isn't just Benning, it is moving through 3 gun. It was my first exposure to it.

I realize current USPSA rules prohibit handling gun yadayada. I'm I guess I'm coming from my experience in 3 gun, where we do as I suggested in post #473. I assume Marco has the same experience. It has worked well that way for many years, matches flow, and there is no heartburn, and I've never felt unsafe. Ultimo, I believe your concerns are we have rules against handling guns off the line, so why would we make an exception for PCC, correct? I would be willing to bag/unbag instead of using my 3 gun cart if the Provo. Rules say so. In my experience, which is mine alone, it isn't necessary. That's what I meant by "it will work out". What would having PCC-separate matches accomplish? is it so if we want to shoot ourselves, go right ahead? The current rules still say no gun handling off the line, so if there were separate matches, we'd still have to change the rules.

You guys would freak at the newest 3 gun concept of a slung rifle is a "dead stick." At the recent Ft. Benning 3 Gun, we started with a slung rifle, and shot the other 2 guns while crawling along a couple low ports, climbing over a wall, crawling under 35 ft. of barb wire and climbing into a Jeep. All the while the rifle was on our backs with the muzzle going every which way. At dinner, we discussed the "dead stick" concept, and most would have been more comfortable with it if the RO had actually checked the chambers prior to the start! Cmon, Kevin, don't give up so easily! The provo. rules aren't even out yet, This will work out. No to Timmy slung rifles, yes to chamber flags, yes to muzzle up at ULASC. If someone violates muzzle discipline, DQ him! This will require modifications to the rules to accommodate PCC handling and start positions, I think everyone realizes that.

I'm all for PCC, but do not want up range starts with it in the shooters hands. Disaster waiting to happen. Muzzle up or down to the line, shoot the stage, chamber flag & carry it back. Works all the time every time. We don't start facing up range with a gun in hand in 3gun.

Correct

Thankfully I have never seen one. Are they more likely when covering the ejection port with your hand and slowly racking the slide or when quickly ejecting it up into (hopefully) the air? All the ones I know of have been right handed shooters when they cant the ejection port up then rack the slide. If extractor tension is light the round falls off the extractor & down toward the ejector. Sometimes it can go off. To be fair, the ejector fires I'm familiar with were jam clearing, not ULASC, but the mechanics were the same.

News flash: some ROs are d**ks. Put a timer in their hand, & you have second coming right before your eyes. Not much you can do about it but say "yes sir, may I have another." Try not to let it get in your head & mess with your concentration, then he has really succeeded. I think some ROs forget they are there to safely assist the shooter thru the stage, within the rules. As to the flip & catch, I don't do it. I have seen several ejector fires, & it just isn't worth the risk to look cool. One was a blown up gun, & another needed a Careflight ride to remove shrapnel. But I'd never be a d**ck to someone that does it.

I have a PM9 too. I use Dawson 10rd. mags. It came with Checkmates that are supposed to be 9rd. mags, but I can get 10 in them, tightly. I sold some Wilson ETMs. But others love them. Trips are always highly regarded. I like the Dawson's cause they come with the right basepad to use with a magwell, out of the bag. All the others you will need to change the pad, unless you go with an S&A style maxwell. But most of those are steel, & you will have weight issues.

Huh? Are they going to reproduce? Please elaborate so that makes some sense.

Actually, USPSA never had a modified division. And, it does not exist in IPSC anymore.I was thinking we had modified back in the early 90s. Never saw anyone shooting it, so didn't miss it.

Not true. We used to have modified, it's gone now in USPSA. It still exists in IPSC.

I've had new shooters show up with a new Glock,Sig, M&P or whatever and ask what division they fit in. I tell them production but they can only load 10rds. "But it holds 17" they say. Well, load it full, but you'll be scored minor. I get the confused look from them. "What division is made for my new Glock 17 & mags just as it came from the gunshop?" None of them.

+1, I feel exactly.

I thought the same thing. I re read his post & didn't see where he tried to force anyone do anything. Lighten up Francis, it's just a discussion.

Shayne, a bunch of us were off Monday, but knew the range would be unbearable. We went for wings and a movie instead. I'll be there this week. Supposed to be mid 40s Mon. and Tues. Thanks, Gino. We were in Kona 2 years ago, wife ran the half marathon. The Big Island is really interesting. Big enough to drive over 40 MPH, every weather climate at the same time somewhere. A USPSA club would be the the ultimate. A friend honeymooned on Maui, and really recommends it. Can I add blocks to my hi caps to make them 10 rounders, or do they have to be actual 10 rd. mags?

I like that Nimitz! While I would enjoy PCC, I certainly understand the hesitancy of the MDs that have voiced there concerns, & respect their points of view. I guess we'll see what we see. I still have goals to meet with my handguns, so I'll be shooting something. Someone start a poll!