teros135

They may be "competitive" but they also seem to want to have it all their way. "If I can't have what I want I'm going home". So go. You can't please everyone. Like the knucklehead at a recent match who ran around with his finger on the trigger, including reloads, movement, ULSC, etc and got all huffy that we actually want to have safety rules. He said he shoots all kinds of other sports and they *all* allow finger, all the time. He stayed for a bit (his friend was shooting) and kept complaining that he was DQd for a "trivial" offense. Bet he won't come back - and we won't miss him (unless he somehow shapes up, then of course we'll welcome him back).

And that's not about the Production 10-round mag limit. It's about someone forgetting about telling them to simply shoot Limited. Just about no off-the-street shooter is going to be "competitive" in this complex sport right out of the box anyway, so shoot Limited (or Open, for the gung-ho "carry optics" owner) and have fun. If they like the sport and don't have enough mags, they'll buy more. (This whole "it's unfair to ask someone to buy mags" argument is getting really thin. If you can't/won't purchase a few relatively inexpensive mags, I can't imagine being able/willing to afford the gun and ammo.) Let's give this a rest, folks. Like d_striker said, It ain't gonna happen, so why keep pecking at it?

Only if he'll respond to you. I've emailed him a couple of times, no reply, bought elsewhere. Maybe he's reeeeealy busy...

You bring a "weapon" to a USPSA match? Sounds very serious. I usually bring a gun... Edit: Never mind.

Ooops! (Sorry ... couldn't help myself!)

What do you mean by "make it fair"?

Troy, thanks for your input on this one. Here on BE we do so much cogitating, guessing, fantasizing, and assuming that we can pretty much muck up anything. I'll take your post to our club and let them know how this one was shot at Nationals. Hopefully the WSB can be clarified, too.

Liar or cheater - either way, no credibility. Please stop fooling with us.

You could check out the Production approved gun list on the USPSA web site (uspsa.org) and choose a heavier gun in 9mm. But that might be an issue because it's, well, heavier. OTOH, it could be that the physical stresses of carrying, quickly drawing, manipulating, swinging, firing, reloading, and moving about with a heavy metal object that recoils every time you shoot it might be a bit much for your physical condition.

I agree with George, at least about "set them up as shown and shoot them as written", and about communicating with USPSA HQ to get something changed if we don't feel it's right. Otherwise, it's just do-as-we-wish, "interpret" how a classifier/rule/standard "should" have been written, and change the stage or rules to suit ourselves and then complain about it here. Do something constructive about it! In the mean time, we need to keep the classifiers the same for everyone, as the classifier system was intended. BTW, I would support changing Roscoe Rattle's instructions to "either order" for String 2, unless HQ has a specific reason it was written the way it is. (And apparently it's been run the way it is for the two or so years it's been used, starting at 2012 Nationals, I believe.).

Yep. "Don't feed the trolls."

Here we go again...

Bayou is also pretty smoke-free with TG, in both 9mm and .40 major/minor. They also come in several colors now. BBI are good bullets also. Mainly a personal preference, at this point.

Agreed. It's been hashed and bashed pretty much until its flat as a pancake. Let's move on.

Well that makes sense. So in that case 13-04 procedure was written this way intentially? So a lefty has a slight disadvantage, because if he turns to his gun side he has a further swing to T1, and if he turns to his weak side he has to turn farther to T1 than a right handed shooter? Any of us can have some type of "disadvantage" in one stage or another. I don't shoot left side of barricades well, but leftys may have an advantage there. There was a stage at a Level II in September that required two head-box shots around a wall on the left side, requiring leaning inward, and that was a bear for right-handers but likely easier for the leftys. Gotta practice everything, and the disadvantages start to diminish.

No, you shoot T1-T3 and T4-T6, respectively, in any order. There's nothing to say it has to be some particular order, just shoot the three targets in each group, from their respective boxes. If no particular order is specified, you choose the order. All classifiers and stages are that way. In the Roscoe Rattle, on the other hand, the order is specified, and it's hard to justify changing the order just to satisfy someone's sense of rightness. If we think it should be changed, contact NROI/USPSA, but we shouldn't change it ourselves, because then everyone's going to be shooting it differently, and that's not fair. We don't get to second-guess the Classifier rules, or the rule book. Same for everyone is what fair is about.

no mate. the reloading devices they are talking about are seperate to the gun. they mean magazines or speedloaders. and if you want to be technical a magazine release button has nothing to do with REloading. it's an UNloading device. it does nothing to get more bullets into a gun... it can only get some out, or (in normal use) release the now empty reloading device... Don't get him going again. This has been beaten to death, and we're in a no-trolling zone.

I'll mention it again - for the "older" set, try a pair of $7 Walmart readers, +1.0 or +1.25 power. Wear them either alone or with your regular Rx spectacles or contacts. Makes the front sight at least 90% sharp and the targets still visible (including holes). A guy turned me on to this and I can see my sights without having to tilt my head back to get into the trifocal area of the glasses. Wonderful - and a lot less expensive than a $2000 PO setup above, lets me keep my current gun.

So where are all the people who are clamoring to actually shoot them at USPSA? I don't see them here, in three different clubs... I'm also having trouble with the idea that only people with high-dollar slick custom guns can shoot Open, let alone be "competitive". I guess it's the word "competitive". Competitive with whom? With the GM crowd? None of us "regular" folks are competitive with them, regardless of equipment. That's why there are classes. I classified in Open with my polymer production gun, using hicap mags, and am in the same class as Production. I'm no hero, just trying to shoot my best. If a full-race gun would put me in GM (hah!) then I would play at that level, but it won't (and that's a relief).

This wasn't a regular stage - the entire match was an end-of-season sort of "monster match". Round counts were generally above the standard max of 32. The match was run generally by USPSA rules in terms of stage setup and safety. The red plastic blocks were some sort of self-healing polymer that allowed the bullet to pass through but not get all torn up. No chance of ricochet, not wood or steel. It was a great match, lots of fun despite the 38 degree weather, and a fine way to end the season!

See post #21...

It's not every day you see a Troll admit he was trolling...

If the "crew" complains for varying or using the delay, just quote them the rule number, tell them to look it up and READ the rule. Or, you could say "Are you ready? Stand byyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyybeep!" That'll satisfy both the delay and their need for a short beep. <grin>

Well, you can't reload without using your hands, either! Are they "reloading devices"? C'mon - mags, speedloaders, and moon clips are "reloading devices". Everything else is part of the gun, or your body, yes?

Attention?