bigbrowndog

excellent, I will probably have a few more Texans for next year. Trapr

co-exprs I'm not real good at subtle hints so if I don't want a target at a match, I'll tell you straight up. While I don't like the target (spinner) for reasons previously stated, I don't have an issue shooting them and dealing with problem, provided the proper steps are taken to ensure reliability. I would categorize PPSG and HPSC and a lot of the other PSG matches as regional matches and not true major's, as such a bit of leeway in stage design and target useage is given, because lets face it we're trying to make this stuff FUN first, and truly competitive second. When a match reaches what I consider true MAJOR status, it has proven the test of time, and shooter scrutiny and so it owes it to the shooter to eliminate as much cloudy gray shady area as possible. So that scores can be based on pure skill, and to a lesser extent on luck of the draw, direction of the wind, time of the day, type stuff. Some MAJORS still try and use carnival type stuff for stages and sometimes it works and sometimes it bites them in the arse, or the stage gets gamed so bad they wind up throwing it out for various reasons. The target itself is a great training aid, but IMHO it does not belong in a quality, fair, competitive shooting environment. The way its being used most of the time its just too easy for it to be inconsistent. Which is why I was trying to see if there is some way to make it easily consistent or calibrateable (not sure thats a word) for match use. One of the definitions of SKILL, is that its something that requires experience and expertise. They put a monkey and a dog in space it doesn't mean that from that experience, they're now Astronauts!!! Trapr

Ok we seem to have gotten off topic, I wasn't asking if you liked the target or not. The question is how can it be "calibrated" or rendered more consistent. Brian the steps you take for a spinner in a match are to be commended, this is the type of forethought and behavior that a good RM/MD has. I would like to think that others do the same, after speaking with MarkP, I think he does an admirable job as well. But perhaps WE can all learn something from each others methods and take steps to keep the target more consistent in operation. As for USPSA and non-USPSA, I think that division is crap!!!! its about making things as fair as we can for ALL competitors, I'm not talking about wind, and sunlight and rain, I'm talking about doing what we can, instead of being LAZY and COMPLACENT, and saying well it worked fine yesterday, or its the same for everybody when its not!!!! If you say its the same for everybody, how do you KNOW, did you develop a standardized method to check operation???? As for the comparison to a clamshell or drop turner, if wind is the thing that causes the change your right "deal with it" but if its lack of lubrication or a bent rod or grime in the mechanism then thats on the RO's and RM and MD to rectify. Personally I feel we should not have targets in a major match that cannot be arbitrated or looked at to judge proper scoring. Yeah this is a game, but there are still rules and in the end IT IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO. Trapr

I don't know what it should take??? I'm just suggesting that 2 shots would fit the current methodology, given that there are 2 plates. If its 2 shots with 1.5oz 4dram ammo then state that in the rules and match descrip. so that people know PRIOR to signing up, or at least when they read the match requirements ( yeah. like people read) but there should be some kind of means to calibrate it as fairly as possible during a match to ensure even and consistent operation for all competitors. there are enough things going on that MD/RM's cannot or "choose not" to do to ensure fair play, lets try and not add to the list. Trapr

So you DO calibrate it!!!! thats fine, but in my opinion 4 shots with "normal ammo" is too much, for SG. Which is why when MD write rules about calibration ammo for targets they have always used 1oz loads, I do not recall ever reading anything heavier. 2 shots should be the requirement as there are 2 plates. I agree that you need to get your pattern centered on the target, it does make a difference and I to have seen others place half a pattern and then whine. but then I have seen others whine about a no shoot target being impossible to not hit when engaging a shoot target, at matches that I MD/RM, ALL of the shotgun targets are proofed with Cyl. bore and 1oz loads, if a shooter complains then I shoot the target in front of them to prove it to them. A lot of people do not call for calibration because they assume it can't or won't be done, thats their fault. A shooter should always ask for the RM if a question on a target develops during a match. I also think that if its used as a pistol or rifle target, then yes the match should state the minimum rounds needed to spin the target with the standard pistol and rifle calibration ammo, but then they also need to be prepared to do so on command or request for calibration. Stlhead, the bolts and level pivot are my points, I have seen the bar become unlevel during a stage and have to call it to the RO's attention. They should be on top of those things. So if they aren't noticing something that is plainly visible, are they really checking bolt tightness?? How many times have shooters just chalked up the inability to spin it to poor marksmanship, instead of going and looking at the target??? Heck most everyone on this topic has decided all the issues is due to poor marksmanship already!!!!! Trapr Mark, I actually had no issues with the spinners used in Pikes Peak, however I did see several people struggle and it became a discussion point with my fellow travelers on the ride home. Other than the adjustment that was made to the one I pointed out to you, I never saw anything else done to them, but that adjustment had to be made and how do we KNOW that it didn't affect anybody???? we assume it didn't but do we really KNOW?????

you make a good point Stlhead, however you also make the point that they require no MORE attention to operation than plate racks and poppers, which do get checked for operation everytime they get reset!!!! albeit rather nonchalantly, but they do get checked. how often do you thing the spinner gets looked at????????? Also a shooter can call for calibration of all those other steel targets, the topic is how do we or should we go about calibrating this one. I agree that there are lots of other targets that we shoot at that cannot be called back for calibration, I don't particularly care for those in a MAJOR match either, so rather than get to the place with this one that we are with those, maybe we can come up with something that MD/RM's can use. For what its worth, we the shooters came up with a lot of the innovations that are thought of as normal operating procedure by the shooters that have just gotten into the sport. Trapr

point I'm trying to make is that every target we shoot at is designed to do whatever its supposed to do fall, swing, pivot, drop whatever with ONE shot! and typically they are "calibrated" to do that with the same ammo as every other target in the match, WHY should this one be different??????????????? Trapr

Me personally and quite a few other well experienced shooters as well, believe that this target really has no need to be in a multigun match, except as a side event. The reasons are that it is a hard target to keep consistent in operation throughout a match, dust, lead fragments, stand position, lubrication needs and pivot bar orientation all seem to affect the consistent operation of this particular target. Now, pretty much every steel target gets "calibrated" per se in a good major match, poppers and such obviously get done per USPSA rules, plates for SG should be shot with the designated calibration SG and ammo that should be listed in the rules, to ensure that they fall and in the case of being next to a no shoot that the shot is doable without incurring the no shoot penalty. Every target that gets calibrated is done so with ONE shot, not multiple shots. How could we "calibrate" the spinner???? There are two separate plates on the target, so it could be reasonable to assume that the target should be able to be spun with one hit on each plate???? but it should be using the choke, gun and ammo used to "calibrate" all the other SG targets????? from the closest distance a competitor can legally and safely engage the target. This would typically mean 2 shots from walmart 1oz loads, or any other 3 dram 1oz load. This would still allow shooters to use special loads to get the target to spin with one shot, but would minimize the advantage over those that do not have the luxury of buying it, or finding it. Especially if we are going to allow competitors to use a 20ga.!!! Trapr

I do run lube on the outside of the magtube to help the big spring reduce friction, I really cannot understand why a gun runs worse with lube than it does without????????? but hey, there are plenty of things I don't understand. trapr

I watched a guy have issues with his 1301 at pikes peak sg, the other day, however mine ran everything from 3" 1.75oz turkey loads to 1oz slugs at 1100fps, it also has not been cleaned in 400-500 rounds, but it has been lubed well. The secret should really not be a secret, Kurt and I start all of our classes with this little tidbit,..............................OIL!!!!!!! and not the thin stuff that some companies try to pass off as "gun oil", but something along the lines of ATF or synthetic motor oil. Many many people simply do not maintain their guns like they should, and then cuss them when they don't work or fail at inopportune times, well thats YOUR fault not the guns. Feed it good ammo, and keep it lubed, especially if you can't keep it clean!!!!! Trapr

I just woke up after a nice 13hour drive home yesterday, which really gives you time to reflect on what I did wrong and what I did right at the match, and what I liked about the match. For a first time match the target presentation and use of a good variety of targets was excellent. The flow of the match was very good, we really thought we'd be there till 5 or 6pm shooting, and it would be a rough day, but the stages used were either by design or just happenstance very well laid out and an excellent mix of challenges. While I'm sure there were things they learned not to do or to try and do next time the overall feel of the match from the shooters standpoint was that everything ran smoothly. I would highly recommend this match for both the experienced shooter and beginner, they made it so that everyone could perform the tasks asked of them, the better shooters would just do it faster (hopefully) and with less penalties. Nothing was too much or asked the shooter to try something that should have been out of their comfort range. Lately people seem to feel that after putting on a good match the next one needs to be bigger and harder in order to make it "better". You all put together a "shooting" match,......If the staff of this match just keeps with the theme of this years event, next years match will be a terrific event. I look forward to coming back, ....................RO's, MD,RM's you guys and girls did a great job. Trapr

When i read the OP, I interpreted it as shooting the match for "score and prize" as well as a "not a local". that said I also agree with EricM, and have done it at every match I have been part of mgmt. Stages must be proofed, this entails shooting and reshooting if need be, however never for score and sometimes not all the stages, after years of holding and helping with stages and matches I can get a sense of what parts need proofing and just do those parts instead of shooting the entire stage. proofing stages is a must, and having the ability to use experienced and inexperienced shooters is by far the best way. Trapr

Brian, typically if you are really truly concerned with giving a quality match and you are up to your neck involved with the running of it, you will not shoot to your normal potential. For me, thats aggravating, and consequently does not make for an enjoyable experience. You either shoot the match early so under different conditions??? or with the RO's and you can't really manage all the issues that creep up, and shoot focused on what you want to or need to, or you shoot during the match and then you really can't focus. For me the enjoyable part is having everything flow well, no back ups, and people come up and thank you you or make favorable comments. When I'm shooting a match, thats what I'm doing is shooting and nothing else, i'm giving that my FULL concentration.. When i'm management of a match thats what I"m doing managing, and giving that my full concentration. Besides, if you do happen to shoot well, HONESTLY,.... how then do you mitigate all the innuendos, without damaging what you should have been focused on to begin with?????? Putting on a good match!!!!! Trapr

buck is a pain to tape, which is why the IPSC method of using an 8.5x11 sheet of paper is great, you shoot it and staple a new target up. no pasting!!!! there is even an "A" zone on it (A4 target) and 500 sheets of paper is cheap. the target you staple to is irrelevant hits on it don't count. you can incorporate paper into the stage and require best 2 hits to score, shooter can decide whether 2 slugs or two buckshot pellets is easier for them, just don't allow birdshot!! Trapr

I shoot 150/155's at 2700 for everything, better bullets for long range and cheaper bullets for inside 100yds. I've played with 125/130's, but they require more powder and powder is getting harder to find these days. Trapr

its the same issue we see with people saying "they need" to have the bolt on a shotgun shaved!!!! most people, shooters will not or cannot tell a difference in the recoil impulse. This is not to say that there isn't one, just that it can take a lot of attention to whats actually going on to be able to feel or tell the difference.........whether or not there is a benefit is is purely a personal or mental perception. There is recip. mass, there is blast, there is shove to the shoulder, there is a lot going on. and a lot of what you perceive depends on what you are most used to and what you personally like or dislike, as to the actual gas setting, do we really know how precise or inprecise that amount of flow is????? NO!!! It was explained to me by someone that knows AR's better than me and has been doing it for years longer than me, with regards to an adjustable gas block, and how to actually utilize it or prep it for what we do. the reply was quite simple......................We need our guns to work!!! not work most of the time, but, all of the time. So while we don't want over gassed guns, we really don't want undergassed guns. So we set them to work and then give it a bit more for insurance and peace of mind. BTW, the answer was from someone that makes one of the earliest adjustable gas blocks, and has for years. Trapr

throwing one head shot on an array of 3 or more targets and calling the shot, at 30-50yds. shooting 1" dots on an ipsc target, 6 to 8 dots per target, place the dots in a clock type configuration 12,3,6,9,ish type, have a friend tell you which pairs to shoot as the buzzer goes off, from 15-25yds, accept only those shots that are within 1/2" of the dot or less. it works on speed, accuracy, transitions, memory, and does wonders for getting you used to working with your sight offset. Trapr

"new weakhand load" is out there for all you guys thinking about hand size!!! .....................grab 6. Trapr

when you use chokes so close in restriction you really do not GAIN any benefit, except mentally perceived. going every other one gives you a definite benefit that you can see and apply. IC-M, or Cyl-LM, or LM-IM those are good chokes differences, having a complete set and trying to decide between IC and LM, or Cyl and L Sk, is really not worth the effort when dealing with shot. Trapr

for what its worth!!! I ran a stock follower for years and years, without any issues or need for an aftermarket one. Nordic (Ken) sent me one of the new followers, maybe two can't remember, i have not had any issues regarding the new follower. Stompbox is correct the follower issues will only take effect when the magtube is empty, otherwise the gun doesn't know it has the wrong follower, just that there are shells in the gun waiting to be shot!!! My guess is improper timing of the action bars, wrong action bars, bars on the wrong side, or possibly too much material removed from trigger group and it has lost its structural integrity. trapr

I keep them loose, in the fore end if thats what you're refering to. On the SN, they tend to be a bit snugger in the action than on the nova. which makes the nova easier to get more effortless in the stroke. its also the reason I prefer the nova over the SN, it requires less work to make it easier to use. typically every SN/Nova (any shotgun really) i've had sent to me for work, is filthy!!!!! the action bars are sliding in grooves packed with carbon,dirt,dust, and other crap. clean them out, keep a good oil in the grooves, synthetic motor oil works great, auto transmission fluid also, the really light stuff that companies seem to market as "gun oil" is crap, its too light. you can also sand, file, polish the bars long edges they are a stamped metal part and have very rough edges. trapr

keith, I have had the same locking issues every time I use "foreign" ammo, so every time I bring my nova over for ipsc events. It is very frustrating, I know!!! but it only happens when I use "low quality" ammo, or commonly available ammo. If I purchase good quality ammo, it does not happen??????? i can only think it has to do with the quality control used or lacking in cheaper ammo. It has happened on guns that have the "arvid grind" and those that do not,...so I don't believe that is the real problem. As for the ammo coming out of the magtube in an untimely manner, double check you action rods and make sure they are in the correct sides, and that they are the correct rods??? sometimes we do stupid stuff accidentally and don't realize it. trust me I've done stuff that I swear Darby must have done when I wasn't looking. For what its worth, I became so frustrated with my #1 RNT Nova SS, after World SG, I stopped shooting it, I shot it a few months back and ran just fine, so thats what makes me think the action locking is ammo related. I was using Lyalvale and it gave me issues, some Fiocchi, and some S&B. but whenever I used gamebore clear pigeon or winchester AA or remington STS or other top quality ammo,........no issues?????? who knows

or you could just post pics of yourself half naked in a bikini, or bra and undies. and get someone to mention you to a sponsor. BTW, apparently doesn't require a long or experienced shooting career, but you should probably appeal to the masses and not look revolting in the aforementioned clothing. Also Jesse was a relatively "new" shooter with little big match experience or high placement when his name was first mentioned as a potential source for a sponsor looking for shooters. So you never know who is out there dropping names to sponsors looking for shooters, RNT actually gets asked this more than once a year.

nice video, however your first technique, "weakhand loading" is being described incorrectly and lists some things as being important when they are really not?? keeping the shells flat in your hand, not important, keeping the lifter depressed with your thumb while loading, not important, keeping the gun tucked under your arm, in the arm pit, NO. requires practice, most certainly!!! Trapr

dep 44, you're measuring the wrong thing, when NC says its too long they are refering to the measurement from the step to the nose not the entire overall length!! the OAL doesn't affect anything but the mag capacity. Flannigun, in your pics its quite obvious that the follower is sitting way too far back in the magtube, with what you are calling the "stock" follower, the one you picure is NOT a stock Nova/SN follower, it may be a Benelli but not a Nova/SN!!! As for changing out the follower on a Nova/SN, there really is no good reason except you lost the stock one or its damaged. As for the Arvid grind, I've never seen one affect the feeding of the gun, but then I've never seen the benefit of the mod either, at least in a competition. I've done it, to a couple guns, but never had a use for it after having done it.