teros135

I said this was a "unique" situation in my post above in light of the really good safety record USPSA (and all of the shooting sports) has. Look at the Indiana Sectional last year. 338 competitors, 17 stages, 371 rounds *minimum*. In one match alone, that's 5746 separate runs and at least 125,398 rounds fired, without a shooting injury. How about the Nats? How about any local monthly match? I wonder if someone can tell us how many separate runs there were in all of the matches in 2013 or 2014, across the country? We have a very good record, and again this incident is rare. We should work to make it extinct.

There seems to be a cluster of missed opportunities, all stacked together to create this unique situation. With those white walls there should have been someone checking the stage (someone mentioned "sweeping"; that's a new term for me) the stage from back to front, who would have been the last one forward. Actually, I guess it should be done with a stage that complex, with or without white walls. I really don't get how the guy downrange was so oblivious that he didn't pay attention to the fact that there was a match going on. Or the range commands, or the sound of *nearby* shots. Or that the RO and/or shooter didn't notice *movement* downrange - that's usually more of a giveway than shape (and if the guy wasn't moving, why was he standing like a statue). Tunnel vision on the part of the shooter, maybe, but both of them? I say check the range from the back, every time, is a good idea. It doesn't use much time, and it adds another layer to our safety protocol. Caution, more caution, and even overcaution should be the rule.

This is a significant teaching moment. It's a rare occurrence (one stage in how many stages shot by how many shooters across the country each year?) but one we can prevent. I agree that see-through walls are the best for safety. We still have barrels (single, or stacked) and other visual obstacles that someone could be crouching behind, for whatever reason. Let's all go all the way back to basics when we RO. If we can't see every part of the stage (i.e., if it isn't just targets on sticks) we should stay downrange and be the last one back to the start line. That way the entire stage can be seen from behind, a better view than from the start position. In the long run time isn't the first priority, it's safety. (Safety, fairness, and efficiency, in that order...)

OP, what do *you* think? Why are you asking?

Agreed, we don't want to spend too much time worrying about it. Each person has to go with their own sense of honesty. Actually, I'd agree that there's a relatively minor difference between PFs of, say, 5 or so in felt recoil. I shot last year at 136 (as chrono'd at two matches), which worked better in that gun, and this year will be at 130 or so. (It's not making me a better shooter, it's the practice. ) For chrono, I just make sure I've worked up my loads, chrono'd them properly, and loaded them consistently (check charge throw and OAL regularly). Then go to the match and don't worry about it. They can take rounds from wherever, they'll all make PF.

Thanks, guys. You've taught us that it's easy to cheat the chrono (and apparently lots of people do?). Now we all know how to do it. Would have preferred a discussion about the value of doing it right, playing fair. Sheesh.

You'd think so, but than again USPSA just published a 2 page article on the subject Hmmm. I thought "The Chronoman Report" was a regular column in Front Sight. I like reading his stuff but don't agree with all of it. He dedicated two paragraphs to the issue of power factor in factory ammo (and WWB tends to run somewhat slow, as has been noted in other BE forums), and his main point was "don't trust anyone when it comes to the performance of your ammo in your gun ... Use a chronograph initially, and again when anything changes ... If you don't have a chronograph, get one! Can't afford one? Sure the expense with a friend or two or maybe the club you belong to has one or can get one for club use". He provides solutions, not just problems. I also noticed that he said "During my career running chronographs, I've come across several instances were factory ammo just didn't measure up". Two points from this. Chronographs aren't usually run in Level I (and aren't required, per the rules), so this has to be referring to higher-level matches, not locals. At Level II and up we can expect chronoing, and if we don't we aren't paying attention. Also, he said "several instances", which doesn't really sound like a tidal wave of Production shooters being sent to the showers (or the limbo of "shooting for fun"). I know that before my first Major I made darn sure my ammo was making PF, and even in Level I local matches when I run my M&P Shield I don't use WWB or FM reloads (which won't make Minor) but instead run Speer Lawman 147 gr or handloads that make 125.

Didn't the same issue of Front Sight also have a Equipment Survey at the 2014 Handgun Nationals that noted that 30% of Production shooters there used commercial ammo? Sounds like a fair number don't either need or want to reload. These are, of course, folks that have been around a bit and have gotten to the Nationals. About half use steel guns, half polymer (52% vs 48%). Most use heavier bullets. I know a number of folks that use commercial reloads/remanufactured such as Freedom Munitions, in all bullet weights, or reloads from a local shooter/reloader here. On the other hand, 16% of Limited shooters and 7% of open shooters use commercial ammo, which makes sense considering their equipment and focus.

Safety first, of course. The question here is what to do after stopping the shooter (or allowing the shooter to stop). Is it to be scored as it stands (including staying on the clock) or a required re-shoot? I think the discussion suggests that it might depend on the particular circumstances, and perhaps what type of match we're at. The higher the level and experience of the shooter, the more we should leave the outcome on the competitor's shoulders. At the end of the day we all have to be responsible for ourselves. It's the RO's job to maintain safety, structure, integrity, flow, and fairness - to all.

Blew this out of the water in a hurry! And you and this thread proved something quickly too, although it's been proven time and time again without fail. If someone has an opinion, idea, view point, gripe, or any other synonym that would generally lead to an open discussion, they must either be bitter, jealous, suck, lazy or all the above. The assertion that people are regularly attacked or dismissed for having any idea or opinion "that would generally lead to an open discussion" seems unwarranted. There are a lot of passionate discussions here on bEnos that lead to various parties changing their minds. But this one started off with the assertion that this issue represents "hypocricy" (and attacks Production, again), so it's reasonable to expect pushback. (Edited in an effort to be more logical and Spock-like)

No, it's not about a need to "fix" production. There's griping and whining going on regarding some aspect of all the divisions. Some people just seem to need to complain. Most of us would rather spend more of our time practicing and competing than complaining. We're all aware of the rules and can discuss them, as needed, with the match officials if something comes up. There's no "hypocracy" here - that's just an insult to the sport and all of those who participate in it honestly and with sportsmanship.

No, it's an ex-light, or "once was a light". Give it up, guys. It's been decided, and until it's rescinded it's good to go. Sounds like a lot of work, though. Why not just buy the weight?

Sarge, that was a pretty good imitation of Dr. Evil! (Either that, or an ostrich in great pain while passing a kidney stone...)

You might be in need of a trip to the range and blowing off a couple hundred rounds. You'll feel better. (Sorry, couldn't help it...)

Good post teros135. One correction, I am sure you meant this and just mis-wrote above =, one needs to be shooting perhaps 75% Alphas, NOT 75% of available points possible. Any shooter should be endeavoring to shoot 90 to 95% of available points possible. Yes, you're right. It's early here... Another resource is the USPSA match results, which have stats for individual shooters that show how we did on each stage, plus an analysis that includes the percent of total points shot, both with and without penalties. Very helpful. Take a look at the leaders (the GMs) - for instance, Lesgar Murdock shot 91% of possible points at very high speed at the Florida State Championshp. That's DVM!

"Old guys", don't forget the eyeglasses solutions to our vision problems. There are several threads about this on bEnos already. The problem is that we're looking through the distance portion of our glasses and can see the targets fine, but the front sight is blurry (usually VERY blurry). Basically, you need glasses that put the focal plane for your dominant eye ("shooting eye") just ahead of the front sight. This gives you a 90% clear front sight and ability to see the targets, as well. It isn't that hard to test it out, just go the the drugstore or WalMart and try out different powers of their "reader" glasses, over your regular glasses if necessary. Lower powers usually work, around +1 or +1.25 or so. See what you can see, both at arm's length plus and out to 20 yards or so. To test it at the distance of your sights (roughly), pick up some product and hold it at arm's length, with the top portion out in front of your hand, and see how it reads. (No need to scare the customers with your real gun!) If this works for you, talk to your eye doctor and get a prescription for glasses with single vision on the dominant side and your regular prescription on the other side. Now you have a shooting lens on the right (for most of us) and normal lens on the left, and you can shoot, see targets, load mags, and see score sheets. MUCH less expensive than an Open gun, either Glock with optic or STI race gun. OTOH, if you really want to shoot Open, you don't need the "old eyes" excuse (except perhaps for the wife!) - just go out and shoot it!

You asked about how to improve your scores. You improve your scores by improving your (1) basic shooting skills, (2) USPSA-specific shooting skills (movement, barriers, ports, plates, partial targets, uprange starts, etc.), and (3) stage planning. #1 includes all the fundamentals, so that's first. Bad shooting can't be overcome by speed, no matter what. Fast misses won't make it ("you can't miss fast enough to win"). When you're getting 75% of the available points at your own best speeds, then you can start working on competition shooting skills. Practice, practice, practice! Dry fire often, and shoot at the range. If you're not doing both, you're doing it wrong (to quote Ben Stoeger's 1st chapter of his Drills and Skills Book). Get instruction. You don't play golf or tennis without lessons, and it's no different here. I've taken a jump forward every time I've gotten connected with a good teacher (followed, of course, by intensive practice!). Shoot matches. Try to do better than YOU did last time, because that's the basic metric. Looking at you scores vs. others' is helpful in telling you how YOU'RE doing. At this point, as a beginner, you don't need to be spending so much time looking at numbers. The numbers are basically an indicator of how you are doing with your development, using the strategies above and those suggested by others here. You can compare yourself to others at your local match, but it's only useful if they're being consistent. I personally like using the combined results (Practiscore and combinedresults.com are helpful for USPSA matches), because I'm going to be at some percentage of the top shooter(s) there, regardless of what each of us is shooting. For instance, shooting in C class Production you might be at 50% of the top (GM) shooters in Production and 40% of an Open GM - that's fair and provides more comparisons. After all, we're doing the same stages, just at different skill levels and with different equipment. I don't mind comparing my progress against other Divisions, because it lets me know how I'm doing.\ And remember that, above all, this is fun! Relax (we shoot better relaxed), shoot, have fun. Go home and practice, come back again. Enjoy!

The OP quoted the IPSC rule (16.1) accurately. No Cerokote, Walmart spray paint, etc. Why? It's the rule... Also, "unless it's done by the OFM" doesn't sound like it applies. The rules state the "original" finish, so even the OFM can't do a custom finish job later, yes? The gun would have to have the finish offered by the OFM in the IPSC approved gun list.

Okay. It's only been a little while since his posting, and it'll be nice to hear from him. I'm sure he'll clarify.

True, but his MD and others seem to have said (and I apologize if I read their posts wrong) that what he said isn't true. Perhaps he was just trying to stir something up, and that's commonly referred to as trolling. I now have to question whether I can trust what he says, and I hate to lose that trust, 2700 posts or not.

There's a label for this type of scurrilous behavior - "trolling". It's sad, and completely unnecessary. And a fast way to a bad reputation. Who's going to believe him next time?

Nothing we have seems to suit you. Perhaps you should try something else. Perhaps croquet or ping pong.

That's real helpful. Reminds one of the saying in politics that if you don't vote, don't complain.

Gotta get me one of those. I guess it would work in all divisions, so I'd only need one. Of course, all of us being GMs would take all the fun out of it...

I have that system also. Problem is, you still have to aim the darn thing and pull the trigger properly!